sway issues with xlr 27hfs

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by ibjon

From what i can tell, when you add the extra 800lbs in the garage of the camper, their is too much weight behind the axles and not enough weight on the toung. any Ideas??

I think that is the problem.

You need to weigh the trailer with the bikes, including calculating the tongue weight (truck with camper without spring bars minus the truck without the camper).

On my camper, adding 40 lbs to the rear takes 15 lbs. off of the tongue . You could be taking 150-200 lbs. off of the tongue while adding 800 lbs. of weight...and that is just with 1 motorcycle. Taking 300-400 lbs off of the tongue while adding 1600 lbs. might get your tongue weight under 10%......no a good scenario.

I would also be concerned about the air bags. Inflating those could result in less weight distribution to the TV front axle. You might want to try setting up the E2 without the air bags inflated, and confirm you weights when you get the combo weighed.

1 other things, I don't think the E2 is as effective as the Equal-i-zer 4 pt.

[MtnGuy]

Here is how to weigh at CAT scales (copied from another tread:

Ideally, you should do 3 weigh-ins. Most CAT scales just charge $1 or so for reweighs.

Without changing any cargo or passenger seat arrangement, and 1 axle (consider the 2 trailer axles as 1) completely on a different section of scales, plus each truck axle on different sections:

1 weight with the truck and trailer with the spring bars in place.

1 weight with the truck and trailer without the spring bars in place.

1 weight with just the truck without the trailer. Again, leave passengers and cargo just like they were with the previous weigh-ins.

The weight of the 2 truck axles with the trailer hooked up without the spring bars in place minus the weight of the 2 truck axles without the trailer will give you true tongue weight.

The front axle of the truck with the trailer hooked up and spring bars in place should be equal to or very close to the weight of the truck without the trailer.

If you are feeling really brave, and don't mind leaving 1 of your bikes parked for a couple of minutes, unload 1 of those puppies and reweigh to see how that affects the tongue weight.

[mphair]

This has got me freaked out.
I put a deposit on a 24HFS just one week ago thinking it will be a perfect setup for hauling my 1,500 lb SxS.
With a tongue weight of just under 600 lbs, it looks like I may end up selling the trailer after my maiden trip.
Ugh...
There just isn't enough information out there to determine what will work.
I don't want to be adding bricks to the tongue to make it tow right either.

[MtnGuy]

Pure speculation here, but using the "dry weights" from the Forest River website, plus some projections of weights after options are added, that trailer may come from the factory with weighing about 6200 lbs with a tongue weight of 1100 lbs. (17.7% tongue weight).

Load up 1600 lbs. of bikes, take away about 400 lbs. of tongue weight, and that is now 7800 lbs. with a 700 lb. tongue weight. (9% tongue weight). 10% seems to be the recognized minimum tongue weight to total trailer weight recommended to weight ratio.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by MtnGuy

Here is how to weigh at CAT scales (copied from another tread:

Ideally, you should do 3 weigh-ins. Most CAT scales just charge $1 or so for reweighs.

Without changing any cargo or passenger seat arrangement, and 1 axle (consider the 2 trailer axles as 1) completely on a different section of scales, plus each truck axle on different sections:

1 weight with the truck and trailer with the spring bars in place.

1 weight with the truck and trailer without the spring bars in place.

1 weight with just the truck without the trailer. Again, leave passengers and cargo just like they were with the previous weigh-ins.

The weight of the 2 truck axles with the trailer hooked up without the spring bars in place minus the weight of the 2 truck axles without the trailer will give you true tongue weight.

The front axle of the truck with the trailer hooked up and spring bars in place should be equal to or very close to the weight of the truck without the trailer.

If you are feeling really brave, and don't mind leaving 1 of your bikes parked for a couple of minutes, unload 1 of those puppies and reweigh to see how that affects the tongue weight.

Here's a tool that I have written to help once you have the scaled weights:
Actual Weights - Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull Weights from CAT Scales - Towing Planner

Plug in your numbers and it spits out calculations.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by ibjon

My truck is a 2012 F-150 Max Tow with air bags, I am running the GoodYear Wrangler tires 275/65R18

Is this the tire?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....eMake=Goodyear

I don't know much about tires, but with the size: P275/65R18, doesn't that mean these are not "light truck" (LT) tires and is what OldCoot is recommending that you change based on his past experience towing with 1/2-ton trucks?

Originally Posted by ibjon

The truck was cert. scaled at 5980lbs the camper without bikes, just normal camping items that stay in camper was 7200 lbs. ...
From what i can tell, when you add the extra 800lbs in the garage of the camper, their is too much weight behind the axles and not enough weight on the toung. any Ideas??

IMO, without actually weighing the camper with both bikes in the back, you're just guessing. You need numbers to make an informed decision.

Originally Posted by ibjon

I Load one bike approx 800lbs run down the road at 70 to 80 mph no problems..

