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Old 02-19-2021, 04:49 PM   #61
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Watched some drone footage of those Texas windmills. Every one of them has what appears to be a congealed oil/grease trail running all the way down the tower. Almost like catastrophic bearing failures in the main shafts. We have a number of windmills here in Alaska, but I've never seen that condition on them.

Really doesn't matter where "power" comes from. If your transmission/service lines are down the power goes nowhere. Additionally, you cant force that amount of kV's into a substation without a demand. The systems are designed to shut down when that happens.
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Old 02-19-2021, 04:55 PM   #62
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There is more to disaster recovery and business continuity then the purchase of a generator. It has to be tested and maintained if not used on a regular basis and fuel storage is not trivial. Right now gas stations are closed in my area of Texas, since the tankers could not come in to refuel. Should businesses plan on 4 days or 10 days for 30 year event? Where do you store that much diesel? Hospitals and Fire stations and police station, yes, or maybe. Businesses will make those decisions based on cost analysis.
100k every 30 years lost on spoiled food is cheaper than a 50K+ all the other cost associated with having a standby generator.
It is basic risk assessment to run a business.
State wide human cost is a total different story. That risk is handled on a political basis and appropriate taxation and funding to mitigate the risk is based on the risk assessment, and what people are willing to vote for and pay for.
In northern Illinois most businesses use natural gas instead of diesel. No fuel storage problems, reduced maintenance and 100% reliable.
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:36 PM   #63
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What most people do not realize is that ERCOT is a wholly within Texas power grid and has been that way since it's creation. The Texas panhandle is served by Xcel Energy and is tied to the Southwest Power Pool. We have been under the energy alerts just like the rest of the midwest. All available conventional fueled power plants are up and running trying to meet the load requirements.
What you may not know is the the natural gas companies have to give priority to their residential customers and under weather conditions as we've had for the past week have to reduce the gas provided to the electric companies for generation. Add too it that the gas wells do not flow as much gas when it's cold like we've had and you get a bad situation made worse.
If you are the type of person who has to blame somebody for everything that happens take a look at the person those remaining 3 fingers are pointing at when you point a finger.
Yes it does require an investment to "harden" the utility system, and remember that the utility system id regulated at both the local, state and federal level. I really don't believe that the regulators would allow the companies to spend the kind of money that would be required to do what some of these posters have advocated and then recoup that expendature from their customers. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH!
If my understanding is correct there is no federal regulation of the electric system in Texas. That is why Texas is by themselves when it comes to the electric grid, they didn't want the federal regulation. Maybe if they were part of one of the other power grids in the US they could have imported electricity to meet there needs when some of their generating plants went down.
You want to go it alone, you pay the consequences.
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:39 PM   #64
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You do realize that 60,000 years ago the oceans were 400 feet lower than today. That's 50 miles from current shoreline in Gulf Shores, Alabama. Who caused that? The Neandertals? Are we having an effect on our planet? Yes, there is no question but we are on the tail end of an ice age that will change into the next warming cycle and there isn't a damn thing we can do to prevent it.

https://www.thisisalabama.org/underw...d%20in%20place.
I disagree we can't do a thing to prevent it. Pay attention to the science. Scientists say we have changed climate with the industrial revolution and what has been predicted to happen if we don't change has been absolutely accurate. Does anybody really think we can't cut immersions and live healthier? USA is 5% of the population, yet produce 25% of the pollution. Now lets not forget China and nations in the middle east. Even they recongiize the need for cleaner energy and the catastrophic effects if everybody doesn't work to do their part. Want more wars? Just contribute to the heat effect on crops and see areas turning to deserts. Which of your sons, daughters and grandchildren do you want to get killed in them? Starving people fight and take what they need to survive. We are in a crisis and the time to change is fast approaching.
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:53 PM   #65
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I disagree we can't do a thing to prevent it. Pay attention to the science. Scientists say we have changed climate with the industrial revolution and what has been predicted to happen if we don't change has been absolutely accurate.
Science: Global dimming? Global warming? Geological history? Pole flip? I pay attention and am capable of talking in a knowledgeable manner on these and more...

We are altering the climate. Some. How that means we can stop the natural cycles of this planet is beyond me? There were mammoths walking in my home town just 10,000 years ago...who warmed the climate and killed them off? What did humans do to melt all the ice that caused the sea levels to rise starting 60,000 years ago?

