Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-02-2021, 09:01 PM   #81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
FORD gives the option to derate GVWR so you don't have to spend more on registration fees,

So Ford allows you to lie on your registration to save money??? How is that possible, and why can’t Chevy and Ram do the same.
There's no "lie" in GVWR and registration below capability. If you pay for a 9800 GVWR registration, you are legally limited to 9800 LB, even if the vehicle can handle 10,500 LB and may be so rated when needed. This marketing approach arises from state law--the cost the move up one weight class can be considerable. It's cheaper and better to change the GVWR than change the truck for lighter classes. This is not brand specific, and there is no safety issue, so passionate safety or brand loyalty snipes are not necessary to discuss this cost-efficient marketing approach.

On thread point, the question is will you get caught if you decide to exceed your registered GVWR. Probably not, if you don't look unsafe, but if you are ever checked, you are held to the selected GVWR.
__________________
2006 FR Salem 32SRV-LE 5th Wheel Toy-Hauler
2006 F250 Superduty 6.0 Lariat 4x4 Off Road
Slow Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 10:05 PM   #82
Canadian Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,567
Laws and enforcement up here are pretty much the same. The actual "weight police" are focused on commercial trucks and ignore RVs unless they look significantly overweight. They can and will pull over an RVer if they are obviously well overweight for the vehicle class.

I know that here in Ontario, Canada you can buy a 1 ton with a lowered GVWR sticker but I don't know if you can buy a 3/4 ton with a lowered GVWR. I don't know why you would. I know for a fact that in my truck's model year (2016), the F250 had a lighter rear axle than the F350 so the lower GVWR is not just something a lawyer came up with. There is (or at least there was in my model year) a real difference in the load carrying capability. That said, personally, I'd be a lot more comfortable overloading a 3/4 ton or larger pickup than a 1/2 ton or smaller pickup.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS, Reese Revolution pinbox and B&W Patriot 18K hitch
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed, 3.73, w/ snow plow & camper pkgs.
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)

itat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 10:36 PM   #83
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 95
Hello from very cold Edmonton!...Just wondering what you mean about people getting measured for length?. I tow a 40 ft cedar creek with my Chev 3500 HD. If there is a maximum length what would it be?. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palinduff View Post
I’ve heard of 1/2 tons with truck campers on them getting weighed in BC, but not trailers or 5th wheels. Here in Alberta I’ve talked to people that have been measured for length, but I see lots on the roads that are obviously too long, and some with their rear bumpers not far off the road.
jmcclocklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 10:53 PM   #84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark W. Griswold View Post
Is there anyone on here that is familiar with the insurance industry?

Something worth mentioning, is that if you are in an accident. Once an accident occurs, I would not be surprised if an insurance company would investigate the vehicles and their weights.
If overweight, this could result in a liability claim or a denial of payment.

For this reason, I would never risk being overweight. Not worth losing everything I own.


So does insurance deny payment for speeding ,drunk or reckless driving. Using that logic they would never have to pay.
moose074 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 12:30 AM   #85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose074 View Post
So does insurance deny payment for speeding ,drunk or reckless driving. Using that logic they would never have to pay.
Liability insurance is designed to cover all that bad behavior. See my Post #59, above.

Regarding the common statement:
"I would never risk being overweight. Not worth losing everything I own."

If any of us should, heaven forbid, really mess up and kill or injure people, GVWRs are going to be the least of our worries. If you did a bad thing and hurt people, you are going to be liable whether or not you exceed GVWR. NOBODY is ever going to say, "Well, he was within weight limits, so he's not liable." Similarly, there is no "strict liability" rule for exceeding GVWR, so nobody can really say, "Well, he's overweight, so he's liable for everything."

The one thing that is clear is that the insurer cannot deny liability coverage for exceeding GVWR. (or being drunk, speeding, careless or reckless driving, following too close, etc., etc, etc, ad infinitum)
__________________
2006 FR Salem 32SRV-LE 5th Wheel Toy-Hauler
2006 F250 Superduty 6.0 Lariat 4x4 Off Road
Slow Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 12:33 AM   #86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigH View Post
Why some folks look for 'reasoning' to assign a capability above and beyond what the manufacturer assigns is a head scratcher for me...

***
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigH View Post
I don't know about Ram but both Ford and Chevy will let you pick certain GVWR's for the exact same truck.
IF, as you say, Ford & Chevy apply different “GVWRs for the exact same truck,” THEN they sell underrated trucks with capability exceeding sticker GVWR. Some trucks are underrated to avoid higher registration costs or burdensome regulations in some states. Since you know underrated trucks exist, it’s not clear why it’s a “head scratcher” for you to understand why it may be safe to exceed underrated GVWR stickers.

