V-Cross Platinum Rollover

[bodzcampers]

Originally Posted by youroo

Huh, There are a LOT of (40foot tri axle 5th wheels) on the seasonal also. I think they also use them as (Travel Units)! Youroo!!

Well, that's the point. That big for traveling, more stable with a fiver.

[RhoZeta]

Originally Posted by bodzcampers

Ya! When you get that big, I would think a fiver a must. 35'TT is a perfect candidate for a seasonal/permanent spot.

Uhhh, I hate to burst all of the RV-CSI Bubbles, these rigs here ply our hiways and byways @70 MPH all day long around here, some of them 50' long 16' wide being pulled on, of all things, a tongue pull hitch!! NO WD either and the WB Wheel Base of the TV is shorter than most F-250's, trailer weighs a lot more than TV as well yet we do not see the roadways littered with the carcasses of modular homes. I will wager it is due mostly to the fact that the drivers are experienced, the equipment is very robust and the operator knows what he is doing when it comes to making sure it is set up correctly. Kind of wrecks the trailer length to TV length formula...

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by RhoZeta

Uhhh, I hate to burst all of the RV-CSI Bubbles, these rigs here ply our hiways and byways @70 MPH all day long around here, some of them 50' long 16' wide being pulled on, of all things, a tongue pull hitch!! NO WD either and the WB Wheel Base of the TV is shorter than most F-250's, trailer weighs a lot more than TV as well yet we do not see the roadways littered with the carcasses of modular homes. I will wager it is due mostly to the fact that the drivers are experienced, the equipment is very robust and the operator knows what he is doing when it comes to making sure it is set up correctly. Kind of wrecks the trailer length to TV length formula...

Actually, I think many mobile homes, as well call them, are 80' in length. I don't really have any idea how much they weigh- maybe someone can chime in on that. I'd venture that a 16x80 mobile home would weigh north of 40,000 pounds. Just for fun, I'll also guess that one of the trucks towing it weighs 20,000. If I'm close on those numbers, that would be like me pulling a 14K travel trailer with my F150. I think you hit the nail on the head with the "driver experience" and "he knows what he's doing" statements.

[dannyabear]

There's a little bit of difference between a custom trailer toter and a grocery getter pickup;that a lot of folks don't understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mtelkman]

I am with dustman_stx on thinking the insurance will pay even if there was driver error or incorrect hookup. Insurance pays for our mistakes just as much as it pays for other things. That is why we have insurance. Humans make mistakes.

[caper]

Unless we know all the details we are only guessing what happened. Here is a picture of a professional driver that ended up on his side. I know what happened but can you guess.

[Rugged Brown]

Originally Posted by RhoZeta

Uhhh, I hate to burst all of the RV-CSI Bubbles, these rigs here ply our hiways and byways @70 MPH all day long around here, some of them 50' long 16' wide being pulled on, of all things, a tongue pull hitch!! NO WD either and the WB Wheel Base of the TV is shorter than most F-250's, trailer weighs a lot more than TV as well yet we do not see the roadways littered with the carcasses of modular homes. I will wager it is due mostly to the fact that the drivers are experienced, the equipment is very robust and the operator knows what he is doing when it comes to making sure it is set up correctly. Kind of wrecks the trailer length to TV length formula...

Saw one of these turn over on I95 near Augusta Me, a few years ago. It happens.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by dannyabear

There's a little bit of difference between a custom trailer toter and a grocery getter pickup;that a lot of folks don't understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like what? And if you think newer 1/2 tons are "grocery getters" you need to do a little research. They are much more capable than they were even 10 years ago.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Like what? And if you think newer 1/2 tons are "grocery getters" you need to do a little research. They are much more capable than they were even 10 years ago.

Light duty pickup truck suspensions are designed first and foremost for ride quality. They spend 90 or so percent of their lives doing non-hauling duty like commuting, road trips, and grocery getting. There's a reason you cant find a solid axle half-ton truck any more. Or even leaf springs. They are (erroneously IMHO) given inflated towing figures simply as a marketing tool, assuming ideal conditions. Tow #10,500 with a new F-150 and lose your trailer brakes. Let me know how that works out for you. with luck, you will have just enough margin of safety left to be able to select what you crash into.

