Winterizing: drain lines after AF

[lewisra]

Originally Posted by Eschatologist

Hi all. New here. Need a second opinion on this winterizing tip I got from a seasoned RV owner.

Claims once I blow out the lines and fill the system with antifreeze, i should then drain everything and blow out again. Essentially, whatever may be left in the pipes at that point will be antifreeze and therefore no risk of damage caused by the slushing up of Antifreeze in -40 or lower.

Any thoughts about this... ive heard of draining only, as a winterizing option but never of both AF then drain.

Cheers from Canada

Eliminates getting most of the AF out in the spring. I use just air, leaves just under a 1/2 tsp of water in toilet valve so i'm good there. Guess I've dodged the bullet with a drop or two in my other valves.

oh just havin fun, chill.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Since the 90's. Drain WH, open Low Point drains, drain FW tank, set bypass valves on WH. Getting AF into the system varies by make, model of every TT, MH, 5ver. Some on mine were a hose and valve by pump that I'd insert hose into jug of AF, turn on pump, open valves one at a time. Last TT was disconnect pump line from bottom of FW tank underneath TT. Attach hose I made to fit pump line. Fill bucket (dedicated to my AF only) with 3 gals of AF, turn on pump, open all valves...one at a time. Last was to remove screen from City water connection...STAND TO ONE SIDE...use a screwdriver to depress valve and allow AF to backflush out of the connection and clear any water. DO THIS WITH THE PUMP OFF !!! If the valve in the city connection will not depress, crack another valve for a second or two to lessen the pressure on the valve. Or you can have someone help and hold the valve in while you cycle the pump on and off to push AF out the valve. Warning them to stand to one side.....is optional.

[Eschatologist]

Thank you !

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by Eschatologist

Hi all. New here. Need a second opinion on this winterizing tip I got from a seasoned RV owner.

Claims once I blow out the lines and fill the system with antifreeze, i should then drain everything and blow out again. Essentially, whatever may be left in the pipes at that point will be antifreeze and therefore no risk of damage caused by the slushing up of Antifreeze in -40 or lower.

Any thoughts about this... ive heard of draining only, as a winterizing option but never of both AF then drain.

Cheers from Canada

There are a couple of posters on here that recommend blowing out the AF as an extra step in their winterizing procedure. Seems like a waste of time to me as all the AF will be out of the system when you hook the water back up in the springtime. But to each their own I guess.

Leaving the AF in there all winter isn't going to hurt anything though.

Originally Posted by D W

It seems for the past 3 weeks we've had this topic in at least 3 different threads.

We are just getting started. We'll probably have a few hundred more before the spring. Do a search and you'll get days of reading from threads in years past.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

There are a couple of posters on here that recommend blowing out the AF as an extra step in their winterizing procedure. Seems like a waste of time to me as all the AF will be out of the system when you hook the water back up in the springtime. But to each their own I guess.

Leaving the AF in there all winter isn't going to hurt anything though.



We are just getting started. We'll probably have a few hundred more before the spring. Do a search and you'll get days of reading from threads in years past.

X2 on both statements!

Some folks complain they can taste the antifreeze that was in the lines for months after removing it so I have seen those folks recommend blowing it out but in all my many years of camping, using antifreeze, leaving it in all winter and then sanitizing in the spring, I can honestly say I have never experienced this issue.

I always say this in these threads and I'll say it again...
I have seen many posts through the years of people who have had a cracked toilet valve, spigot or fitting using only the blow out method. I have never seen a post about something freezing and busting when using antifreeze. It only takes ONE drop of water, especially on these R/Vs with inexpensive (cheap) parts.

Have those that only blow out been lucky? I don't know but even one post of having issues, is enough for me to use antifreeze. To each their own.

Blowing out doesn't address the water in the pump/strainer either.
Many forget about that.

And yes, we are only just beginning to see the myriad of posts about winterizing, storing your battery(ies) inside for the winter, (and on a board no less...LOL!) will my water lines freeze if it gets down to 32º for a couple hours over night, are space heaters safe, how many nights can my battery last using the furnace and my furnace doesn't seem to blow heat threads.

It's that time of year.

[fgillies]

Originally Posted by campers302

Grab a few gallons of RV antifreeze and drain your hot water heater. Switch hot water bypass. Using the water pump which I hope has a hose attached just for this purpose to pump antifreeze thru the system. Open closest faucet the next closest and so on. Do not forget the outside faucet, shower and toilet. Pour antifreeze down all drains, use enough to cause the traps to be full and flow into the holding tank to be against the drain so it does not freeze.
Pour it down the toilet and let it rest against the drain valve as well.
Lastly crack your low point drain a little to be sure antifreeze is there and close the drain.

