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Old 02-20-2021, 08:51 PM   #81
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https://apple.news/ASaOelReeRH6bPSuPueRZXg

Found the article interesting
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:15 PM   #82
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True and as I said we should be good stewards...that includes making an effort to reduce our 'mark' on this planet.
I can understand this coming from someone who rides a bike and sleeps in a tent as he travels our country, but you drive a 3/4 ton 4x4 that's pulling a 28 foot trailer.
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Old 02-21-2021, 07:23 AM   #83
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I can understand this coming from someone who rides a bike and sleeps in a tent as he travels our country, but you drive a 3/4 ton 4x4 that's pulling a 28 foot trailer.
I won't claim to be a perfect roll model and I'm not going to list all my efforts in defense because it would look silly to a bicycling vegan or a sheep herder in Uzbekistan. You are correct...there is no denying it...but as far as 'understanding' I said 'reduce' not stop. What is the alternative? You and me because we have trucks and campers should say screw it? We should oppose any effort to improve technologies that will have less impact? I guess it would be difficult to understand if that was your view...

As a country we have made real progress: "Since 1970, implementation of the Clean Air Act and technological advances from American innovators have dramatically improved air quality in the U.S. Since that time, the combined emissions of criteria and precursor pollutants have dropped by 77%. " -EPA

Humans are not going back to the stone ages (by choice )but that doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to look for ways to reduce our mark.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:09 PM   #84
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I won't claim to be a perfect roll model and I'm not going to list all my efforts in defense because it would look silly to a bicycling vegan or a sheep herder in Uzbekistan. You are correct...there is no denying it...but as far as 'understanding' I said 'reduce' not stop. What is the alternative? You and me because we have trucks and campers should say screw it? We should oppose any effort to improve technologies that will have less impact? I guess it would be difficult to understand if that was your view...

As a country we have made real progress: "Since 1970, implementation of the Clean Air Act and technological advances from American innovators have dramatically improved air quality in the U.S. Since that time, the combined emissions of criteria and precursor pollutants have dropped by 77%. " -EPA

Humans are not going back to the stone ages (by choice )but that doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to look for ways to reduce our mark.
And since 1970 China has been been increasing the level of pollutants discharged into the area by several multiples of what we here in the US have reduced ours. Shipping jobs to China has merely changed where the pollution is created.

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pd....122001.083421

Focusing on the automotive sector alone, how much sense does it make to force everyone in this country to eventually buy electric vehicles when a county of 1.1 Billion more people than this country are free to pollute at will?

Another irony is that most of the batteries used in this country for EV's are and most likely will be made in China in factories far less constrained by environmental laws.

It seems like since 1970, as mentioned in the post quoted, WE have reduced polluting activity by 77% and China has "picked up the slack" and added far more.

Perhaps the only way to combat that is for those countries that want to reduce environmental impacts make it more favorable for companies at home to be able to operate economically and clean and not benefit from shipping operations and production to China. Fewer taxes? Financial incentives?

We can't control other countries actions in regards to pollution but we certainly can make it more difficult for OUR companies to support their "economic boom" that is creating more pollution. Even a coalition of responsible countries working to promote commerce among them and lessen the need to do business with "rogue" countries that don't get on board with common sense regulations.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:15 PM   #85
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While it is clear the grid was not as robust as it could be, there is another flaw that needs fixing.

It is clear that the deep cold was predicted by both government and civilian weather forecasters. But, I am not aware of much, if anything, in the way of preplanning for civil support.

When I was a kid there were still remnants of Civil Defense shelters. Granted those were designed for times of war but it may be time to reshape that mindset for natural disaster preparedness on a community level.

Admittedly I am a bit of a prepper but I’m also a combat vet so go figure. The majority of folks don’t have any kind of special training nor do many have funds set aside for generators, food rations, etc.

What we as a society do have are government facilities that could provide shelter. Many states have both National Guard as well as State Guard that could be tasked to provide transport. I could even see either or both groups conducting classes during better times.

There are quite literally tons of -40 degree military sleep systems that become surplus and are auctioned off. Much of that equipment can be just transferred within government agencies.