70-80mph? Yowza. Your ST tires on the camper are likely only rated to 65mph.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Is this the tire?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....eMake=Goodyear

I don't know much about tires, but with the size: P275/65R18, doesn't that mean these are not "light truck" (LT) tires and is what OldCoot is recommending that you change based on his past experience towing with 1/2-ton trucks?




IMO, without actually weighing the camper with both bikes in the back, you're just guessing. You need numbers to make an informed decision.


70-80mph? Yowza. Your ST tires on the camper are likely only rated to 65mph.

I think a P tire denotes a "Passenger" tire (P275/65-18) whereas if it is a light truck tire it will start with LT. (LT275/65-18) I know on my 20's, there was an SL and an XL rating rather than a P or LT prefix. I had the SL (standard load) swapped with XL (extra load) before taking delivery and picked up, IIRC, around 300lbs. of weight rating per tire.

+1 on the 70-80. Way too fast pulling a trailer of any kind, IMHO.

[OldCoot]

Any P rated tire is not good for towing anything but a 5'x8' lawnmower utility trailer and even that is debatable.

[mphair]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Any P rated tire is not good for towing anything but a 5'x8' lawnmower utility trailer and even that is debatable.

That's just great. There goes another $1,400 to replace the perfectly good tires on my truck with E rated.

Shame on Ford for saying that their F150 can pull 11,300 lbs and can hold 1,600 in the bed, only to come with crappy tires not designed to do so. At least that seams to be the consensus on here.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by mphair

Shame on Ford for saying that their F150 can pull 11,300 lbs and can hold 1,600 in the bed, only to come with crappy tires not designed to do so. At least that seams to be the consensus on here.

The 4 P-rated tires that came on my truck can carry the rated axle weights and GVWR. If you check your tire ratings, they should also be able to carry the weight. When I am ready to replace my tires, I will replace with C rated LT tires. But the darn OEM Hankooks just don't want to seem to wear out.

[BigTJohn]

You are right on the crappy tires not rated for what they (Ford) rates the truck to do. The speed, even though you think it gets you there sooner, is just too fast, both for the tires on the trailer and for your state of mind and nerves and basic perception of safety. A little slower, 60 mph will only add about 45 min to your trip per 8 hr day (about). Nothing in the scheme of things in the universe.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by mphair

That's just great. There goes another $1,400 to replace the perfectly good tires on my truck with E rated.

Shame on Ford for saying that their F150 can pull 11,300 lbs and can hold 1,600 in the bed, only to come with crappy tires not designed to do so. At least that seams to be the consensus on here.

It can do both of those things on P tires, IMHO. The problem is when the load you are pulling is a giant sail (RV) that catches wind. Too much lateral force (sway) for the sidewalls to adequately handle. Also, Ford has to decide if they want a harsher ride that will tick off 97% of owners that use their trucks as grocery getters or put the softer P tires on that will tick off the 3% of us that need to change them. I think we see what they decided. Also, in my experience you lose ~2MPG when replacing the stock P tire with an LT with slightly more aggressive tread. Ford wants the MPG numbers as high as possible.

[lbrjet]

You need a better hitch with integrated sway control and take the time to learn what it does and how to set it up correctly. This is not a problem with your tires or your truck. And by the way your F150 tow rating is based on towing a flatbed trailer full of bricks, not a travel trailer. Look in your owners manual about frontal area.

[meandmylabs]

Ok, now that many of the speculators who have never towed a TH have given their opinion, let me see if I can help you some since I have the exact same trailer and did pull with an older F150.

First of all, the tow ratings have been exaggerated for marketing purposes by most all of the manufacturers. There is no question that your Ecoboost engine has more than enough power and the tranny is very capable of towing the weight of your trailer. Where your problem lies is when you increase the cargo weight in the garage area above the first 800 lbs it starts to dance a little and your truck does not have a heavy duty enough suspension to suppress this action.

..So now, what can you do short of upgrading your truck?

The first thing I would do is to lower your Equalizer one hole as see if this makes any change in the handling. Often times with the nose slightly lower, you will make a big difference in the handling characteristics. It sure did with my F150. Remember, it is better to be slightly nose low than nose high. Even if you are exactly level, I would try this first.

Next, I would try adding some tongue weight on the front. Yes I know you will be getting closer to the payload rating of your truck but I think this will also help your situation greatly. You have a rack on the front where one can easily mount a toolbox or other heavy weight items. You might also consider adding a second battery. This will help with weight and additional boondocking power.

As mentioned by Old Coot, changing tires from P rated to Lt will make a big difference because of stiffer sidewalls. I had BFG all terrain C rated tires on my Ford.

And last would be to change from the factory shocks to heavy duty ones. This will stabilize your ride much more than air bags when towing a trailer. I used the Monroe heavy duties on my Ford.

I would try this things in the order written, starting with the least cost. I think you will be able to get a setup which will be a lot more comfortable for you if you follow these steps, however it will not ever handle like a heavier duty truck.

Good luck with your setup.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by meandmylabs

Ok, now that many of the speculators who have never towed a TH have given their opinion, let me see if I can help you some since I have the exact same trailer and did pull with an older F150.

