Heater has "Locked Out" - Page 2

DualSport · 01-21-2013, 12:56 AM

We had exactly the same thing happen last week. Just got the trailer back from Lazydays RV Service and the furnace came on but the burner didn't ignite. Knew I had full tanks, but I went and checked them and found the Service guy hadn't reconnected the propane hoses to the bottles. Problem solved, or so I thought. The furnace would not come on even when the setting was cranked up to 90F. The stove burners worked so the propane was flowing.

I cycled through turning it ON and OFF but made no difference. Then I decided to run the A/C to see it it was also affected. It worked fine and when I went back to the Furnace ON position the blower started and then thge heat came on and it's continued working normally.

I'm presuming the A/C selection reset the "lockout" but that's only from the edvidence I saw. It may be something else - i.e. a timer, but it did start working right after the A/C ran.

BTW, the frozen food in my fridge also was melted so the propane had been unhooked quite a while in Service Dept.

Bob

Earth Station · 01-21-2013, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVChick

I totally agree about taking it to a Pro in this case! Our dealer is in Ohio Nd we are in Missouri. They provided us with a couple dealers to check with. One dealer that I constantly go to for parts or supplies, is Bill Thomas. They sell FR rigs, just not the XLR FR toyhauler (which is why we purchased elsewhere) so they don't want to work on it.
I am sure we will find a dealer close.

Thank you everyone for the responses. Now I have more knowledge!

We bought the Earth Station at Bill Thomas Camper Sales in Wentzville!! Their service dept is great.... very knowledgable. I hope they can help and get you back on the road.... it is cold this morning!!!! Sorry I read you were going there! I hope someone somewhere can help you!!!

FR28footer · 01-21-2013, 09:45 AM

Try pulling the fuse to reset it.

RVChick · 01-21-2013, 10:14 AM

We are calling around, and as soon as my DH is done with his conference call, I will let him know these latest suggestions. Hi EarthStation! Glad to hear from you as well! I love Bill Thomas In Wentzville. We used to live about 10 minutes from them. We still shop there all the time, and I tried to buy an RV from them but I wanted the XLR Thunderbolt, and they don't sell it there. We spoke to the service department and they won't work on ours because they don't sell this particular FR model. I don't understand why that should matter....after all,it is a 5er, and I should think that the inside of this has the same components as another FR model. The manager told me to call the FR service manager and she gave us 2 other dealers to call and see if they will work on it. We are calling Cuno RV dealer now. They are about 11 miles away...
Thank you everyone for all the help and suggestions to fix it! We'll see how those go today!

RVChick · 01-21-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DualSport

We had exactly the same thing happen last week. Just got the trailer back from Lazydays RV Service and the furnace came on but the burner didn't ignite. Knew I had full tanks, but I went and checked them and found the Service guy hadn't reconnected the propane hoses to the bottles. Problem solved, or so I thought. The furnace would not come on even when the setting was cranked up to 90F. The stove burners worked so the propane was flowing.

I cycled through turning it ON and OFF but made no difference. Then I decided to run the A/C to see it it was also affected. It worked fine and when I went back to the Furnace ON position the blower started and then thge heat came on and it's continued working normally.

I'm presuming the A/C selection reset the "lockout" but that's only from the edvidence I saw. It may be something else - i.e. a timer, but it did start working right after the A/C ran.

BTW, the frozen food in my fridge also was melted so the propane had been unhooked quite a while in Service Dept.

Bob

Hi DualSport your instructions worked!! Thank you Thank you!! Yeahhhhh!! I am once again a Happy Camper!!

DualSport · 01-21-2013, 01:40 PM

Isn't it nice when something works!

Glad you're a happy camper again.

Bob

MightyMike · 01-21-2013, 06:27 PM

So, if I read this right, YOU fixed it. Your poor,poor hubby. He may have to start calling you RV QUEEEN!!! Great info on here, Huh?

The_Stuff · 01-22-2013, 07:39 PM

I have the suburban P40 furnace. it tries 3-4 times to spark and ignite and if it fails it just gives up. I have to pull the thermostat off and put back on for it to go again.. this is the second winter in this trailer so I have ordered a new ignitor for it.

really sucks when it doesnt work and its -44 out and you get home and its -15 inside and the water filter has split and burst and the kitchen taps are apart...

**Herk7769** · 01-22-2013, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Stuff

I have the suburban P40 furnace. it tries 3-4 times to spark and ignite and if it fails it just gives up. I have to pull the thermostat off and put back on for it to go again.. this is the second winter in this trailer so I have ordered a new ignitor for it.

really sucks when it doesnt work and its -44 out and you get home and its -15 inside and the water filter has split and burst and the kitchen taps are apart...

Have you troubleshot your furnace and determined it was the ignitor?
Do you smell gas when it is calling for heat?

danno2u · 01-22-2013, 10:39 PM

I really enjoy this forum! I haven't had the propane heater problem (yet) but I have the exact same RV as RVChick. So now I have a solution BEFORE I have the problem!