Just saying...
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:20 PM   #86
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Has anyone been SURPRISED by a monster electric bill from this Deep Freeze

Has anyone been staying in Texas at an RV Park where the electricity use is billed to the site? Have you received a surprise bill that is as large as these people have received?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hi...?ocid=msedgdhp

I can't speak for others but if I lived where the electrical utility could charge obscene amounts like I read about in Texas as a result of this storm I would definitely get only ONE bill. I'd shut the power off and be out of the state as soon as I could pack and move.

Then again, I guess I'm spoiled. I pay $0.105 per Kwh here where I live, storm or not, high demand times or not. My last winter electric bill was $105. A fair portion of that was from running an Electric heater in my TT, keeping around 60 degrees through freezing weather.

The $16 K electric bill mentioned in the linked article is beyond obscene.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:37 PM   #87
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While it is clear the grid was not as robust as it could be, there is another flaw that needs fixing.

It is clear that the deep cold was predicted by both government and civilian weather forecasters. But, I am not aware of much, if anything, in the way of preplanning for civil support.

When I was a kid there were still remnants of Civil Defense shelters. Granted those were designed for times of war but it may be time to reshape that mindset for natural disaster preparedness on a community level.

Admittedly I am a bit of a prepper but I’m also a combat vet so go figure. The majority of folks don’t have any kind of special training nor do many have funds set aside for generators, food rations, etc.

What we as a society do have are government facilities that could provide shelter. Many states have both National Guard as well as State Guard that could be tasked to provide transport. I could even see either or both groups conducting classes during better times.

There are quite literally tons of -40 degree military sleep systems that become surplus and are auctioned off. Much of that equipment can be just transferred within government agencies.

Just saying...
I grew up when there were Civil Defense Shelters still active and stocked.

Today almost all have been "deactivated" and any materiel stored in them (like cots, water storage containers waiting to be filled, and emergency toilets), has been removed and disposed of. The spaces, usually basement areas in large buildings, are now filled with storage or equipment used in the building.

Whenever it's suggested that any public agency provide shelter the first words uttered by the agency is "Who's going to pay for it? Even deploying National Guard assets has a cost and the same words are uttered.

It's all about the money.

What more and more people need to do is what government agencies have been literally begging people to do. Take some personal responsibility and prepare for your own needs in an emergency. Have enough basic survival supplies for you and your family for AT LEAST 3 days and up to two weeks.

Warm clothes, a sleeping bag, water, and some non-perishable food items can go a long way towards survival while waiting for any relief the government can provide.

One doesn't need to go all "Prepper", just pure survival essentials. Being ready at all times to leave on a week long camping trip without having to go to the store can do the trick. Dried foods will keep you alive. A sleeping bag will keep you from freezing. A camping stove will provide safe (and thawed) water as well as a warm meal.

Campers and RV'ers will be more prepared as a rule but unfortunately there are all to many that don't bother as they figure that's the governments job
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:44 PM   #88
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I agree totally! But the sheeple won’t/don’t go along. Hurricane Katrina was forecast for days and days. Yet after it hit folks were on the news saying they didn’t even have water to drink.

Hank Williams Jr, “A country boy can survive” is all to true
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:26 PM   #89
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I agree totally! But the sheeple won’t/don’t go along. Hurricane Katrina was forecast for days and days. Yet after it hit folks were on the news saying they didn’t even have water to drink.

Hank Williams Jr, “A country boy can survive” is all to true
Ditto for former Boy Scouts, Military Vets, etc.

As for "no water to drink", a water heater is a great source. Unfortunately people are too used to getting it from the tap, not the "faucet" on the side of the water heater which often has 50 gallons of perfectly drinkable water.
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:29 PM   #90
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The 6 P's...vets will understand, the rest of you can look it up.
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:39 PM   #91
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Roger that BigH! 3-2 Charlie Actual out.

@TitanMike I detect a bit of country boy (or other) in you. Filling the bath tub can be a great source as well, and in the summer it can help heat sensitive folks with no AC.