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Does anybody really think we can't cut immersions and live healthier? USA is 5% of the population, yet produce 25% of the pollution. Now lets not forget China and nations in the middle east. Even they recongiize the need for cleaner energy and the catastrophic effects if everybody doesn't work to do their part. Want more wars? Just contribute to the heat effect on crops and see areas turning to deserts. Which of your sons, daughters and grandchildren do you want to get killed in them? Starving people fight and take what they need to survive. We are in a crisis and the time to change is fast approaching.
I'm not suggesting that we should not be good stewards of this planet but to think we will actually stop a natural earth cycle is hubris on either a god complex ideology or something less nice...
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:12 PM   #66
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100k every 30 years lost on spoiled food is cheaper than a 50K+ all the other cost associated with having a standby generator.
Losses in a grocery store the size of a Super Walmart will be WAY more than the 100K mentioned. I was told that the loss in the Walmart was HIGH six figures which in my mind means approaching a Million bucks.

Apparently the local Winco which is about the same size as the grocery section in the Walmart mentioned has more forward thinking decision makers. They have the large generator. It's not just preventing loss, but also capitalizing on the short sighted thinking of others. They remained open and sold plenty while other were closed loosing both sales and merchandise.

The company I retired from had a generator to keep the computer network going. It was run regularly and burned about a tank of fuel every year. Someone came by and serviced it about every 6 months.

Face it, most corporate managers are no different than what we now see in the Texas power grid system's management.

It's very possible that those who are suffering through this fiasco in Texas are already sharpening their pitchforks.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:33 PM   #67
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"Everything's bigger in Texas"

...including failures.
There was an old joke about the outhouses in Texas even bigger.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:48 PM   #68
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You do realize that 60,000 years ago the oceans were 400 feet lower than today. That's 50 miles from current shoreline in Gulf Shores, Alabama. Who caused that? The Neandertals? Are we having an effect on our planet? Yes, there is no question but we are on the tail end of an ice age that will change into the next warming cycle and there isn't a damn thing we can do to prevent it.

https://www.thisisalabama.org/underw...d%20in%20place.
Air samples taken from ice core samples in Antarctica clearly show an increase in greenhouse gases since the industrial revolution in Europe. Less greenhouse gasses can't be a bad thing in my opinion.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:49 PM   #69
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Science: Global dimming? Global warming? Geological history? Pole flip? I pay attention and am capable of talking in a knowledgeable manner on these and more...

We are altering the climate. Some. How that means we can stop the natural cycles of this planet is beyond me? There were mammoths walking in my home town just 10,000 years ago...who warmed the climate and killed them off? What did humans do to melt all the ice that caused the sea levels to rise starting 60,000 years ago?

I'm not suggesting that we should not be good stewards of this planet but to think we will actually stop a natural earth cycle is hubris on either a god complex ideology or something less nice...
I think you’re on to something there! You speak of natural changes occurring over 10,000 or 60,000 years. Now lets look at what changes humans have caused in the climate just in the few short years since the dawn of our industrial age. That right there should be the wake up call. We humans are changing the climate much, much more rapidly than Earth’s natural cycles.
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:20 PM   #70
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I think youíre on to something there! You speak of natural changes occurring over 10,000 or 60,000 years. Now lets look at what changes humans have caused in the climate just in the few short years since the dawn of our industrial age. That right there should be the wake up call. We humans are changing the climate much, much more rapidly than Earthís natural cycles.
Guess we'll find out who's right in the next 10,000 years or so.
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:36 PM   #71
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Read an interesting article about how the windmills in the areas East of Lake Ontario in NY can keep operating in severe winter weather. A major problem is icing of the vanes, especially if the ice creates an imbalance between the vanes and the ice can also change the pitch so that the blades won't spin.
The vanes are equipped with sensors that detect the ice load and internal heaters are activated to melt the ice. The windmill stops while this is taking place so that the ice drops straight down and isn't flung where it could create a danger.
This is all designed in as we have wind farms within an hour's drive from me that get around 200 inches of snow a year.
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Old 02-19-2021, 09:27 PM   #72
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Maybe all the Texas Cold Snap Babies born 9-months from now will help drive future requirements for the next power generation system.
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Old 02-19-2021, 11:00 PM   #73
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There was an old joke about the outhouses in Texas even bigger.
Well, at least you don't have to worry about a bear biting you in the hind end when you sit down in a Texas outhouse.


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Old 02-19-2021, 11:48 PM   #74
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In northern Illinois most businesses use natural gas instead of diesel. No fuel storage problems, reduced maintenance and 100% reliable.
Again... HALF of the power in Texas is provided by natural gas. It's not 100% reliable unless you 'harden' the gas wells.