Commercial heavy duty trucks are engineered from the get-go with towing/hauling capacity as the most important consideration. ride quality is way down the list. That's why a 20K tractor can gross out at 80k loaded with a modicum of safety. but you know what, they still wreck all the time.

I'm sorry, but my old leaf spring, solid axle 1977 Chevy K10 (designed when most truck were used for work, not commuting) would be a hell of a lot safer towing at its rated rated capacity of 8k than a new F-150 would be at its rated capacity of 10,500. Hell, it'd still be safer than the f150 at 8,000 pounds.

I'm not saying that there aint people towing 10k with a half-ton truck with no issues. I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm just saying that when it goes bad, the margin of safety just aint there anymore and it goes really bad. Hence the pictures at the start of this post.

tim

[OldCoot]

Cowracer, if you look at all the pictures of the OP's post and the enlargements, you will see the pins were not in the torsion bars which is what caused the accident. Had nothing to do the truck. It could of been a 3/4 or 1 T and the results of the hitch bars not being installed properly would of been the same.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Light duty pickup truck suspensions are designed first and foremost for ride quality. They spend 90 or so percent of their lives doing non-hauling duty like commuting, road trips, and grocery getting. There's a reason you cant find a solid axle half-ton truck any more. Or even leaf springs. They are (erroneously IMHO) given inflated towing figures simply as a marketing tool, assuming ideal conditions. Tow #10,500 with a new F-150 and lose your trailer brakes. Let me know how that works out for you. with luck, you will have just enough margin of safety left to be able to select what you crash into.

Commercial heavy duty trucks are engineered from the get-go with towing/hauling capacity as the most important consideration. ride quality is way down the list. That's why a 20K tractor can gross out at 80k loaded with a modicum of safety. but you know what, they still wreck all the time.

I'm sorry, but my old leaf spring, solid axle 1977 Chevy K10 (designed when most truck were used for work, not commuting) would be a hell of a lot safer towing at its rated rated capacity of 8k than a new F-150 would be at its rated capacity of 10,500. Hell, it'd still be safer than the f150 at 8,000 pounds.

I'm not saying that there aint people towing 10k with a half-ton truck with no issues. I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm just saying that when it goes bad, the margin of safety just aint there anymore and it goes really bad. Hence the pictures at the start of this post.

tim

First of all- I agree with your assessment of the tractor versus a half ton truck as far as intended purpose and design. That is why half tons are rated to tow 1.5 times their weight instead of 4 times their weight. To say they can't even do THAT safely is erroneous, IMHO. And your statement about leaf springs is false. The only half ton I am aware of that uses coils instead of leafs is the Dodge- and the payload and towing numbers reflect that. As far as losing brakes at 10.5K, I would assume it would be very similar to losing brakes on a 16K trailer with a 1 ton. The truck weighs ~30% more and so does the camper, so , yeah I think it would be about the same. Also- you reference older trucks being more capable- I don't think many would agree with that statement. First of all, I believe, (but am open to being corrected since most of my knowledge in older trucks involves the 67-72 Ford trucks) that all trucks of that era use a C-Clip design to retain the axles. This means that if you break an axle, the wheel, tire, and remainder of the axle will be free to come out of the axle tube. The only type of axle that I am aware of that was designed differently was the Ford 9" (used in the 67-72 F100's) which used a pressed on bearing with a backing plate that mounted to the axle housing and would retain the entire assembly in the event you broke an axle. If by "solid axle" you mean non IRS- I don't know of any trucks using IRS. Also, your 77 would have had drum brakes- much less capable than disk. In addition, your frame would have been a much weaker C channel rather than todays fully boxed frames. So, I'm sorry, but I'd go with a newer vehicle for towing heavy loads any day of the week.

