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Old 12-20-2020, 09:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
Sorry about your experience. Mine was similar. Over 40 significant issues. The 5er was delivered with dead batteries, empty propane tanks, a gas line almost dragging on the ground, a non-working space heater, etc. I never went back. I fixed enough problems to make the unit usable, and fixed the rest over the first year. I had hundreds of hours invested before having all the issues corrected. Thankfully I was retired and had the time and hand the tools and mechanical skills.


Iíve got some mechanical skills, and Iím positive I could fix it all myself with a little help from the forum, but I guess itís a lot of money to spend on a camper to turn around and fix everything myself.
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:44 AM   #22
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Iíve got some mechanical skills, and Iím positive I could fix it all myself with a little help from the forum, but I guess itís a lot of money to spend on a camper to turn around and fix everything myself.
That's probably the best advice, my local dealer is incompetent and I never went back for warranty issues. The latest issue is when I discovered there was no floor under my shower. The lack of support broke the drain plumbing. Fixed it myself.
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Old 12-21-2020, 10:10 AM   #23
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Iíve got some mechanical skills, and Iím positive I could fix it all myself with a little help from the forum, but I guess itís a lot of money to spend on a camper to turn around and fix everything myself.
This becomes a decision between practical and principle. You are correct that you should not have to repair a brand new expensive RV however between the two options fixing it yourself is most likely the best option because:
1. It will be done right and the way you want it. No guarantee at dealer.
2. Dealers are exceptionally busy and anything involving them will not happen fast leaving your RV exposed to potential damage in a crowded lot.
3. Parts are difficult to get due to demand and Covid-19 issues so expect delays.
4. You purchased this to use and not sit on a dealers lot awaiting repair.


I am in no way endorsing the poor workmanship in the industry right now, but rather being practical and putting the ultimate goal ( camping in the RV) in perspective. For parts for OEM items, you might try contacting the OEM directly.
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Old 12-21-2020, 12:06 PM   #24
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When I had problems with my Puma the dealership was not really interested in helping me so I contacted the Puma warranty division - I found something similar for your XLR Nitro service dept:

Derek Glick
(574) 535-1544
dglick@forestriverinc.com

Angie Smiley
(574) 642-0437
ASmiley@forestriverinc.com

It took me less than 24 hours after emailing them to get approval for a complete roof replacement on my 2020 Puma 5th wheel.
Now I have to wait on the dealer to get the parts in and schedule the work - the service manager told me they would get the work done in January - I have my fingers (and toes) crossed hoping they will come through.
Good luck with everything - I think the factory reps are more interested in helping fix problems!!
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Old 12-21-2020, 08:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sharonogoingsolo View Post
When I had problems with my Puma the dealership was not really interested in helping me so I contacted the Puma warranty division - I found something similar for your XLR Nitro service dept:



Derek Glick

(574) 535-1544

dglick@forestriverinc.com



Angie Smiley

(574) 642-0437

ASmiley@forestriverinc.com



It took me less than 24 hours after emailing them to get approval for a complete roof replacement on my 2020 Puma 5th wheel.

Now I have to wait on the dealer to get the parts in and schedule the work - the service manager told me they would get the work done in January - I have my fingers (and toes) crossed hoping they will come through.

Good luck with everything - I think the factory reps are more interested in helping fix problems!!


Thank you for that, I think I emailed smiley once with no reply, but Iíll try again. I really appreciate you looking that up for me.
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Old 12-22-2020, 09:30 AM   #26
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Thank you for that, I think I emailed smiley once with no reply, but I’ll try again. I really appreciate you looking that up for me.

I wish you good luck and hang in there. I suggest people stop fixing units themselves, it gives the manufacturers no motivation to improve. I just went through a similar situation with a 2019 Grand Design. There were 30 issues (about 28 of those documented, still have paperwork from dealer) some of which indicated very poor workmanship. Final issue was a couple of decals, I waited months for General RV to get my last one and finally said screw it. Sold it about a month ago, done with RV's, can't believe this whole industry and how it operates.
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:41 PM   #27
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Man thats sad. Forest Riber should do the right thing and take care of you.
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:49 PM   #28
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Man thats sad. Forest Riber should do the right thing and take care of you.


So far Iíve been able to push a few of the right buttons, Iíve been called by an XLR rep and both sales and service managers from the original dealership. My parents are staying in the camper for the holidays but weíre planning to get the camper to them end of January and everyone is saying the right things. So far so good.
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Old 12-31-2020, 09:32 PM   #29
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Welcome to Abysmal...

...it's the NEW normal! Wait, come to think of it, it's the OLD normal too

Buying an RV is not like buying a new car. It's actually more akin to buying a dollar store paddle ball game for $20.00. The first few minutes are glorious fun, and then the rubber band breaks or the staple pulls out and the ball rolls down the street and into the drainage culvert.

