Using electric car's battery for power while boondocking

[JLeising]

According to several internet reports, the Prius has a 100 amp dc-to-dc charger from its traction battery to its 12 volt auxiliary battery. People report connecting a 1 KW inverter to the auxiliary battery successfully, with the traction battery charging the auxiliary and the engine starting as necessary to maintain the traction battery. 1 KW (2 KW instantaneous) should run a typical residential refrigerator, making this interesting as emergency backup.
I haven’t done this yet, so can’t comment beyond what I’ve read. I’m sure electric cars also have some sort of charging circuit for their 12 volt auxiliary batteries, but don’t know the particulars.

[SmittyCorp]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

It sounds like expensive power. Say it uses 25 gallons leaving 5 gallons to get to a station. In CA @ $4 per gallon thats $100. For 32 hours! Elsewhere using $3. Per gallon it’s $75 for 32 hours, still pricey. In CA they shutdown the grid for 1-5 days if it is windy and dry. That could be really expensive.

Doesn't sound bad to me. My 4000 watt contractor style generator consumes about 1/2 gal per hour at half load. That would be 16 gal for 32 hrs of 2000 watts. If the Ford can deliver 7200 watts for 32 hrs with 25 gal, then it's way more efficient than my open frame generator. And undoubtedly significantly quieter.

[MrPalazzo]

o.k., starting next year, the 2022 Ford F150 LIGHTNING all-battery vehicle WILL provide the easy capability to POWER YOUR HOME from it's HUGE battery bank - even Ford states and ADVERTISES that it could power a home anywhere from 3 days to 10 days, depending on the usage during that time - but, yes, it IS full 240v POWER from the vehicle, not a simple 120v outlet. It will have both at 50amp 240v RV outlet, a 30amp 120v RV outlet, and many 120v household 20amp outlets - for whatever and ALL needs that you need them for.

OF COURSE, yes, you will have to monitor your HOME's draw from the truck's battery bank, DUHHHH! Of course, but that does not NEGATE the terrific option to have this power capability - NO GENERATOR NEEDED. NO NOISE. NO GAS or DIESEL.

Most power outage are actually NOT long term events, they just FEEL like it at the moment, as you have little way to 'know' when power is to be restored. We just went thru this last month - yes, it is aggravating, and you 'feel' like you need to buy a generator for just those 'times', but actually they are VERY infrequent.
For a Major Catastrophe, it may be a different story, and even most F150 LIGHTNING owners with the capability that it will provide, probably WON'T singularly rely on ONLY their vehicle for this purpose, especially those along the Gulf Coast, East Coast, and within Tornado ally - they will still certainly have the trusted and reliable 'fueled' Generator.

Also, because the new F150 LIGHTNING is DESIGNED to feed power back to the Home's system, AUTOMATICALLY, the ONLY thing the owner is concerned with is simply flipping off the MAIN BREAKERS within their Home's main panel. This, yes, keeps any 'power' from going back 'out' of the home and into the power lines, which is the reason for the 'safety measures' of any Generator transfer switch - but a generator provides a different 'path' to the main panel, the F150 provides it simply back thru the SAME outlet it is plugged into.

Now, as for the current LEAF, like my 2015 model, and other battery-cars, I'm not aware of any 'stock' OEM capability to feed power back - but, that's not that it's not possible, especially with a device/adapter to provide that capability. It DOES have merit. I could have used this myself recently : )

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by MrPalazzo

o.k., starting next year, the 2022 Ford F150 LIGHTNING all-battery vehicle WILL provide the easy capability to POWER YOUR HOME from it's HUGE battery bank - even Ford states and ADVERTISES that it could power a home anywhere from 3 days to 10 days, depending on the usage during that time - but, yes, it IS full 240v POWER from the vehicle, not a simple 120v outlet. It will have both at 50amp 240v RV outlet, a 30amp 120v RV outlet, and many 120v household 20amp outlets - for whatever and ALL needs that you need them for.

OF COURSE, yes, you will have to monitor your HOME's draw from the truck's battery bank, DUHHHH! Of course, but that does not NEGATE the terrific option to have this power capability - NO GENERATOR NEEDED. NO NOISE. NO GAS or DIESEL.

Most power outage are actually NOT long term events, they just FEEL like it at the moment, as you have little way to 'know' when power is to be restored. We just went thru this last month - yes, it is aggravating, and you 'feel' like you need to buy a generator for just those 'times', but actually they are VERY infrequent.
For a Major Catastrophe, it may be a different story, and even most F150 LIGHTNING owners with the capability that it will provide, probably WON'T singularly rely on ONLY their vehicle for this purpose, especially those along the Gulf Coast, East Coast, and within Tornado ally - they will still certainly have the trusted and reliable 'fueled' Generator.

Also, because the new F150 LIGHTNING is DESIGNED to feed power back to the Home's system, AUTOMATICALLY, the ONLY thing the owner is concerned with is simply flipping off the MAIN BREAKERS within their Home's main panel. This, yes, keeps any 'power' from going back 'out' of the home and into the power lines, which is the reason for the 'safety measures' of any Generator transfer switch - but a generator provides a different 'path' to the main panel, the F150 provides it simply back thru the SAME outlet it is plugged into.