[puff]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Light duty pickup truck suspensions are designed first and foremost for ride quality. They spend 90 or so percent of their lives doing non-hauling duty like commuting, road trips, and grocery getting. There's a reason you cant find a solid axle half-ton truck any more. Or even leaf springs. They are (erroneously IMHO) given inflated towing figures simply as a marketing tool, assuming ideal conditions. Tow #10,500 with a new F-150 and lose your trailer brakes. Let me know how that works out for you. with luck, you will have just enough margin of safety left to be able to select what you crash into.

Commercial heavy duty trucks are engineered from the get-go with towing/hauling capacity as the most important consideration. ride quality is way down the list. That's why a 20K tractor can gross out at 80k loaded with a modicum of safety. but you know what, they still wreck all the time.

I'm sorry, but my old leaf spring, solid axle 1977 Chevy K10 (designed when most truck were used for work, not commuting) would be a hell of a lot safer towing at its rated rated capacity of 8k than a new F-150 would be at its rated capacity of 10,500. Hell, it'd still be safer than the f150 at 8,000 pounds.

I'm not saying that there aint people towing 10k with a half-ton truck with no issues. I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm just saying that when it goes bad, the margin of safety just aint there anymore and it goes really bad. Hence the pictures at the start of this post.

tim

X2

[RhoZeta]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Light duty pickup truck suspensions are designed first and foremost for ride quality. They spend 90 or so percent of their lives doing non-hauling duty like commuting, road trips, and grocery getting. There's a reason you cant find a solid axle half-ton truck any more. Or even leaf springs. They are (erroneously IMHO) given inflated towing figures simply as a marketing tool, assuming ideal conditions. Tow #10,500 with a new F-150 and lose your trailer brakes. Let me know how that works out for you. with luck, you will have just enough margin of safety left to be able to select what you crash into.

Commercial heavy duty trucks are engineered from the get-go with towing/hauling capacity as the most important consideration. ride quality is way down the list. That's why a 20K tractor can gross out at 80k loaded with a modicum of safety. but you know what, they still wreck all the time.

I'm sorry, but my old leaf spring, solid axle 1977 Chevy K10 (designed when most truck were used for work, not commuting) would be a hell of a lot safer towing at its rated rated capacity of 8k than a new F-150 would be at its rated capacity of 10,500. Hell, it'd still be safer than the f150 at 8,000 pounds.

I'm not saying that there aint people towing 10k with a half-ton truck with no issues. I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm just saying that when it goes bad, the margin of safety just aint there anymore and it goes really bad. Hence the pictures at the start of this post.

tim

We are gonna have to agree to disagree!

IMHO and IMOE;

P/U trucks now are designed explicitly with towing/hauling in mind, I know everybody, including me, suffers from G.O.D.S. occasionally. (Good Old Days Syndrome) But to suggest that a 37 YO truck could tow just as safely as a modern one is flat out ridonkulous. ABS, trailer sway control, 4 wheel disk brakes, ECM's, modern suspension systems and designs, integrated digital and proportional brake controllers, fully boxed frames, built in class IV receivers, not to mention a shiteload more HP and TQ.
It is these reasons and MANY more why a modern 1/2 ton can tow 5 tons with no problem* and a 75 chebby C10 would just crap itself if you hooked up 5 tons to it.

(Not bashing Chebby's, just an example)


*If properly equipped and driven

Again, IMHO and IMOE.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by RhoZeta

We are gonna have to agree to disagree!

IMHO and IMOE;

P/U trucks now are designed explicitly with towing/hauling in mind, I know everybody, including me, suffers from G.O.D.S. occasionally. (Good Old Days Syndrome) But to suggest that a 37 YO truck could tow just as safely as a modern one is flat out ridonkulous. ABS, trailer sway control, 4 wheel disk brakes, ECM's, modern suspension systems and designs, integrated digital and proportional brake controllers, fully boxed frames, built in class IV receivers, not to mention a shiteload more HP and TQ.
It is these reasons and MANY more why a modern 1/2 ton can tow 5 tons with no problem* and a 75 chebby C10 would just crap itself if you hooked up 5 tons to it.

(Not bashing Chebby's, just an example)


*If properly equipped and driven, in ideal weather conditions, within reasonable and prudent speeds, on roads with no traffic.

