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Old 10-07-2011, 06:34 AM   #21
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I must agree that calling people "stupid" for using a 1/2 ton to pull a lightweight fifth is not warranted. The new so-called 1/2 tons are a lot different than in the old days. My buddy just bought an F150 Ecobeast to pull his 28-foot fifth, replacing his F350 diesel! Obviously he notices the camper a bit more, but he says it is no problem whatsoever. I camped with him this summer and watched him hook up, and his truck didn't drop much more than mine when he put the weight on the hitch.
So just be sensible, and everything will be fine.
And definitely do not listen to the "WEIGHT POLICE", like Daisy said.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:43 AM   #22
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I find it interesting that you say your setup is fine, but after 6 months you started the search for a 3/4 ton truck. Upgrading the rims/tires on the Dodge was an excellent move for safety's sake.

Congrats on the F250. I think you're going to like it.

What I said in the post was that the set-up was acceptable and I towed and camped far from home.

Will the F250 tow better...absolutely. Is it a requirement to tow my camper...no. The trade off is that it's not my favourite choice as a daily driver...the Ram is better suited for that.

I've had an eye open for a 2008/2009 F250 CC SB Lariat V10 RWD for a long time. It's a rare combo and I grabbed at it and drove 9 hrs round trip to get it...got it for a great price too.

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Old 10-07-2011, 08:05 AM   #23
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I must agree that calling people "stupid" for using a 1/2 ton to pull a lightweight fifth is not warranted.
Not sure this refers to my post. I suggested he was "making an error" tactfully, I thought.

While it is true you can load to an AFT CG and keep the pin weight of a camper within the load limit of a 1/2 ton's payload, most folks tend to forget that to gain the benefit of a stable 5th wheel ride, the pin weight must fall in the "safe range" of 15 - 25% of unhitched camper weight. The "optimum" for stable towing and minimized TV "wander" is 20% of camper weight.

A 10,000 pound 5th wheel camper should carry a pin of 2000 pounds optimally, but can go no lower than 1500 pounds for safety. If your super duper 150 series pickup has an available payload for that (plus hitch, gear and family) have at it.

My 2008 Sierra 2500HD Duramax does not have the available payload for a 10,000 pound camper due to the Yamaha 3000 generator I keep in the bed; my wife and dog with me in the cab; a a few spare gas cans also in the bed. I have to load it slightly aft (13%) to stay within 100 pounds (over) of my available payload with my 9200 pound 5th wheel as it is.

Just sayin'

PS: If the OP took offense at my original post (or any other member) I apologize.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:10 AM   #24
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No Lou, it was donn who called people "stupid". You are always very polite and helpful.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:32 AM   #25
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I have to add that a shopper for a TV and 5th wheel combination is hampered at both ends of the deal.

TV shopping

It is in the TV dealer's best interest to sell you the most expensive TV on his lot. Emphasis "ON HIS LOT" Most dealers know what moves.

In the commercial line 250 - 450 series, they are pretty much stripped work trucks in white - if there are ANY options they are related to plowing not towing (at least in the north).

In the "civilian" market, what moves are tricked out 150 series trucks with 4x4, fancy goofy Mag wheels, leather seats and 5 passenger seating. The engines most likely ordered to emphasize fuel economy not towing so the rear gears are "low". While the integral trailer brake controller has been available on all trucks since 2009, only 1 in 10 on the lot might have it and that will be a "work truck".

The TV dealer is going to tell you anything he needs to to move that 150 off his lot.

On the camper end, the salesman makes his commission on the size of the deal. It is in HIS (or her) best interest to sell you the biggest rig he or she thinks you can pull OFF THE LOT EMPTY with your truck. They will go on and on about "DRY WEIGHT" numbers in the brochure even though they mean absolutely nothing since that number does not even include the "mandatory options" that every camper gets shipped with. (like propane tanks and battery). Only the "As Built" weight is the true "empty weight" of your camper and is found only on the yellow sticker. That Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW) is UNIQUE to your camper. It only means something until you start modifying the camper to make it "yours." Weight added to the structure (shelves, cabinets, etc) should be added to the UVW and subtracted from available payload.