You have a lot of posts about this, and I cannot reconcile all of them. It may help to know that F250s & F350 are virtually identical in some (not all) cases, especially in the early 2000s.
__________________
2006 FR Salem 32SRV-LE 5th Wheel Toy-Hauler
2006 F250 Superduty 6.0 Lariat 4x4 Off Road
Slow Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 12:37 AM   #87
Senior Member
 
Palinduff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcclocklin View Post
Hello from very cold Edmonton!...Just wondering what you mean about people getting measured for length?. I tow a 40 ft cedar creek with my Chev 3500 HD. If there is a maximum length what would it be?. Thanks
Max length of all units combined is 20m (66.5’ approx) in Alberta, 23m in Saskatchewan, but unless you are double towing you wouldn’t have to worry about it.
__________________
2017 F150 Eco Boost, SC, 8' Box, 4X4
Max Tow (10 speed, 3:73, 11,700lbs), HD Payload (2440lbs)
2015 Puma 253 FBS
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2000 Honda EX 400
Palinduff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 09:48 AM   #88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Moon View Post
IF, as you say, Ford & Chevy apply different “GVWRs for the exact same truck,” THEN they sell underrated trucks with capability exceeding sticker GVWR. Some trucks are underrated to avoid higher registration costs or burdensome regulations in some states. Since you know underrated trucks exist, it’s not clear why it’s a “head scratcher” for you to understand why it may be safe to exceed underrated GVWR stickers.

You have a lot of posts about this, and I cannot reconcile all of them. It may help to know that F250s & F350 are virtually identical in some (not all) cases, especially in the early 2000s.
I thought I laid it out quite clearly the reasons behind lowered GVWR on 3/4 ton trucks. If it can't be comprehended, well, I tried. Several reasons for derating, not just for registration fees in some states. Sure made me scratch my head someone can't understand it, or the fact that Ford doesn't NEED to raise GVWR when they already have more payload out of all the 3/4 ton trucks.

Fact of the matter is, ALL trucks are underrated to some degree. That's just how it is.
Bhrava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 11:07 AM   #89
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 324
I think that the possibility of being preemptively pulled over for a weight violation is a red herring.

My concern would be being involved in a crash with another party while overweight, and having a savvy attorney take me to the cleaners (not to mention that towing overweight is just a bad idea for a lot of reasons).

No way in hell I'm towing overweight...the stakes are just too high.
PodGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 12:43 PM   #90
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 505
GVWR Wiggle Room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhrava View Post
I thought I laid it out quite clearly the reasons behind lowered GVWR on 3/4 ton trucks. If it can't be comprehended, well, I tried. Several reasons for derating, not just for registration fees in some states. Sure made me scratch my head someone can't understand it, or the fact that Ford doesn't NEED to raise GVWR when they already have more payload out of all the 3/4 ton trucks.

Fact of the matter is, ALL trucks are underrated to some degree. That's just how it is.
Agreed. My comment referenced another who said my post #62 was a “head scratcher.” Your comments, Bhrava, are all good and well received. The following are general comments not directed at you.

GENERALLY SPEAKING:

This thread brings out a natural and healthy tension between those who say its unsafe to exceed sticker GVWR and those who say there is sometimes wiggle room introduced by the manufacturer for several reasons, some of which are safety related and some of which are not safety related.

I SINCERELY RESPECT ALL COMMENTS ON BOTH SIDES. That respect is deeper for those who are reciprocally respectful. The tension is a good thing, and personal disrespect should be avoided. We never know for sure how our comments will be taken by others—self included.

Thank you ALL for your comments on both sides of the GVWR wiggle room component of this thread.
__________________
2006 FR Salem 32SRV-LE 5th Wheel Toy-Hauler
2006 F250 Superduty 6.0 Lariat 4x4 Off Road
Slow Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 02:35 PM   #91
Senior Member
 
BigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhrava View Post

So what if the GM 3/4 ton has higher GVWR, the F250 still has more Payload at a lower GVWR, and that is what I pointed out at the end. No fanboy talk, just facts.
.
False...so I guess it is fanboy talk:

I couldn't find one 250 series Ford that had more payload than a GM 2500. In fact, the popular configurations (crew cab/4x4/short or long box) the GM trucks have hundreds of more pounds available for payload.