RVChick · 01-22-2013, 11:59 PM

Well sad news on the resolution.....it only lasted a day. Last night the furnace never kicked in, so I knew something was wrong. Got up in the morning and did the recycle through the thermostat....turned it to Off, waited, then clicked it to Cool....the air conditioner turned on and after it ran through a cycle, I turned the thermostat to Furnace. The blower turned on, but it never ignited, and no heat blew out. After about 5 minutes, it turned itself off.

We called a FR dealer Cuno, near us (11 miles to be exact), and they acted like they didn't know anything. We asked if they could send someone out, since we are living in it while we build our home in the country ( and we just skirted in the underside to keep our water from freezing, and tearing it apart and breaking down the unit to transport would be a big ordeal), they were not interested in helping. I realize they are a small dealer, but hello....can someone with knowledge at least come take a look? I thought warranty work could be performed by any FR dealer, but that simply is not the case. This is the second FR dealer that has refused to help us.

I am looking forward to understanding what caused the furnace to go into a "Locked Out" situation....let alone how to resolve it. ( we did pull the fuss as suggested but that didn't work either). Recycling through the thermostat worked for a day...so I don't understand once the furnace worked again.....why it stopped again.

I will definitely share my findings, as this is really a weird thing, and one you sure don't want to be a victim to....especially in this cold. Like I said before...thank goodness for space heaters....they really do an amazing job....

I thought it may be the ignitor, but we don't smell any gas fumes anywhere....and the stove workers perfectly!!

RVChick · 01-23-2013, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy2u

RVchick I just went through a similar experience that you are now in Missouri over New Years. I have a 2013 395AMP and the 3rd time out the furnace went kaput! The furnace once turned on the fan would run for about 5 min and then just shut off. Turns out there is a limit switch on the back side (the only part in the back). It is basically a relay that cuts off the heater as an "overheat protection", then relaxes when cooling occurs. This is for a Suburban furnace. The dealer that did if for me was great, maybe you are nearby.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...own-32821.html

Mark

Hi Leroy2U....who was the dealer? I would pay as well!!

RVChick · 01-23-2013, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy2u

RVchick I just went through a similar experience that you are now in Missouri over New Years. I have a 2013 395AMP and the 3rd time out the furnace went kaput! The furnace once turned on the fan would run for about 5 min and then just shut off. Turns out there is a limit switch on the back side (the only part in the back). It is basically a relay that cuts off the heater as an "overheat protection", then relaxes when cooling occurs. This is for a Suburban furnace. The dealer that did if for me was great, maybe you are nearby.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...own-32821.html

Mark

Oh I see the name in the title of your thread...thank you! I will call in the AM!

meandmylabs · 01-23-2013, 04:29 AM

I had a situation last fall where I had not turned on the gas of the seceond tank and the first ran empty. After several lighting attemps, it gave up and would not relight even after turning on the second tank. I pulled the 12v fuse for the heater and reinserted it. This reset the furnace and it has worked fine since. If you have not tried this, I would highly suggest it.

**Herk7769** · 01-23-2013, 08:55 AM

You most likely know this, but after three attempts to light the gas, the furnace will "lock out" to prevent gas from building up in the furnace and causing an explosion or fire if it finally did light.

There are many things that can cause a "no light" condition; but just like any appliance that uses fire, power, fuel, air, the right mixture, and an ignition source is required.

12 volt Power - To get the furnace to run, good strong 12 volt power is required. This means a known good fuse, good 12 volt wiring from the fuse block to the main 12 volt connection on the control board, a good thermostat calling for heat and solid wiring from the thermostat to the furnace control board.

Fuel. To get propane to the orifice:

1) There has to be enough propane pressure to feed the biggest consumer of propane in the camper. If you have all the burners on the stove running on HIGH with tall blue flames; this is good.

2) There has to be enough 12 volt DC power to run the system. A low battery will cause several problems we will also talk about later when we talk about "air." The gas solenoid need a fair amount of DC power to open and stay open. The DC blower motor needs a lot of DC power to run. The control board needs a minimum of 11.5 volts as well. The furnace fuse has to be good.

3) To get gas to the orifice, the motor has to turn fast enough to suck air from the camper, into the squirrel cage fan to force air through it and back to the camper. There is a small tap of plastic attached to a microswitch that has to "see" enough air pressure to close, completing a circuit to the control board. If this switch is bad, there is not enough air flow from the fan due to dirt or bugs nest, the fan motor is gummed up and turning slowly, or the battery voltage is too low to spin it fast enough; the "sail" switch will not close and the furnace will shut down. There is a timer circuit in the control board that "waits" for that signal for about 1-2 minutes before it shuts down.

3) Assuming the control board "gets the OK" from the sail switch; it sends the "open" voltage to the gas solenoid. The gas solenoid will then open a release propane into the combustion area through a carefully sized jet (orifice) for the altitude (normally sea level). Adjustments to the mixture for higher (or lower) altitudes are made with the air shutter to adjust the mixture.

Air Flow:

1) Combustion air is supplied by the SAME motor that supplies the interior air flow. The motor shaft has a squirrel cage fan on each end of the motor. If the motor is not turning fast enough for the blower; it is not moving enough air to light the fire either (over rich mixture).