Now, as for the current LEAF, like my 2015 model, and other battery-cars, I'm not aware of any 'stock' OEM capability to feed power back - but, that's not that it's not possible, especially with a device/adapter to provide that capability. It DOES have merit. I could have used this myself recently : )

First of all the three day figure is just speculation as they don’t know the usage of the home. Second you can’t use your truck while this is going on, once it is depleted if the outage is still going on then you can’t charge the truck. Many homes have more than a refrigerator running, like another freezer, well pump, sewer lift pump, attic fans, furnace or A/C, medical devices, there are lots of things people don’t think about.
There will be people connecting these vehicles without turning off the main breaker of course then there will be laws or some requirements for utility protection. I don’t think it is a good thing to be in the hands of the public.
The advertisement for these vehicles is a grossly false narrative. They give mileage capability from a 100% charge then give charge times to 80%. They don’t give loaded mileage and so on. These batteries also degrade over time and of course insurance is higher due proprietary parts only, and the accident repair costs.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by SmittyCorp

Doesn't sound bad to me. My 4000 watt contractor style generator consumes about 1/2 gal per hour at half load. That would be 16 gal for 32 hrs of 2000 watts. If the Ford can deliver 7200 watts for 32 hrs with 25 gal, then it's way more efficient than my open frame generator. And undoubtedly significantly quieter.

The fuel consumption is not rated at the full 7200 watts.

[SmittyCorp]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

The fuel consumption is not rated at the full 7200 watts.

Do you have a source for that info?

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thre...fun-facts.136/
This site says full load is 32 hrs - bullet point 3.

The hybrid 2.4-kW system will run for 85 hours on a full tank of gas at maximum load of 2,400 watts. The 7.2-kW system will go for 32 hours under the same max load conditions. If you’re not using all of those 7,200 watts, the system will continue for much longer, the company said.

[dave1650]

Originally Posted by D W

I seriously doubt an EV is a viable backup power source for your house. After several hours of AC power demand the life would be sucked out of the battery and you have no way to recharge it. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul.

You may want to read this. It will change your mind. https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by SmittyCorp

Do you have a source for that info?

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thre...fun-facts.136/
This site says full load is 32 hrs - bullet point 3.

So they say. I have seen this before and I have seen lots of manufacturers claims before. They never even bother to mention the PF on the items connected will change the outcome. Neither do generator manufacturers tell you to calculate by the PF of the items you are running. So the claims are nice but reality is usually different.
It is a good backup for some people however. I think that people should have a transfer switch installed in their house before they use it as a total backup. I also think it could be very expensive to repair or replace compared to a generator of equal capability.
It wouldn’t work for me since my house and shop are served by the same 240v 3ph 400a delta service. I have a transfer switch for the house and one for the shop. I couldn’t run any shop tools like my 7.5hp 3ph compressor or my 10hp 3ph lathe and so on. That is why I have a 50kw Kohler fast response generator that is 3ph 6 pole 12 lead reconnectable running at 1800 rpm.

[Mtndrew1]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

It sounds like expensive power. Say it uses 25 gallons leaving 5 gallons to get to a station. In CA @ $4 per gallon thats $100. For 32 hours! Elsewhere using $3. Per gallon it’s $75 for 32 hours, still pricey. In CA they shutdown the grid for 1-5 days if it is windy and dry. That could be really expensive.

Less expensive than a refrigerator full of spoiled food.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

It sounds like expensive power. Say it uses 25 gallons leaving 5 gallons to get to a station. In CA @ $4 per gallon thats $100. For 32 hours! Elsewhere using $3. Per gallon it’s $75 for 32 hours, still pricey. In CA they shutdown the grid for 1-5 days if it is windy and dry. That could be really expensive.

It is more expensive than conventional generators... but... factor in many folks who own this pickup won't need to shell out the initial expense of a generator equivalent to the size, separate maintenance and will have the convenience of always having it with them wherever they may be. No need to store gas cans or refuel every couple hours either. That all has a price factor.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by 5picker

It is more expensive than conventional generators... but... factor in many folks who own this pickup won't need to shell out the initial expense of a generator equivalent to the size, separate maintenance and will have the convenience of always having it with them wherever they may be. No need to store gas cans or refuel every couple hours either. That all has a price factor.

There is also the cost factor of the option on the truck and replacing a part of that system will probably be much more than replacement of an equal generator.
As for home use, when it is being used on a job sight and power goes out at home the truck isn’t there but a generator would be. When it comes to refueling that depends on how much fuel is in the truck when the emergency occurs. One could still need gas cans. Plus the truck is now unusable, sorry honey you will have to go without as I have to go work.

[myclmac]

I don't really get your point. If you have a electric toad are you dolly towing it? How do you recharge the toad? Most class C's have a generator and not knowing what your EV is why do you need more power. Would charge the EV with the generator for 8 hours at 110v? If your boondocking in the boonies the range of your EV is limited to go sightseeing. I have an EV and would never consider bring it on an RV trip due to range, lack of ability to charge and range anxiety. I flat tow a stickshift vehicle.