As to the costs you mentioned earlier as well as the new surprise electric bills, perhaps the state of Texas can part with some of the $2+ Billion in fees they collect annually from the power companies.
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:47 PM   #92
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@TitanMike I detect a bit of country boy (or other) in you. Filling the bath tub can be a great source as well, and in the summer it can help heat sensitive folks with no AC.
My family moved to a farm when I started 4th grade. Lived there until I went in the Army at age 22.

Power outages weren't just associated with storms. Cars hitting power poles, power company turning power off while working on lines, etc.

We not only had water in the water heater but we had a huge reservoir on the hill above our house that held a couple month's supply of water that could be filtered/boiled for drinking.

We had enough canned goods in the basement and a lot of "food on the hoof" too

Can't remember all the times I got sent to the chicken house around noon for "tonight's dinner"

We weren't by any means Preppers, that was just farm life.
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Old 02-21-2021, 02:06 PM   #93
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Prepper is not necessarily a bad thing. I am not a “doomsday” prepper but rather a more general “stuff happens” kind of prepper (with a well provisioned safe). As former Army and particularly a farm kid you lived by “adapt, improvise & overcome”. Many of those skills and mindset have never been taught because they weren’t needed. Many people are like deer in the headlights if they flip a switch and no light comes on. RVers and campers are much better because they want to connect the dots and are able to learn from their experience and others.

When I took my Coast Guard class for boating the cost was free except for the cost of the materials, which was $8.00. This was put on by the CG auxiliary. I still think either the NG or State Guard (if the state has one) could do similar. May even be able to get it subsidized by some massive sporting goods chain that also provides their catalog.
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Old 02-21-2021, 02:08 PM   #94
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Well said.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:04 PM   #95
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Prepper is not necessarily a bad thing. I am not a “doomsday” prepper but rather a more general “stuff happens” kind of prepper (with a well provisioned safe). As former Army and particularly a farm kid you lived by “adapt, improvise & overcome”. Many of those skills and mindset have never been taught because they weren’t needed. Many people are like deer in the headlights if they flip a switch and no light comes on. RVers and campers are much better because they want to connect the dots and are able to learn from their experience and others.

When I took my Coast Guard class for boating the cost was free except for the cost of the materials, which was $8.00. This was put on by the CG auxiliary. I still think either the NG or State Guard (if the state has one) could do similar. May even be able to get it subsidized by some massive sporting goods chain that also provides their catalog.
As for training the public, back in the 70's I was a volunteer with our County's emergency management dept. We held regular, well advertised, classes on basic preparedness for storms and natural disasters.

When I assisted it was eye opening how few showed up. As I recall the average attendance was maybe 4 people.

In general people don't give any thought to the need and figure they'll just head for a big box store or walmart if they need anything.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:09 PM   #96
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Now that is just sad
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Old 02-21-2021, 04:17 PM   #97
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These giant bills are on a variable priced wholesale electric service called Griddy. Do your own research.
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:42 PM   #98
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These giant bills are on a variable priced wholesale electric service called Griddy. Do your own research.
Griddy is just one of several companies doing the same, signing up customers when prices are low but forced to charge outrageous prices when the suppliers "goose" their prices.

This is exactly like what happens when you finance your house with an ARM and then get slapped in the face with super high payments when interest rates soar.

The price you pay sometimes for a "good deal".
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:57 PM   #99
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These giant bills are on a variable priced wholesale electric service called Griddy. Do your own research.

Griddy is only one of many that exist. The people that got those bills were chasing the penny that they thought they were saving by "betting" on cheap electricity costs that could fluctuate monthly/daily. For the past 2 or 3 years they were saving close to 4 or 5 cents per KWH compared to fixed price contracts and thought they were ahead of the game. They failed to realize they could end up on the other side when prices started to rise. Most probably never read the terms of what the were signing up for and they had to sign they had read them(like agreeing to software licenses, how many have ever read the whole thing) I do believe there was some price gouging and things should be checked out but they did play the gamble to begin with. Offering some assistance should be an option available for those that are really hurt.
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Old 02-21-2021, 09:27 PM   #100
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Very good point exposing electric vehicle vulnerabilities. Don't have anything against someone with an EV; but, don't take away the tried and true.
Good thing they don't have natural gas vehicles either.
Of course gasoline vehicle is no better either when the electricity is out how do you pump gas into your car at the gas station?
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