SpaceX Starlink Coming to RVs

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Seems a bit expensive on the surface but for folks in rural areas where NOTHING is available, they won't blink at $500 for the equipment.

I live in a rural area of PA and we have nothing at my location. No cable, no dial-up service and very limited cell service. I wound up putting in a $4k self-supporting 100' tower on my property along with over $2k worth of AirFiber equipment to have internet. One does what one has to do.

I didn’t know PA had such rural locations. It was like that here in the Sierra foothills, then a year ago AT&T put up a tower. Now we are streaming too. They sell a $50. Month unlimited service. When traveling I-use a Mofi with an extendable pole and a yagi. Also tether from the phones up to 30g per month each. I don’t even come close to using that much. I go camping for the scenery and exploring.

[jenandjon]

They are just doing this so they can track the micro chip they implanted in you with your covid shot. LOL

[aceinspp]

This is all fine and dandy for the folks that just have to have some sort of tv or what ever. When I'm camping I go to relax and out doors most of the time anyway. I'll pass on this not worth it for me. Later RJD

[jenandjon]

Originally Posted by aceinspp

This is all fine and dandy for the folks that just have to have some sort of tv or what ever. When I'm camping I go to relax and out doors most of the time anyway. I'll pass on this not worth it for me. Later RJD

I dont care about internet so much. But I do like to catch the local news. I got a tailgater for that. But really some of the time I dont use it either. The radio does just fine.

[SeabrooksFam]

Originally Posted by robo44

Currently, this isn’t a good option for RVers who travel. If you can get it, and that’s an if as it’s only available in certain geographic regions and mostly rural areas, it’s geofenced to one specific address or location. Also, currently, they only have a fraction of the planned number of satellites launched, so any obstruction in the sky like trees can dramatically affect it. USD cost is $499 plus tax and shipping and $99 a month. Ummm few years before this is a on the road for RV mobile use.. I will wait

We know all of that. This is specifically for mobile to include RVs. Please read the OP.

[SeabrooksFam]

This of you posting negative posts, please stay away. It's obvious before you post that this post isn't for you. Some people work while they are out "camping". So, if this post isn't for you, move on and don't try and rack up post counts on my thread. I don't mean to be an arse, but it gets a bit annoying.

[Theo]

We're still a ways out before Starlink Mobile becomes a reality. SpaceX just filed the paperwork for permission from the FCC. Who knows how long THAT will take!

I think the most interesting news about Starlink Mobile I have heard is that they plan to retain the same Dishy McFlatface (antenna). To me, that means an 18" diameter "Tailgater" dome with on or off vehicle mounting schemes.

A good source for info about mobile connectivity is the Mobile Internet Resource Center. Here's their take on Starlink Mobile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEsPOdUnmEk&t=808s

[5picker]

Originally Posted by SeabrooksFam

This of you posting negative posts, please stay away. It's obvious before you post that this post isn't for you. Some people work while they are out "camping". So, if this post isn't for you, move on and don't try and rack up post counts on my thread. I don't mean to be an arse, but it gets a bit annoying.

Welcome to the world of public internet forums.

When posting on a public forum, you don't get to set the rules.

You'd be wise to let posts that don't suit you, slide off like water on a duck's back.

[BriaBeck]

I'm interested in the Starlink Mobile system too, especially if they have a "pay as you need" option available.


My biggest question is how will the signal propagate through tree cover, etc. Or, do you have to have a clear view of the sky. If that is the case, it will be of limited use for a lot of RV'ers, I would think. It would be for us, as most of the State Parks we camp in are under tree cover.


Does anyone know how it will perform under trees?

[Theo]

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

I'm interested in the Starlink Mobile system too, especially if they have a "pay as you need" option available.

I doubt that will come about in the foreseeable future. But who knows years from now! This is not the Dish business model.

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

My biggest question is how will the signal propagate through tree cover, etc. Or, do you have to have a clear view of the sky.