I am so blessed to be both mechanically-inclined and handyman-inclined. Even with my new unit (purchased 2018) I've needed to be both...many times over
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Old 12-31-2020, 09:51 PM   #30
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Frustrating? Yes
Good value for your $$? No

But yet we all are spending increasingly more on RVs...no logic just emotion.

That said here are my pointers for a happy life with RVs;
--Your dealer introduces two things into your life 1)Workmanship of work done and 2) timing of work done. If you don't get automobile-level satisfaction from that dealer go to a mobile RV tech. Confirm in advance they will do warranty work and you will be satisfied on both timing and quality.

--Use this forum for help and if you are able try to get good at addressing issues on your own. If you are not capable or interested in keeping your toys in good condition you have two choices...recognize things will break and live with it or sell your RV. Lots of folks live on both sides of this outcome and are happy. BTW, same goes with boats, motorcycles, etc.

--If you are unable to get to your happy place with the first two items above I would suggest getting off the RV Upgrade path (ie, popup, trailer, fifth wheel, Motorhome, etc). Do not give the industry more $$ that will make you unhappy.

Full disclosure: I am stuck in the third category right now. I want a good quality fifth wheel and know too many people that have spent $85k-$110k and are very unhappy due to quality or service issues. I refuse to give the industry more money until I have a more automobile-like service/quality experience.

As noted above, your direct connection with the division who built your RV will give you the best satisfaction. I noted you have found your XLR contacts, they care about you and my experience says you will get satisfaction.
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Old 01-01-2021, 09:40 AM   #31
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Numbers

I am curious about the number of RV owners who are unhappy and received poor units. Two years ago my wife and I purchased a Cherokee Grey Wolf 20RDSE. I found this forum and have read all the horror stories. It kept me up at night worrying. It did help me become familiar with my TT as I checked for issues that I read about: bad or no caulking, tanks falling off, leaking roof, undersized tires, etc. In all cases my TT was fine. In truth, after two years of light use, perhaps 50 nights, we have had zero issues. Everything works as expected. My question is this: do we get a biased picture on this forum that makes it seem like most RVs are poor quality? Perhaps hundreds of thousands of good units are on the road but we donít hear about that? Or maybe I just got super lucky to receive a good unit?
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Old 01-01-2021, 10:13 AM   #32
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My question is this: do we get a biased picture on this forum that makes it seem like most RVs are poor quality? Perhaps hundreds of thousands of good units are on the road but we donít hear about that? Or maybe I just got super lucky to receive a good unit?
Normally, forums are biased toward those that have problems. But in the RV industry, I think what you find in this forum IS normal.
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:20 AM   #33
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I am curious about the number of RV owners who are unhappy and received poor units. Two years ago my wife and I purchased a Cherokee Grey Wolf 20RDSE. I found this forum and have read all the horror stories. It kept me up at night worrying. It did help me become familiar with my TT as I checked for issues that I read about: bad or no caulking, tanks falling off, leaking roof, undersized tires, etc. In all cases my TT was fine. In truth, after two years of light use, perhaps 50 nights, we have had zero issues. Everything works as expected. My question is this: do we get a biased picture on this forum that makes it seem like most RVs are poor quality? Perhaps hundreds of thousands of good units are on the road but we donít hear about that? Or maybe I just got super lucky to receive a good unit?
Yes. People do not post when they are have no or little issues.

Iíve bought more than a dozen new RVs over the years. Most had no or minor issues that the local dealer or I fixed with no problem.

My last two have seemingly had more issues and in two cases took more time to get resolved. They are more complex than previous machines so it isnít surprising. My current one just reached end of one year warranty so is due for something to break. But all the kinks are worked out so threads like this remind me to not go looking to replace it for at least a few more years. I rarely have kept one more than about three years, although one trooper Winnebago Class C stayed with us ten years and 100,000 miles with few issues.
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:54 AM   #34
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I am curious about the number of RV owners who are unhappy and received poor units. Two years ago my wife and I purchased a Cherokee Grey Wolf 20RDSE. I found this forum and have read all the horror stories. It kept me up at night worrying. It did help me become familiar with my TT as I checked for issues that I read about: bad or no caulking, tanks falling off, leaking roof, undersized tires, etc. In all cases my TT was fine. In truth, after two years of light use, perhaps 50 nights, we have had zero issues. Everything works as expected. My question is this: do we get a biased picture on this forum that makes it seem like most RVs are poor quality? Perhaps hundreds of thousands of good units are on the road but we don’t hear about that? Or maybe I just got super lucky to receive a good unit?
Modern quality control is misnamed. Modern quality control is all about consistency of product - which may or may not represent quality. It really should be called process control, but I digress.

The RV industry does believe in process (quality) control. Process control takes a huge culture change to implement, and often requires getting rid of everybody that succeeded in the current system.