Ford does offer a 250 with a GVWR of 10800 now...it doesn't have a payload to compare with the GM trucks...I guess maybe they had to add too much steel to the frame in order to accommodate 10800 gvwr.
Proof:

https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/models/f250-xl/

https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/sil...ngineThree=L5P

Dig around, maybe Ford has an F250 unicorn that you point out but stick to the facts sir. Facts..
__________________
21 Ram 2500 crew cab long box. 6.4 gasser 50 gallon tank.
18 Vengeance 28V
BigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 02:47 PM   #92
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 505
Arguments about which brand has more payload...
Name calling...

Really?

Please don't get this thread closed down.

I'd recommend not responding to name calling and brand loyalty assertions. It just goes further downhill.
__________________
2006 FR Salem 32SRV-LE 5th Wheel Toy-Hauler
2006 F250 Superduty 6.0 Lariat 4x4 Off Road
Slow Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 02:54 PM   #93
Senior Member
 
BigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Moon View Post
Arguments about which brand has more payload...
Name calling...

Really?

Please don't get this thread closed down.
Name calling?

I'm not brand loyal to anything. My last truck was a Ford and in the last decade I've owned Ram/Chevy/Ford and Nissan. They all have their good and bad. You can't argue about facts and numbers on payload...the numbers are in black and white but someone is making false statements and I'm calling them out. I don't care for folks passing off information as fact when it is not true.

If you are going to say something as 'fact' it should be a fact...
__________________
21 Ram 2500 crew cab long box. 6.4 gasser 50 gallon tank.
18 Vengeance 28V
BigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 02:59 PM   #94
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Moon View Post
Arguments about which brand has more payload...
Name calling...

Really?

Please don't get this thread closed down.

I'd recommend not responding to name calling and brand loyalty assertions. It just goes further downhill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigH View Post
False...so I guess it is fanboy talk:

I couldn't find one 250 series Ford that had more payload than a GM 2500. In fact, the popular configurations (crew cab/4x4/short or long box) the GM trucks have hundreds of more pounds available for payload.

Ford does offer a 250 with a GVWR of 10800 now...it doesn't have a payload to compare with the GM trucks...I guess maybe they had to add too much steel to the frame in order to accommodate 10800 gvwr.
Proof:

https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/models/f250-xl/

https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/sil...ngineThree=L5P

Dig around, maybe Ford has an F250 unicorn that you point out but stick to the facts sir. Facts..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Moon View Post
Agreed. My comment referenced another who said my post #62 was a “head scratcher.” Your comments, Bhrava, are all good and well received. The following are general comments not directed at you.

GENERALLY SPEAKING:

This thread brings out a natural and healthy tension between those who say its unsafe to exceed sticker GVWR and those who say there is sometimes wiggle room introduced by the manufacturer for several reasons, some of which are safety related and some of which are not safety related.

I SINCERELY RESPECT ALL COMMENTS ON BOTH SIDES. That respect is deeper for those who are reciprocally respectful. The tension is a good thing, and personal disrespect should be avoided. We never know for sure how our comments will be taken by others—self included.

Thank you ALL for your comments on both sides of the GVWR wiggle room component of this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhrava View Post
I thought I laid it out quite clearly the reasons behind lowered GVWR on 3/4 ton trucks. If it can't be comprehended, well, I tried. Several reasons for derating, not just for registration fees in some states. Sure made me scratch my head someone can't understand it, or the fact that Ford doesn't NEED to raise GVWR when they already have more payload out of all the 3/4 ton trucks.

Fact of the matter is, ALL trucks are underrated to some degree. That's just how it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Moon View Post
IF, as you say, Ford & Chevy apply different “GVWRs for the exact same truck,” THEN they sell underrated trucks with capability exceeding sticker GVWR. Some trucks are underrated to avoid higher registration costs or burdensome regulations in some states. Since you know underrated trucks exist, it’s not clear why it’s a “head scratcher” for you to understand why it may be safe to exceed underrated GVWR stickers.

You have a lot of posts about this, and I cannot reconcile all of them. It may help to know that F250s & F350 are virtually identical in some (not all) cases, especially in the early 2000s.
Guys, while this has all been very interesting (hint - it has NOT been very interesting, I am just saying that to be nice), It has strayed very far from the question that the original poster asked. Could I suggest that you start a new thread to debate the decisions made by the engineers and lawyers?

The question was, does anyone have direct experience with being stopped/cited for being overweight in a non-commercial vehicle. Debating the weight ratings themselves doesn't further that conversation and actually dilutes the thread and makes it less useful for those who actually care about the question and answer.

Thank you.
__________________
-Qwkynuf

2003 F150 Supercab 4x4, tow pkg, 3.55 gears
2020 Flagstaff Micro Lite 21DS
Qwkynuf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 03:07 PM   #95
Senior Member
 
BigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
Guys, while this has all been very interesting (hint - it has NOT been very interesting, I am just saying that to be nice), It has strayed very far from the question that the original poster asked. Could I suggest that you start a new thread to debate the decisions made by the engineers and lawyers?