Now our governor is talking about using tax money to insulate private producers wells. These private producers are raising prices to obscene levels and making huge profits. What's wrong with this picture.
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Old 02-20-2021, 05:59 AM   #75
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Air samples taken from ice core samples in Antarctica clearly show an increase in greenhouse gases since the industrial revolution in Europe. Less greenhouse gasses can't be a bad thing in my opinion.
True and as I said we should be good stewards...that includes making an effort to reduce our 'mark' on this planet.
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I think you’re on to something there! You speak of natural changes occurring over 10,000 or 60,000 years. Now lets look at what changes humans have caused in the climate just in the few short years since the dawn of our industrial age. That right there should be the wake up call. We humans are changing the climate much, much more rapidly than Earth’s natural cycles.
I would expect the changing climate to increase in the last part of the ice age without any human involvement as would most every climate scientist. -As the snow caps melt they are reflecting less of the sun's energy. (Our emissions are also blocking sunlight from reaching the ground to what amount? )

What causes evaporation or melting?...humidity, temperature (within the natural limits), solar radiation. Understanding pan evaporation rates is an eye opener: https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/...b0e541a03c20de

What do you think would happen if humans unplugged. I'm talking about making an instant flip back to the stone ages? The planet would heat up. Our particulate emissions don't just influence in one direction. -While most of everyone in the US was reeling from what happened on 9/11, scientists went to work with vigor because it allowed an opportunity to see what would happen if all aircraft were not emitting because they were grounded. Look it up if you want. It's fascinating.
Related:
https://weather.com/en-IN/india/scie...ure-rain-india

Our difference of opinion is on how much affect humans are having, of which, our individual opinion's are immeasurable statistically and verbally. Statistically because of what weight is applied to what piece of the puzzle and verbally since I will say we are having an effect and you will say we are having much more effect...how much more of what affect?

Again, I think we should be concerned with our influence and we may even help make this planet uninhabitable for humans (I've said for decades that we will be the shortest lived species on this planet) but I don't think we can prevent the end of this ice age. And given the evidence (not theory), humans are clearly doing things to warm the planet and things that cool the planet. Applying the proper weight to all the little factors is beyond what we can currently measure due to technology and politics.

.
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Old 02-20-2021, 06:40 AM   #76
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All I know...15 outside 34 inside no power for 3 days.

I know your pain. Hurricane Dorion knocked out my power for 6 days. I felt like a character on a reality show. Surreal.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:12 AM   #77
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I am pretty sure the wind did not stop blowing during the Texas grid collapse. It is true that this kind of storm is not likely to happen again for several years, but at least some kind of winterization is needed. Many lives have been lost in Texas due to this failure. Heads should roll.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:18 AM   #78
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Until we are all aware of what actually caused the failures, negligence, act of God, unpreparedness, maybe we should not call for rolling heads.

I think we all know what the media reports these days starts off as more opinion than fact. Perhaps reserving judgement until the facts come out would be prudent. Unless, of course, you are an expert in power generation.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:57 AM   #79
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I am pretty sure the wind did not stop blowing during the Texas grid collapse. It is true that this kind of storm is not likely to happen again for several years, but at least some kind of winterization is needed. Many lives have been lost in Texas due to this failure. Heads should roll.


Based on what, a gut feeling. I didnít say the wind stopped blowing for the whole week. I said the evening and morning that we got down to 1 the wind was not blowing. I based this on my observations when letting my pets out, I felt no wind. When I went in the front to check condition at my house, and check on my mom in her apt leaves on the live oak tree werenít moving and had snow on them. I checked my weather app and wind speed was list 0/3 windchill was same as temperature. We did experience winds and even had near blizzard conditions ( based mostly on wind blowing snow no accumulation) many people have died needlessly, across the whole expanse of the storm. Again more info is needed . I read or saw that a coal plant was offline temporarily because they couldnít move the coal, one of the two nuclear plants went offline temporarily. Nearly every state experienced some sort of power outages. Before heads start to roll letís fix the problem, remove politics and go with the facts. Texas has many faults but we also have many unique problems supplying power efficiently to over 26million people over the largest state in the lower 48.
If you can do better pretty sure there will be a few job openings after heads roll. So instead of pointing fingers step up and be helpful instead of hateful.
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Old 02-20-2021, 05:37 PM   #80
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True and as I said we should be good stewards...that includes making an effort to reduce our 'mark' on this planet.

I totally agree. Now how would you suggest we get those countries on board that do more damage in a year than we (and other responsible countries) can mitigate in a generation. The most populous country in the world spews tons and tons of burnt fossil fuel exhaust into the air and only limit that when the air in their capitol city becomes thick enough to chew.

The country with the largest rainforest on the planet allows people to burn 2.25 million acres of it in 2019 alone. All so they can create more farm/ranch land.

Of course we talk a good game here yet every Space X rocket launch generates 750,000 lbs of CO2. That's the equivalent of 38,280 automobiles in an entire year.

{don't believe me? Google it}
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