Again, IMHO and IMOE.

Fixed it for ya.

Look... this is America. If GM or Ford or Dodge says its ok to hook up a fully loaded V-Cross Platinum 32VRLS to your shiny new half-ton truck, and yank it down the interstate at 70 MPH without a care in the world, who am I to say otherwise?

But for me personally? I wouldn't feel safe within a quarter mile of such a rig. All I am saying is that the technological gains over the last few years are not what is driving the inflated max towing ratings. Marketing is, pure and simple. And I would bet that a 95% of the new F150s and GM 1500's sold this year are equipped to tow about 8000# or less.

Tim

P.S. I'd lay any amount of money you care to wager that the 383 I had in the old 77 would out HP, out lb-ft and sure as hell out-pull any motor Ford cares to put in a new F-150, including the raptor. (Hint: Nothing stays stock around me for long )

[Weezer]

Cargo Carrying Capacity 3,501 lbs.

Exterior Length 35' 9"

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Fixed it for ya.

Look... this is America. If GM or Ford or Dodge says its ok to hook up a fully loaded V-Cross Platinum 32VRLS to your shiny new half-ton truck, and yank it down the interstate at 70 MPH without a care in the world, who am I to say otherwise?

But for me personally? I wouldn't feel safe within a quarter mile of such a rig. All I am saying is that the technological gains over the last few years are not what is driving the inflated max towing ratings. Marketing is, pure and simple. And I would bet that a 95% of the new F150s and GM 1500's sold this year are equipped to tow about 8000# or less.

Tim

P.S. I'd lay any amount of money you care to wager that the 383 I had in the old 77 would out HP, out lb-ft and sure as hell out-pull any motor Ford cares to put in a new F-150, including the raptor. (Hint: Nothing stays stock around me for long )

You can't compare your non-stock stroked 350 (383) to current stock trucks. I'll guarantee you there are MANY modded half tons running around now-a-days that would donkey stomp your old Chevy. Just because 95% of the 1/2 tons are rated at 8k or less doesn't mean they can't be properly equipped to handle more than that. I'm guessing you haven't towed anything heavy with a new 1/2 ton. If that's the case I don't really see how you can make any type of statement about the capabilities of current production half tons. And where did you get the "yank it down the interstate at 70 MPH without a care in the world" statement from? Do you really know how fast he was traveling?

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by RhoZeta

We are gonna have to agree to disagree!

IMHO and IMOE;

P/U trucks now are designed explicitly with towing/hauling in mind, I know everybody, including me, suffers from G.O.D.S. occasionally. (Good Old Days Syndrome) But to suggest that a 37 YO truck could tow just as safely as a modern one is flat out ridonkulous. ABS, trailer sway control, 4 wheel disk brakes, ECM's, modern suspension systems and designs, integrated digital and proportional brake controllers, fully boxed frames, built in class IV receivers, not to mention a shiteload more HP and TQ.
It is these reasons and MANY more why a modern 1/2 ton can tow 5 tons with no problem* and a 75 chebby C10 would just crap itself if you hooked up 5 tons to it.

(Not bashing Chebby's, just an example)


*If properly equipped and driven

Again, IMHO and IMOE.

X2

[Cowracer]

OK dustman. You are right and I'm wrong. You win 10,000 internets.

Its perfectly safe to tow any load with a modern truck, as technology is foolproof and never fails.

Tim

[dannyabear]

Every year, here in BR, I go watch about 50 'mentaliy challanged' kids pull a 737 airpane with a 2" diameter rope. It is a fund raiser for their workshop. Just because that can pull it doesn't mean they can stop it or controll it if it goes the wrong way.
I'll agree that a 1500 silverado can pull around 9000# because I towed a 8200# loaded down KZ3102 for a couple of years, but I sure wasn't confortable doing it and upgraded as soon as I could. Much better wirh 2500 (1500HD)

[ryand]

How do I win 10,000 internets? I could really use em.

I think everyone has valid point here. They are all plausible but unfortunately unless this guy is a member her and wants to let us know....we will never find out.


Back on track....Check your hitch work, check your weights, know your limits.