The question was, does anyone have direct experience with being stopped/cited for being overweight in a non-commercial vehicle. Debating the weight ratings themselves doesn't further that conversation and actually dilutes the thread and makes it less useful for those who actually care about the question and answer.

Thank you.
Actually the first sentence in the op was about being pulled over for being over on payload...

Registration, payload sticker and manufacturers playing with GVWR's seem right in line to me but if the OP doesn't want anything related...he can say so.
__________________
21 Ram 2500 crew cab long box. 6.4 gasser 50 gallon tank.
18 Vengeance 28V
BigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 03:49 PM   #96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigH View Post
Actually the first sentence in the op was about being pulled over for being over on payload...

Registration, payload sticker and manufacturers playing with GVWR's seem right in line to me but if the OP doesn't want anything related...he can say so.
The first sentence says that he has "heard" of people being pulled over. He then goes on to ask 3 specific questions. I'll include them here, for context:

Quote:
I've seen in different threads and forums, comments about how the weight police could ticket you if you are overloaded on your payload. My curiosity is getting the better of me and I have to ask a couple of questions.

My questions are
1) Have you ever been pulled over or had to enter a weigh station to go across scales to determine if you are overweight with an RV? Yes or No
2) If so what kind of TV/Motorhome where you driving and pulling what (Toad, TT or 5th)
3) What was the result of your having to do so?
He also says

Quote:
So, if you don't mind, have you ever had to weigh while traveling in your RV, what were you driving/towing and what was the result?

This is only to be taken lightly (no bashing), just how many of us have had a LEO stop us and weigh our RV's?
Which of those questions is served by arguing about how the manufacturers arrive at their weight ratings? Or by the incessant (and ridiculous) "Ford good! Chevy Bad! Ram totally rocks!" posturing?
__________________
-Qwkynuf

2003 F150 Supercab 4x4, tow pkg, 3.55 gears
2020 Flagstaff Micro Lite 21DS
Qwkynuf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:14 PM   #97
Senior Member
 
BigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
The first sentence says that he has "heard" of people being pulled over. He then goes on to ask 3 specific questions. I'll include them here, for context:



He also says



Which of those questions is served by arguing about how the manufacturers arrive at their weight ratings? Or by the incessant (and ridiculous) "Ford good! Chevy Bad! Ram totally rocks!" posturing?
I'm unsure how you think registrations, weight ratings and how they are arrived at have nothing to do with the first question. Considering it caused other posters to ask questions regarding those things, I'm not alone in thinking it is related.

I missed the incessant part...I corrected the facts. After folks are called on true facts they don't usually come back so I suspect that is over if it bothered you.

I think the discussion is related...you don't. If the clutter is bothering you stop with your part in in it and let LittleBill speak for himself...



__________________
21 Ram 2500 crew cab long box. 6.4 gasser 50 gallon tank.
18 Vengeance 28V
BigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:22 PM   #98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigH View Post
I'm unsure how you think registrations, weight ratings and how they are arrived at have nothing to do with the first question. Considering it caused other posters to ask questions regarding those things, I'm not alone in thinking it is related.

I missed the incessant part...I corrected the facts. After folks are called on true facts they don't usually come back so I suspect that is over if it bothered you.

I think the discussion is related...you don't. If the clutter is bothering you stop with your part in in it and let LittleBill speak for himself...




Because the first question is "Have you ever been pulled over or had to enter a weigh station to go across scales to determine if you are overweight with an RV? Yes or No"

Have you?

He asks for a yes or no response. I don't see him asking anything about how the numbers were arrived at. Do you?
__________________
-Qwkynuf

2003 F150 Supercab 4x4, tow pkg, 3.55 gears
2020 Flagstaff Micro Lite 21DS
Qwkynuf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:32 PM   #99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,082
Is it just me or do more of you find after 20-25 posts there's no point in following or reading further. Just more of the same presented from different angles.

I'll see if I get any comments before unsubscribing.
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
Mike134 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:33 PM   #100
Senior Member
 
BigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
Because the first question is "Have you ever been pulled over or had to enter a weigh station to go across scales to determine if you are overweight with an RV? Yes or No"

Have you?

He asks for a yes or no response. I don't see him asking anything about how the numbers were arrived at. Do you?
I'm ok with letting Little Bill decide what is related discussion and will abide by his wishes.

Have a good day sir.
__________________
21 Ram 2500 crew cab long box. 6.4 gasser 50 gallon tank.
18 Vengeance 28V
BigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weight

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 AM.