Sorry for the soapbox, but you should know that the cards are stacked against you and you should never believe the dealers on either end.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:14 PM   #26
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All this talk of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton makes me chuckle. I'd hate to think what everyone would say about the trailer I used to tow in the '60's with my Buick LaSabre.
Reminds me of my dad who towed with a 1970 Buick LaSabre, with us in the back, a boat on the roof and motor in the trunk.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:19 PM   #27
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I can't wait for my tour to be up and I can move back east again.
You're a Maritimer stuck in Comox?
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:02 AM   #28
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We tow our wildcat 28bh with a ram 1500 hemi. It has 20" wheels and I installed airbags to firm the ride. I towed it without them and it did ok but after installing them it handles great. We just got home from towing it 2300 miles through some pretty hilly country and it netted around 10 mpg. Part of that trip was towing an offset BBQ pit behind the camper. I thought I needed a bigger truck but I'll hold off now after completing that trip. The main reason for a 3/4 ton now is to gain a full crew cab and keep the 6.5' box. What do peple do with those crew cab short box 1/2 tons anyway, there's no room in that box for anything!
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:24 AM   #29
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What do peple do with those crew cab short box 1/2 tons anyway, there's no room in that box for anything!
I rarely tow (other than my TT) or haul anything anymore, but I can't tow my TT with my Mustang so why do I need a bigger bed If I could do it over I would get the Supercrew (1/2 ton 4 door).
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
A 10,000 pound 5th wheel camper should carry a pin of 2000 pounds optimally, but can go no lower than 1500 pounds for safety. If your super duper 150 series pickup has an available payload for that (plus hitch, gear and family) have at it.
My wife and I own a Rockwood 2304s, that we tow with a Dodge Ram 1500... However, we're figuring at some point down the road - we might be interested in upgrading the trailer. Surprisingly the new F-150s are beasts. A 2012 F-150 SuperCrew 4x4 w/ 3.5L EcoBoost V6 has a payload of 2,310 lbs, GVWR of 8,200 lbs, GCWR of 17,100 lbs and max tow capacity of 11,100 lbs. Really close to pulling a 10K 5th wheel, and a price point that makes it less painful. We're not planning on upgrading truck or trailer anytime soon, we were just surprised how beast-like the new F-150s were.

But I will echo your statement that dealers will do what they will to get their comission. I will say with the exception of where we bought our RV. Our dealer helped us research GCWR, GVWR, tongue weights, etc... for our truck and then showed us trailers that fit with in what he thought was a comfortable range (w/in tongue weight, empty weight 1000lbs less than max tow capacity, TT+truck less than GCWR etc...). He even mentioned that a lot of dealerships will just sell you a trailer well out of limits, and wave goodbye, said that's not how they work - and they'd rather have us as customers for life, and that includes having us tow safely.
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:28 PM   #31
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I did a lot of math before I towed my rig with a Tahoe. I also upgraded tread and added a trans cooler. I would advise people to thoroughly understand the capability of their tow vehicle. Also, most junk yards have scales. I went to my local scrap yard and he let me drop the tongue, weigh the rig and weigh the combo for $10. He even printed me a receipt with those weights. Incidentally, my entire combo is only worth $130 in scrap!
Be overly careful, you only have one life and one family.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:43 PM   #32
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Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—
(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

So this means if I'm towing my TT with my company truck I do not qualify as a Commercial vehicle there for I do not have to stop at scales. I'll print this off and keep in glove box.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:31 PM   #33
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All this talk of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton makes me chuckle. I'd hate to think what everyone would say about the trailer I used to tow in the '60's with my Buick LaSabre.
I remember my 2 uncles (military contractors) used to pull their huge house trailers from job to job all over this great country of ours using the big Buicks and Oldsmobiles of the early 60's (with drum brakes!!!). These were actual "house trailers", way before todays use of "modern" lightweight construction materials.

Oh.....and remember, this was before the Interstates were as extensive as they are now.

Talk about "white knuckle towing"!!!
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:32 PM   #34
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Lol your absolutely right!
My grandpa pulled a 27' roadrunner travel trailer with. 1/2 ton single cab Chevrolet with 3 adults in cab and loaded to gills ! Traveled all over the Rockies . Unsafe Sure, fun you bet!!
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:24 PM   #35
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If you want a laugh, watch "The Long Long Trailer" with Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. What a scream.
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