First of all, the tow ratings have been exaggerated for marketing purposes by most all of the manufacturers. There is no question that your Ecoboost engine has more than enough power and the tranny is very capable of towing the weight of your trailer. Where your problem lies is when you increase the cargo weight in the garage area above the first 800 lbs it starts to dance a little and your truck does not have a heavy duty enough suspension to suppress this action.

..So now, what can you do short of upgrading your truck?

The first thing I would do is to lower your Equalizer one hole as see if this makes any change in the handling. Often times with the nose slightly lower, you will make a big difference in the handling characteristics. It sure did with my F150. Remember, it is better to be slightly nose low than nose high. Even if you are exactly level, I would try this first.

Next, I would try adding some tongue weight on the front. Yes I know you will be getting closer to the payload rating of your truck but I think this will also help your situation greatly. You have a rack on the front where one can easily mount a toolbox or other heavy weight items. You might also consider adding a second battery. This will help with weight and additional boondocking power.

As mentioned by Old Coot, changing tires from P rated to Lt will make a big difference because of stiffer sidewalls. I had BFG all terrain C rated tires on my Ford.

And last would be to change from the factory shocks to heavy duty ones. This will stabilize your ride much more than air bags when towing a trailer. I used the Monroe heavy duties on my Ford.

I would try this things in the order written, starting with the least cost. I think you will be able to get a setup which will be a lot more comfortable for you if you follow these steps, however it will not ever handle like a heavier duty truck.

Good luck with your setup.

I concur with these steps. I also whole-heartedly agree that you are MUCH better off(and much safer) being over payload of the truck if that is required to cut down on sway. Other things I would consider are air bags (plumb them independently) and upgrading to the 4 point Equalizer. These options together are about $1K, so I'd try the others first.

[youroo]

Originally Posted by meandmylabs

Ok, now that many of the speculators who have never towed a TH have given their opinion, let me see if I can help you some since I have the exact same trailer and did pull with an older F150.

First of all, the tow ratings have been exaggerated for marketing purposes by most all of the manufacturers. There is no question that your Ecoboost engine has more than enough power and the tranny is very capable of towing the weight of your trailer. Where your problem lies is when you increase the cargo weight in the garage area above the first 800 lbs it starts to dance a little and your truck does not have a heavy duty enough suspension to suppress this action.

..So now, what can you do short of upgrading your truck?

The first thing I would do is to lower your Equalizer one hole as see if this makes any change in the handling. Often times with the nose slightly lower, you will make a big difference in the handling characteristics. It sure did with my F150. Remember, it is better to be slightly nose low than nose high. Even if you are exactly level, I would try this first.

Next, I would try adding some tongue weight on the front. Yes I know you will be getting closer to the payload rating of your truck but I think this will also help your situation greatly. You have a rack on the front where one can easily mount a toolbox or other heavy weight items. You might also consider adding a second battery. This will help with weight and additional boondocking power.

As mentioned by Old Coot, changing tires from P rated to Lt will make a big difference because of stiffer sidewalls. I had BFG all terrain C rated tires on my Ford.

And last would be to change from the factory shocks to heavy duty ones. This will stabilize your ride much more than air bags when towing a trailer. I used the Monroe heavy duties on my Ford.

I would try this things in the order written, starting with the least cost. I think you will be able to get a setup which will be a lot more comfortable for you if you follow these steps, however it will not ever handle like a heavier duty truck.

Good luck with your setup.

I am one of the (speculators) that wonders why (Big Rigs) have Air bag suspension,when as you say they could just put on HD shocks? Youroo!!

[DDC]

Get a Hensley or a pro-pride and you don't have any sway to worry about.

[youroo]

A (Hensley) will cure the OP problem which is (Not enough TW)? When he adds the (2nd) Harley is when all Hell breaks loose! He is below (10%) TW and Shakes like a Dog passing Peach seeds! Youroo!!

[meandmylabs]

I am one of the (speculators) that wonders why (Big Rigs) have Air bag suspension,when as you say they could just put on HD shocks? Youroo!!

Shocks dampen on both compression and rebound...air bags do not dampen on the rebound.

[1l243]

Until OP weighs his truck and trailer it's all guess work. You have to know what your weights are before you know how to fix it. Most dealers setup a WDH with no weight in the trailer (ie) brand new. When you put weight in it everything changes.

Airbags helped my truck with attitude and porposing. Two anti sway friction bars cured swaying. But then I don't tow at 80mph.

I know how much my Super Duty Diesel works to tow 12,000 lbs I can't imagine a half ton towing that much or 11,300 lbs...

When I saw the ToyotaTundra comercial towing the Space Shuttle I didn't really think it would tow a space shuttle.... Space Shuttle weighs in at 165,000 lbs that would be about 20,000 lbs of tongue weight! Point is manufactures inflate towing capacities to sell more half tons...

Once OP weighs in with both bikes in the back he will know what he has to do for safe towing..