2) The combustion exhaust has to exit the camper through the flue. Other wise the exhaust gasses will stay in the combustion area and put the fire out.
The lack of oxygen in the combustion area (rich mixture) will cause a 3 light attempt lock out. Bug nests (mud daubers/wasps) and dirt are the typical suspects here.

Mixture: Must be exactly correct for proper operation.

1) see above - People sometimes try to fix dirty orifice jets with a paper clip (don't do it). The steel will damage the soft brass and the overly large hole will cause a "rich mixture." Dirt in the hole will cause a "lean mixture." Lack of proper exhaust will cause a "lean" mixture. All of these can cause a "no light" lock out.

Ignition.

1) The control board - The "brains" of your heater is the control board. It takes the low voltage "go" signal from the thermostat; routes much higher amperage power through a relay to the blower to start it spinning; waits for the sail switch to close; routes power to the gas solenoid and ignitor; and monitors the exhaust temperature for a rise. If it does not see a rise in temp in the exhaust (using a bellows type temp switch), it shuts down the start attempt by closing the gas solenoid, purges the gas from the combustion area by keeping the blower motor running, reopens the gas solenoid and starts the ignitor again. After 3 cycles with no temp rise you are done until power is removed from the furnace by pulling the fuse at the fuse panel.

2) Obviously the ignitor itself can be bad. There is a spark tip just like in your BBQ that needs the proper gap to make a hot enough spark to light the gas.

This is a LOT of troubleshooting. Worse yet you will need to remove the unit from the camper to get to most of these parts. There is an upper limit as to how much a technician can charge you to fix your furnace. If the repair (which includes the cost of travel to your site, troubleshooting - as best you can without replacing anything, the bad part - or parts if you guess wrong), is going to cost more than half of a new furnace you will not be a happy customer.

I think this is why no one wants to travel to your site to work on your heater.

Suburban RV Furnace - NT Series on Sale - PPL Motor Homes

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...opy-32377.html
has instructions for getting the heater out if you know a competent mechanic willing to "give it a go"

RVChick · 01-23-2013, 09:29 AM

We did pull and replug the fuss but that didn't work, and like Lou says....we are Locked Out. Thank you for the information too! Will let you know how it turns out. Hopefully we know more today.

RodeoGeorge · 01-23-2013, 12:15 PM

Another option, since you cannot find someone to come to your location, would be to pull the furnace and take it to a repair facility.

You'll need a 3/8" Brass Flare Plug for the propane line to do that.

RodeoGeorge

danno2u · 01-23-2013, 11:20 PM

RVChick, you've figured this out the hard way, but FR explicitly states the following on their dealer locator page:

Our Dealers are as a rule, independently owned and operated businesses. Outside of those customers they personally sold products to, they are not contractually obligated to perform warranty service on Forest River products that were purchased elsewhere. There may be an occasion that you would be required to return to the point of purchase to satisfy warranty requirements

Forest River Encourages you to Buy Locally=

But the good news is SOME dealers will help you. When I broke down 80 miles from the nearest XLR dealer, they agreed to work on the RV if I figured out how to get it to them. I had to manually retract all 3 slides, landing gear, etc since we had no DC power at the time due to a shorted wire. As promised though, that dealer fixed it under warranty. I tipped the repairman $100 for his 6 hours of troubleshooting to fix it.

Danno

RVChick · 01-24-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danno2u

RVChick, you've figured this out the hard way, but FR explicitly states the following on their dealer locator page:

Our Dealers are as a rule, independently owned and operated businesses. Outside of those customers they personally sold products to, they are not contractually obligated to perform warranty service on Forest River products that were purchased elsewhere. There may be an occasion that you would be required to return to the point of purchase to satisfy warranty requirements

Forest River Encourages you to Buy Locally=

But the good news is SOME dealers will help you. When I broke down 80 miles from the nearest XLR dealer, they agreed to work on the RV if I figured out how to get it to them. I had to manually retract all 3 slides, landing gear, etc since we had no DC power at the time due to a shorted wire. As promised though, that dealer fixed it under warranty. I tipped the repairman $100 for his 6 hours of troubleshooting to fix it.

Danno

I actually was the one who misunderstood. My DH reminded me that our salesman did explain that part to us before we bought ours. I completely understand now, and it makes sense. Too bad I loved the XLR more than the Cyclone that our nearest dealer sold. We may have someone willing to send a guy out to us to do the repair. Our biggest obstacle we have about taking it somewhere, is that we are temporarily living in ours while we build a home in the country. And, we just skirted it in for the winter as or kitchen faucets would freeze each night. We have handled most issues ourselves, but the furnace breaking down is a must fix....even if we have to stay elsewhere.

So happy to hear you were taken care of while you were here in Missouri!! And you were very kind to tip!

danno2u · 01-25-2013, 09:29 PM

I'm curious how you are doing? With temps so low, did you have any serious water freezes, etc. The lowest temps I've had my XLR in was about 22 degrees for 12 hours and I had the kitchen water line freeze plus the line to the external water hookup froze for a while. Both were only minor problems and I learned to leave the kitchen drawers open on both sides of the sink so warmer air could circulate there.

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