Obstructions like trees, buildings DO affect the Starlink signal. Of course, this is exacerbated by how (relatively) few satellites are in the Starlink constellation right now. However, even with a built-out constellation, you will still need a clear view of a portion of the sky; how much of a view is not known yet. Right now, its the northernmost portion of the sky but that will expand with the constellation's build-out. This is why I hope that the mobile antenna (which MUST BE professionally installed, BTW) can have some kind of tripod mount option with a 100-ft cable.
_________

I found what Chris Dunphy (in the previously posted video) said about changing locations to be interesting. Right now you can move your Dishy to a new street address with Starlink's approval; the engineers just assign you to a new coverage "cell". That this may become a self-serve process is intriguing! However, I read elsewhere that Starlink needs an actual valid street address, so...not like: "Site 25, Fishing Bridge RV Park, Yellowstone NP, WY".

[5picker]

Yes, you will need a pretty much unobstructed view of the sky to get satellite internet.
The frequency at which the satellites transmit back to the earth won't penetrate trees and buildings.

As for Starlink needing a physical address... they need that to report to the FCC (during Starlink's infancy) that their system is working and to what degree. That was part of the agreement for the FCC to give them the frequency space. Starlink has to prove their system is working and where.

[jcliftonm]

Originally Posted by robo44

Currently, this isn’t a good option for RVers who travel. If you can get it, and that’s an if as it’s only available in certain geographic regions and mostly rural areas, it’s geofenced to one specific address or location. Also, currently, they only have a fraction of the planned number of satellites launched, so any obstruction in the sky like trees can dramatically affect it. USD cost is $499 plus tax and shipping and $99 a month. Ummm few years before this is a on the road for RV mobile use.. I will wait

I looked into this as an option and found the same info provided by StarLink: the use is tied to one location. Makes sense. The satellites are constantly moving so service has to be handed off from one satellite to another as they bear on the very specific location, which takes into account local topography (e.g., mountains). Currently, coverage is beta for above the 45th parallel, and "short periods of zero connection" are to be expected.

Given their approach to being serviced by a single satellite at any given time, this is not intended or able to be used for mobile applications.

[desuhu]

QUOTE=latner;2514835]What's it going to cost?[/QUOTE]
It is going to be pricey. I've heard $100/mo, plus $300 for the equipment for home service.

[Camp20144]

[QUOTE=Theo;2518604]I doubt that will come about in the foreseeable future. But who knows years from now! This is not the Dish business model.


Obstructions like trees, buildings DO affect the Starlink signal. Of course, this is exacerbated by how (relatively) few satellites are in the Starlink constellation right now. However, even with a built-out constellation, you will still need a clear view of a portion of the sky; how much of a view is not known yet. Right now, its the northernmost portion of the sky but that will expand with the constellation's build-out. This is why I hope that the mobile antenna (which MUST BE professionally installed, BTW) can have some kind of tripod mount option with a 100-ft cable.

I haven’t seen any mobile mounting info - but I haven’t looked to hard. I did just look at starlink website though, didn’t see it there, must have missed it. I saw that they just ship you the beta home version with mounting tripod. Starlink FAQ says if you find you need roof mount you order the roof mount from your Starlink account page. Looks like home based is all “do it yourself”. If the mobile antenna “MUST BE” professionally installed I don’t see how they are going to let you “remove” it to mount it on a tripod. Must be a Macgyver situation They must not want UFOs launching off RV roofs I’m hoping to get double use out of the mobile unit - camping and at home, so I would rather not mount mine to the roof of my RV. Also I’m allergic to holes in my RV roof. Not sure why you wouldn’t just use the “home unit” tripod. I think Elon texted they will use the same antenna, it’s probably just getting sky coverage and “Permission” from the gov gods.

Tree coverage is a problem. I experience that at home as well as camping.

[SeabrooksFam]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Yes, you will need a pretty much unobstructed view of the sky to get satellite internet.
The frequency at which the satellites transmit back to the earth won't penetrate trees and buildings.