Best and clearest answer to your question. Pretty basic. To many people make it complicated.

[Axeman49]

I live in Nova Scotia and I have never blown my lines out. I use the low point drains and when they stop flowing I put the plugs back in. I then fill all lines with AF and make sure what comes out the taps and toilet is pink. I make sure the toilet has antifreeze in the bowl. I dump a cup of antifreeze in each drain. I also have a washer so I turn it on and cycle through hot and cold water. I then to a drain cycle to make sure I have taken care of the washer pump. I have a tankless water heater so I don’t have to drain my heater as there is no drain. The antifreeze just cycles through it to the taps. Been doing this for 11 years and never had an issue.

[Mooglide1993]

Originally Posted by Eschatologist

Hi all. New here. Need a second opinion on this winterizing tip I got from a seasoned RV owner.

Claims once I blow out the lines and fill the system with antifreeze, i should then drain everything and blow out again. Essentially, whatever may be left in the pipes at that point will be antifreeze and therefore no risk of damage caused by the slushing up of Antifreeze in -40 or lower.

Any thoughts about this... ive heard of draining only, as a winterizing option but never of both AF then drain.

Cheers from Canada

This was the procedure that I used last winter. i.e. I blew out the lines after they were filled with RV antifreeze. I saw a post about a month ago where some one said that this approach would leave traces of anti-freeze that might "clog up" the lines or valves. I doubt that this would happen, but it got me thinking. Has anyone ever heard of this happening?

I started doing this because my wife is very sensitive to odd tastes in water. I figured that there would be less antifreeze in the pipes to leave an aftertaste.

Regards,
Jerry

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

After the first step, blowing out the lines, you are nearly done. Then pour some AF int the drains to protect the traps. I don’t see why you would want to fill lines with AF after they have been blown out, and I especially don’t see why you would want to blow it twice.

The main benefits for me in blowing out lines with air is to avoid even needing to use antifreeze in them.

Amen brother, one and done!

[Papadave]

Instead of compressed air,which can damage lines if a valve is closed, I use a vacuum. Make an adapter for your shop vac and you will be amazed at the gurgles you hear from the low spots where water has hidden. Add antifreeze if you like for extra security. Worked well for many years for my boats and sprinkler systems in a 3’ frost line climate.

[spicercars]

My opinion is antifreeze is cheap insurance. That's my 2 cents. Never had a problem. Blowing out the line works for some but not for others. Depending how the lines are run you can get a low spot and that's where the water sits and it will freeze. It happened to me. If your worried about the smell or taste then blow the lines out after you put the antifreeze in. No need to blow out the lines first.

[Homebrew]

Reminder to do your washer connection and your black water rinse while adding AF. Both these areas have back flow devices which can freeze and crack.
I’m confused about people talking about after taste with using AF. After sanitizing the entire water system with bleach you should not taste anything but bleach.
I have learned that many people don’t sanitize but drink the water, where we sanitize and don’t drink the water from the tank.
Air does not work 100% of the time, AF is fool proof if you open every valve. I agree with many, it’s cheap insurance.

[eye95]

If you can taste bleach after sanitizing, you are probably using too much bleach.

If you check the Internet, you will find recommendations ranging from 1/4 cup for every four gallons to 1/4 cup for every 16 gallons. These recommendations are for bleach solutions that are already diluted to between 6% and 8.25% (e.g. Clorox).

If you don’t have a slime or algae problem and are just doing regular maintenance, I’d tend toward the 1/4 cup per 16 gallons. You shouldn’t be able to taste bleach after dumping and rinsing your tank.

[Homebrew]

Originally Posted by eye95

If you can taste bleach after sanitizing, you are probably using too much bleach.



If you check the Internet, you will find recommendations ranging from 1/4 cup for every four gallons to 1/4 cup for every 16 gallons. These recommendations are for bleach solutions that are already diluted to between 6% and 8.25% (e.g. Clorox).



If you don’t have a slime or algae problem and are just doing regular maintenance, I’d tend toward the 1/4 cup per 16 gallons. You shouldn’t be able to taste bleach after dumping and rinsing your tank.

I agree, I do add more bleach then suggest. But I rinse several times. I also let the bleach water sit in all the pipes and tank for 24 hours before draining and rinsing.
Again I don’t drink the water from the tank , we bring bottled water.
The point was that you should not have a after taste of AF if you sanitize your system correctly .
Also blowing out AF with air leaves droplets that dry and get hard, this could dissolve weeks after on your trip causing the AF taste.