Good process control means your product is consistent - which makes any problems consistent from one unit to the next, and therefore much easier to solve. Poor process (quality) control - such as in the RV industry - means widespread variation from one unit to the next. There is little to no predictability whether or not your unit will have problems, and what problems it will have.

Since any meaningful statistics would have to be pulled from an analysis of warranty claims - and even that omits the issues fixed by owner or dealer with no feedback to the company - we, the consumers, don't know how many "good" vs "bad' units are produced. Nor do we have a good dividing line for "good" vs "bad".

hope this helps
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Old 01-01-2021, 12:27 PM   #35
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Same with Keystone

I am having the same situation with a brand new Keystone. But, on two points I'm faring better. The factory actually sent a rep here to meet with us. Dealer was given a blank check to get it done right. The warranty should reset once they address the issues. Demand it.
On the other side, forest river was terrific as I dealt with them on my last (used) model and meeting the reps at trade shows is invaluable. Stick to it. Remember why you RV and get back to it as soon as you can!!! Happy New Year
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Old 01-01-2021, 05:27 PM   #36
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Modern quality control is misnamed. Modern quality control is all about consistency of product - which may or may not represent quality. It really should be called process control, but I digress.

The RV industry does believe in process (quality) control. Process control takes a huge culture change to implement, and often requires getting rid of everybody that succeeded in the current system.

Good process control means your product is consistent - which makes any problems consistent from one unit to the next, and therefore much easier to solve. Poor process (quality) control - such as in the RV industry - means widespread variation from one unit to the next. There is little to no predictability whether or not your unit will have problems, and what problems it will have.

Since any meaningful statistics would have to be pulled from an analysis of warranty claims - and even that omits the issues fixed by owner or dealer with no feedback to the company - we, the consumers, don't know how many "good" vs "bad' units are produced. Nor do we have a good dividing line for "good" vs "bad".

hope this helps
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame (my dealer spent a LOT of time bringing this unit up to snuff before delivery, transforming it from "bad" to "good")
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. Process Control, in order to be implemented by the RV Industry, would require (real) inspections. No other way to ensure you consistently turn out a "good" product. I believe the cost of a vast improvement in workmanship would be minimal. I think paying employees piecework went out a long time ago, except for very simple tasks. If you buy an RV you might have 3 problems or 30 problems. If you happen to get the one with 30 problems, it's a headache.
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Old 01-01-2021, 06:42 PM   #37
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Talk about hitting the nail on the head. Process Control, in order to be implemented by the RV Industry, would require (real) inspections. No other way to ensure you consistently turn out a "good" product. I believe the cost of a vast improvement in workmanship would be minimal. I think paying employees piecework went out a long time ago, except for very simple tasks. If you buy an RV you might have 3 problems or 30 problems. If you happen to get the one with 30 problems, it's a headache.
You can not afford to inspect quality in. It's too late to inspect after the vehicle is complete. Repairs cost too much at that point. Quality inspections rip the work force apart. Quality has to be built in - at every step of the build process.

To start, management (and workforce) have to completely change their ways. Not very likely when they are successful doing things the way they are doing them.

2nd step would be standardization of build process. Documented templates and jigs used everywhere. Adherence to templates and process has to be enforced on the workforce - again not likely. Role of management changes to process improvement, researching what went wrong during a build and fixing it - with blame assigned to process not workers. These management changes are highly unlikely.

Costs of standardization would be elimination of most options (car manufacturers are big on option packages aka trim levels), and reduction of number of different floor plans. Benefits would be much higher and consistent build quality for about the same unit price - but no current company is going to take the chance that will actually work.

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Old 01-01-2021, 08:26 PM   #38
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Different brands

I also wonder how much variance there is amongst the different Forest River brands. That would relate to how much independence is there between the different brands. I am sure they share the economy of purchasing components at a common FR price, but how much independence is there in management and process at the various factories?
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:47 PM   #39
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I also wonder how much variance there is amongst the different Forest River brands. That would relate to how much independence is there between the different brands. I am sure they share the economy of purchasing components at a common FR price, but how much independence is there in management and process at the various factories?
Well, the acquired brands (Dynamax, Coachmen, Palomino, Primetime)pretty much operate as they did before they were bought out.
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Old 01-02-2021, 06:55 AM   #40
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You can not afford to inspect quality in. It's too late to inspect after the vehicle is complete. Repairs cost too much at that point. Quality inspections rip the work force apart. Quality has to be built in - at every step of the build process.

I agree. Inspecting after completion would produce limited benefits. I think there could be some inspections during the process. The most effective thing imo would be to train your workforce to understand that substandard workmanship is not acceptable. It takes very little time to turn an electrical lug another 1/2 turn, make sure a crimp is done right or secure a wall that is actually plumb.
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