As for Starlink needing a physical address... they need that to report to the FCC (during Starlink's infancy) that their system is working and to what degree. That was part of the agreement for the FCC to give them the frequency space. Starlink has to prove their system is working and where.

Thanks for the previous advise. LOL! But back in topic. I wonder how Dish works in parks? I don't have one so I can't attest. I know that they use different frequencies. The ones that StarLink is using is pretty high but wide, which is why Dish is pissed with them. But still would like to know how Dish works in parks.

[Camp20144]

Originally Posted by SeabrooksFam

Thanks for the previous advise. LOL! But back in topic. I wonder how Dish works in parks? I don't have one so I can't attest. I know that they use different frequencies. The ones that StarLink is using is pretty high but wide, which is why Dish is pissed with them. But still would like to know how Dish works in parks.

Satellite reception depends upon a clear unobstructed view of the sky. I had directTV at home. I have a very small window through tall trees. I had one spot I could put my receiver dish to get a signal. The only other issue was significant weather would degrade your signal - mostly a snowstorm issue. My small window through my tall trees could be an issue with starlink until they are fully populated. Even then I may have issues. My trees are taller than my backyard is wide. Starlink’s roof mount may help me???

[llr]

Originally Posted by SeabrooksFam

Thanks for the previous advise. LOL! But back in topic. I wonder how Dish works in parks? I don't have one so I can't attest. I know that they use different frequencies. The ones that StarLink is using is pretty high but wide, which is why Dish is pissed with them. But still would like to know how Dish works in parks.

I would hope it is much better then Dish, of course Starlink is Internet, not TV.

Dish is a very high geosync orbit satellite, do to very long distance and broad coverage has a very weak signal. Starlink is lots of low orbit satellites and shorter distances and hopefully a much stronger signal. I don't have any technical details to really compare but Starlink coverage "should" be more like GPS and Sirius radio then Dish. If I am correct trees will still be an issue, just not to the degree they are in Dish & Direct TV.

From what I have read so far you only need the "new" antenna for in-motion use. For me and probably many others in-motion is not a concern. I just need Internet at the site to work. It sounds like the only real issue now is policy, either Starlink or government.

The other issue is limited ground stations for now.

[vlamgat]

Originally Posted by dahagen

Starlink is internet only according to their website. So it doesn't replace DirecTV or Dish. With Starlink you would have to pay extra for movies and news from streaming services like Amazon Prime, Netflix, CBS and Disney Plus. That would add quite a bit to the $99 monthly Starlink charge.

Plus there are a number of special items required for the uplink. They have not yet decided on whether to offer the uplink for mobile use as it requires its own power supply which has complications. That means a cell phone connection/hot spot will be needed for log in and limited configuration.

This program is far from ready for prime time. Three or four years...perhaps.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by desuhu

It is going to be pricey. I've heard $100/mo, plus $300 for the equipment for home service.

Originally Posted by vlamgat

Plus there are a number of special items required for the uplink. They have not yet decided on whether to offer the uplink for mobile use as it requires its own power supply which has complications. That means a cell phone connection/hot spot will be needed for log in and limited configuration.

This program is far from ready for prime time. Three or four years...perhaps.

A couple of things:

- Starlink home cost is $499 for the equipment (not $300) and $99 a month;

- The current home equipment includes a router/power-supply and is engineered in a relatively small package. I don't see why this is a complication for an RV on shore power (or PSW inverter);

- If "uplink" is defined relative to a ground station, it constitutes the internet signal being sent from the ground stations to the satellites and back down to the user antenna (AKA; the user's internet download stream). If it is defined relative to the user, the "uplink" signal constitutes the user's internet upload stream. The phased-array antenna (Dishy) transmits/receives both radio signals. There are no special items needed for the mobile (user's) "uplink" since the power is built into the router and the antenna has Rx/Tx functionality. If there are special items needed, please elucidate;