[MapMan]

After working 41 years running all of the laboratories for the Chemistry department at Central Michigan University I am quite aware of the toxicities of thousands of chemicals so I could not bring myself to use supposedly non-toxic propylene glycol in my unit.
The LD50 of propylene glycol (Lethal Dose that kills in 50% of tests) for rats is 20 g/kg (rat/oral).
Instead, I purchased a completely non-toxic food grade Glycerin product called: BioTherm Fluids RV Antifreeze sold by Orison Marketing through Amazon for 70.00/5 gallon drum!

[D W]

Originally Posted by MapMan

After working 41 years running all of the laboratories for the Chemistry department at Central Michigan University I am quite aware of the toxicities of thousands of chemicals so I could not bring myself to use supposedly non-toxic propylene glycol in my unit.
The LD50 of propylene glycol (Lethal Dose that kills in 50% of tests) for rats is 20 g/kg (rat/oral).
Instead, I purchased a completely non-toxic food grade Glycerin product called: BioTherm Fluids RV Antifreeze sold by Orison Marketing through Amazon for 70.00/5 gallon drum!

You're not supposed to drink the stuff. You pump it into the lines when winterizing, and flush it out when you de-winterize.

Most of us on this forum drank from garden hoses 50-60 years ago and that didn't kill us, either!

I hate scare tactics like this.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by D W

It seems for the past 3 weeks we've had this topic in at least 3 different threads.

Yep, too many members aren't doing a search before starting another similar thread.

[KyDan]

Originally Posted by D W

You're not supposed to drink the stuff. You pump it into the lines when winterizing, and flush it out when you de-winterize.

Most of us on this forum drank from garden hoses 50-60 years ago and that didn't kill us, either!

I hate scare tactics like this.

What he said!
Camped just this week.
Filled the fresh tank at the CG.
Drank it, brushed teeth, made coffee etc.
Still alive!
Also use RV antifreeze every fall. Sometimes I blow it out after. Sometimes I leave it in there until first trip. I connect to city water, flush the lines. Probably use a blue jug for a couple days (filled with city water) then after a couple days we go back to drinking out of the tap! (gasp!)
I use a whole house carbon impregnated filter on my RV city water inlet. Replacement cartridges about $10 for a 2 pack. Change the filter each spring whether it needs it or not!
They usually do a decent job of removing the chlorine taste/smell.
YMMV.
Happy Trails!

[eye95]

I remember a Johnny Carson joke from the 70s. It was around the time that we were being told every few weeks that something was either killing or giving some group of Canadian rats cancer.

Johnny said something along the lines that dozens of Canadian lab rats were fed 8 gallons of milk and every one of them exploded. The scientists concluded that milk is not safe to drink.

[herkyfe]

I live in Canada in the Upper Ottawa Valley and I blow my waterlines all the time. Use a good compressor, I set my regulator at 50 PSI, too high a pressure you can damage your water system. Start off with draining your water filter (if you have one) and water heater tank to help shorten the blow-out time. I start at the furthest location and keep working towards the city water hook up including doing the toilet and spray hose. I start with the hot side (best side to start if you didn't drain the tank), open the tap, allow water to blow out, close it to allow some pressure to build up and open the tap and keep repeating until no more water spray observed in the airstream; move on to next upstream tap until the complete hot side is done. Then I repeat doing the cold side doing the toilet and spray hose too.

Ensure your tanks are drained of water after blowing the lines out and before you winterize your pee traps.

**DO NOT FORGET TO WINTERIZE YOUR TRAPS WITH A/F!**

I have been doing this using this method for many years on various trailers I have owned with absolutely no issues. REMEMBER, don't forget the outside shower if you have one!

For those of you with a washing machine. I strongly recommend using a/f for your washing machine as you can't blow all the water out. Read the manufacturer's winterizing instructions for it if you still have the paperwork for it, if not Google it to ensure you do it correctly. Option can be to disconnect the washer and just use a/f on it if. If you can't figure out a way of just doing the washer, then do the complete trailer with a/f. If you have winterize using a/f, there is absolutely no need to blow lines out. It is antifreeze and it won't freeze. Just ensure you did a quick blowout of all the lines before you put a/f through as that way you won't have a diluted mixture which could freeze. Just do a good rinse in the spring.

Happy winterizing and remember it does take time.