[Chuck_S]

Tesla battery is in excess of 400vDC (four hundred). Gonna take some effort to reduce it to 12vDC.

-- Chuck

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by myclmac

I don't really get your point. If you have a electric toad are you dolly towing it? How do you recharge the toad? Most class C's have a generator and not knowing what your EV is why do you need more power. Would charge the EV with the generator for 8 hours at 110v? If your boondocking in the boonies the range of your EV is limited to go sightseeing. I have an EV and would never consider bring it on an RV trip due to range, lack of ability to charge and range anxiety. I flat tow a stickshift vehicle.

So true, everyone wants EV to be a free ride, we are a long way from seeing all the costs and disadvantages.
Here is some good info in simple terms for those who need it explained this way.
https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno

[timfromma]

Electric vehicles are a luxury at this time. Yes, they are cheaper to operate in terms of day to day expenses but are significantly more expensive than a comparable gas car. It also takes an hour sitting at a public charger to charge up when the battery is nearly dead compared with 5 minutes at the pump for a traditional car. I can achieve a full charge plugged in at home overnight. My car is 2 years old and has 70,000 miles on it. At today's gas and electric rates, it will take me roughly another 3 years until I reach the break even point. My car is fun to drive, has awesome acceleration and is loaded with all kinds of high tech features but is a luxury item. You cannot purchase an electric vehicle at this time and expect it to save you money. Maybe one day they will but not today.


That being said, there are alot more places today to charge up on the road than there were just a couple years ago and I'm finding new ones all the time. There are lots of shopping centers, malls, restaurants, public parking garages etc that offer cheap or free EV charging. I will often seek these places out if im looking for a place to go shopping or out to eat.


Maintenance on an EV is next to nothing. The only thing I've had done to mine are tire rotations every 5k miles.


Given the increasing number of public charging stations, using an EV beyond your local area has become easier to do. It's not as convenient as gas cars yet but they are catching up quickly.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

There is also the cost factor of the option on the truck and replacing a part of that system will probably be much more than replacement of an equal generator.
As for home use, when it is being used on a job sight and power goes out at home the truck isn’t there but a generator would be. When it comes to refueling that depends on how much fuel is in the truck when the emergency occurs. One could still need gas cans. Plus the truck is now unusable, sorry honey you will have to go without as I have to go work.

Yep, all factors to consider.

I doubt those who are serious about buying electric vehicles really care if there is a bit more expense if it is equipped with a generator option.

There is no best way... just the way any one person is comfortable with.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by timfromma

Electric vehicles are a luxury at this time. Yes, they are cheaper to operate in terms of day to day expenses but are significantly more expensive than a comparable gas car. It also takes an hour sitting at a public charger to charge up when the battery is nearly dead compared with 5 minutes at the pump for a traditional car. I can achieve a full charge plugged in at home overnight. My car is 2 years old and has 70,000 miles on it. At today's gas and electric rates, it will take me roughly another 3 years until I reach the break even point. My car is fun to drive, has awesome acceleration and is loaded with all kinds of high tech features but is a luxury item. You cannot purchase an electric vehicle at this time and expect it to save you money. Maybe one day they will but not today.


That being said, there are alot more places today to charge up on the road than there were just a couple years ago and I'm finding new ones all the time. There are lots of shopping centers, malls, restaurants, public parking garages etc that offer cheap or free EV charging. I will often seek these places out if im looking for a place to go shopping or out to eat.


Maintenance on an EV is next to nothing. The only thing I've had done to mine are tire rotations every 5k miles.


Given the increasing number of public charging stations, using an EV beyond your local area has become easier to do. It's not as convenient as gas cars yet but they are catching up quickly.

Yes you are correct.
I think it will be more expensive as time goes on. First will be the cost of the battery, road tax, motors, and building more stations will take lots of land since they have to sit so long.
I have read in my business automotive publications that insurance companies are increasing rates due the cost of the parts being proprietary. Where a $1500. Fender bender damages a battery could be $10,000.
Do you notice the insurance rates being excessive or limited to certain carriers?

[timfromma]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Do you notice the insurance rates being excessive or limited to certain carriers?

Yes. The insurance rate on my little EV is 60% higher than my 2500HD diesel truck.

[Tabasco_Joe]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Tesla battery is in excess of 400vDC (four hundred). Gonna take some effort to reduce it to 12vDC.

-- Chuck

Not that hard. But for something like the Ford F-150 they would probably split the batteries into two or four banks. Be interesting to see what approach they take.

[Stovebolt]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

It sounds like expensive power. Say it uses 25 gallons leaving 5 gallons to get to a station. In CA @ $4 per gallon thats $100. For 32 hours! Elsewhere using $3. Per gallon it’s $75 for 32 hours, still pricey. In CA they shutdown the grid for 1-5 days if it is windy and dry. That could be really expensive.

Luckily I don't live in California. In Michigan gas is a lot cheaper and if you really need the power for any reason at least the truck will supply it. That's all I care about. All the Einsteins out there can calculate the math all you want, but if you need it you got it.