- Based on the Starlink Mobile FCC filing, Starlink mobile will mimic the capabilities of Starlink home. Bidirectional connectivity is a must for shipping and aviation purposes;

- I'm guessing that Starlink mobile will be tested this year. In fact, SpaceX will soon be connecting a USAF aircraft to the internet in-flight. I'm guessing there will be a limited (beta) commercial (shipping and air transport) rollout in the first half 2022. Remember, the basic technology is very scaleable and is having a mostly successful (home) beta right now. The hardware won't need much re-engineering for mobile use.
_____

Now using Starlink on-the-go is another story, but not necessarily THAT difficult. Since Dishy already has dual-axis articulation to seek the best signal in concert with the built-in "steering" capability of a phased-array antenna, perhaps the most that would be needed would be an intelligent (robotic) gimbal dome mount for the dish similar to the current on-the-go systems.

[vlamgat]

Originally Posted by Theo

A couple of things:

- Starlink home cost is $499 for the equipment (not $300) and $99 a month; This is an initial offer but none have been installed and operating at these price points. The "consumer" Beta was scheduled for Q1/21 but is postponed. I was to be one of these (already an Iridium user since 2001) but they cancelled delivery.

- The current home equipment includes a router/power-supply and is engineered in a relatively small package. I don't see why this is a complication for an RV on shore power (or PSW inverter);

- If "uplink" is defined relative to a ground station, it constitutes the internet signal being sent from the ground stations to the satellites and back down to the user antenna (AKA; the user's internet download stream). If it is defined relative to the user, the "uplink" signal constitutes the user's internet upload stream. The phased-array antenna (Dishy) transmits/receives both radio signals. There are no special items needed for the mobile (user's) "uplink" since the power is built into the router and the antenna has Rx/Tx functionality. If there are special items needed, please elucidate; So the uplink issue is not disclosed but I understand from my Iridium techs (all prejudiced of course) that a significant amount of power/accuracy is needed to deal with the variability of the uplink hand shake that must be able to come from an infinite variety of places and find/lock onto a Satellite which in turn must be able to hand off to another at anytime while buffering the uplink signal. This switching, allocation and matching what has been uplinked to what should have been sent while the satellite(s) are all stationery but the sender is moving is a power consumer that throws off heat as well. Its working in test but its not reliable or so I am told. bear in mind reliability is not going to aim at 100% and the guess at the moment is that they are aiming for 90% which like Dish and ATT is going to mean a lot of unhappy customers for a few years just like Iridium.

- Based on the Starlink Mobile FCC filing, Starlink mobile will mimic the capabilities of Starlink home. Bidirectional connectivity is a must for shipping and aviation purposes;

- I'm guessing that Starlink mobile will be tested this year. In fact, SpaceX will soon be connecting a USAF aircraft to the internet in-flight. I'm guessing there will be a limited (beta) commercial (shipping and air transport) rollout in the first half 2022. Remember, the basic technology is very scaleable and is having a mostly successful (home) beta right now. The hardware won't need much re-engineering for mobile use. This time frame makes sense in the context of a consumer roll out in 2024 even though some areas will be proving sites in parallel with some commercial and military users. After shouting about the need for SatCom for 5 years, the USG took 5 years from the date they made their Iridium investment in a committed 3 year contract, to make it available to more than a very few users.
_____

Now using Starlink on-the-go is another story, but not necessarily THAT difficult. Since Dishy already has dual-axis articulation to seek the best signal in concert with the built-in "steering" capability of a phased-array antenna, perhaps the most that would be needed would be an intelligent (robotic) gimbal dome mount for the dish similar to the current on-the-go systems.

That is THE challenge. Packaging this capability in a size, price and reliability matrix that is supportable without hiring an army of 24/7 techs has proven tougher than they expected. There are still issues with Iridium "on the go" without a perfect sky, good power, and well built/tuned antenna. Chinese manufacturing of the antennas for example is something that has proved challenging at the price point needed for consumer mobile use. the military and commercial is another matter.