Crusader is Junk, Think twice before you buy

[SidecarFlip]

One thing I've learned over the last 25 years of RV ownership is...

When I buy new (which is about every 6 years), I buy without options other than what is necessary. The more complex it is, the better chance for failure. Don't need all that electronic gizmo stuff or power this and power that because, guess what, it breaks. If not sooner, then later. Sooner is better because it becomes a warranty issue and you can go visit your unit at the dealer and not go camping because you don't have it....or later and it's your dime then.

My philosophy is keep it simple. especially when dealing with the quality build's that FR does....

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

One thing I've learned over the last 25 years of RV ownership is...



When I buy new (which is about every 6 years), I buy without options other than what is necessary. The more complex it is, the better chance for failure. Don't need all that electronic gizmo stuff or power this and power that because, guess what, it breaks. If not sooner, then later. Sooner is better because it becomes a warranty issue and you can go visit your unit at the dealer and not go camping because you don't have it....or later and it's your dime then.



My philosophy is keep it simple. especially when dealing with the quality build's that FR does....

I agree. Simple is better. I have looked at a few RVs with lots of stuff on there and I see complex stuff that isn't required. It is an all encompassing world because every where you go that's how items are produced. Look at the average car/SUV these days. Heated and powered everything. These are only waiting for failure...not to mention the load and complexity to the electrical system.

[SidecarFlip]

Why I keep my 1997 Ford F350 diesel. Simple as a rock and the 7.3 is the best engine Ford ever had (Navistar built). No electronic gizmo's to fail. I have cruise and air, power windows and locks and thats it and it wouldn't have windows and locks but it was part of the Lariat (XLT) package.

\No emissions stuff at all, nothing and what was there (crankcase vapor recirc, I removed years ago Same with my camper. No power anything, no oriental electronic junk, I don't even have ac. Don't need it anyway, I camp in the woods.

The more complex, the better chance you'll be 'visiting it' at the dealer while it's getting repaired. I'm like you... Iwannacamp.

I don't wanna visit it.

The old saying applies to RV's "It don't break in the barn" (or storage lot), it breaks when you go to use it and then you are at the mercy of an overworked dealer because everyone else's is broken too.

People that buy RV's especially cookie cutter mass produced ones, need to get a handle on self repairs... or spend a lot of non camping time and posting their woes on here.

I chuckle at a lot of them myself. I find a lot of entertainment value in this site...

[wicked1]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

Where is your sense of adventure???



When you buy any FR product, I mean ANY, you need to be prepared to be a 'do it yourselfer' person or deal with long vacations with your camper at the dealer being fixed.



Something pops up, I handle it and continue on. I've never had mine to the dealer for work of any kind. RV's are not rocket science in the first place.



If the 'Amish' can slap them together...(pun intended), I can fix their blunders.

For me I like to buy 3 year old units and when I do I find the best one out there, get it for a good price and Yes I do all upgrades repairs myself 99% of the time, also do all PM Maintenance myself.

I feel bad for ppl who go to the shows to buy a unit and take a loan, and it gets stuck at a dealer who blames the MFG and the MFG who blames the dealer and so on.

I rely on help from no one, I was taught by my grandfather to learn how to repair, build and do things myself right the first time.

This is a post mostly for the poor folks who get lemons, are making payments, and get the run a round.

[kohai]

Originally Posted by wicked1

For me I like to buy 3 year old units and when I do I find the best one out there, get it for a good price and Yes I do all upgrades repairs myself 99% of the time, also do all PM Maintenance myself.

I feel bad for ppl who go to the shows to buy a unit and take a loan, and it gets stuck at a dealer who blames the MFG and the MFG who blames the dealer and so on.

I rely on help from no one, I was taught by my grandfather to learn how to repair, build and do things myself right the first time.

This is a post mostly for the poor folks who get lemons, are making payments, and get the run a round.

I think the skill set needed to maintain an RV is a steep learning curve for some of us that don't have the best DIY skills. It creates a barrier to entry for sure. I've done ok so far, but if anything big goes bad I'm up a creek.

[wicked1]

Originally Posted by kohai

I think the skill set needed to maintain an RV is a steep learning curve for some of us that don't have the best DIY skills. It creates a barrier to entry for sure. I've done ok so far, but if anything big goes bad I'm up a creek.

We all learn as we go, I started with Used learned, then went to new, back to a used unit. I did some work on friends units, learned a lot from here and RV 101 and RV Geeks. I will never try something if I am not [emoji817] % Sure or don't have the right tools, but I would say 95% of it most anyone can do as they learn over time.

My biggest issue with mine is getting the facts straight between MFG is Appliances and Prime Time. I think 1/2 the time I feel like MFG of component tells me talk to PT then I call them and they don't know tell me to call say Lippert. Time wasted doing that pisses men off so I learn what I can from all my resources and try to help others here and at CG's when I see someone struggle.

[skipatroller]

IO just bought a 2017 30bh, noticed at the dealer that when the kitchen slide is fully out that it is uneven from one end to the next and the side that doesn't open all the way is 3/4 of an an inch out at the top and on the same side at the bottom it is an 1 1/4 inch out. I brought this to the dealers attention when I bought it, they had 6 weeks before I was to pick it up to repair, when I picked it up it was the same way, nothing done. I spoke to the factory in the meantime and they said if it didn't leak it wasn't a problem so I took it home and set it up in my driveway to start to load my equipment into it. Well after some pretty heavy rains I decided to go check to see if there was any leaking, well lets say I probably had as much water inside as there was outside, needles to say it is at the dealer and after numerous attempts they can't get it to open evenly and to get it to seal, put them on notice that they have 7 days to fix it or to give me my money back. my question is has anyone else have this problem????

[Tiggerdad]

Originally Posted by skipatroller

IO just bought a 2017 30bh, noticed at the dealer that when the kitchen slide is fully out that it is uneven from one end to the next and the side that doesn't open all the way is 3/4 of an an inch out at the top and on the same side at the bottom it is an 1 1/4 inch out. I brought this to the dealers attention when I bought it, they had 6 weeks before I was to pick it up to repair, when I picked it up it was the same way, nothing done. I spoke to the factory in the meantime and they said if it didn't leak it wasn't a problem so I took it home and set it up in my driveway to start to load my equipment into it. Well after some pretty heavy rains I decided to go check to see if there was any leaking, well lets say I probably had as much water inside as there was outside, needles to say it is at the dealer and after numerous attempts they can't get it to open evenly and to get it to seal, put them on notice that they have 7 days to fix it or to give me my money back. my question is has anyone else have this problem????

Sorry to hear of your problems and as one can see from other posts on hear the dealers and manufacturers throw these things together and refuse to repair properly.

The dealer will not refund your money and will continue their poor service. Manufacturers will continue their denials and blame the dealers. Never sign documents until a full inspection is made and repairs completed before pick up. I have heard 100's of posters in this and other foruns say the dealer told them to do a shakedown cruise, bring it back and then all repairs will be made then. Problem with that is they are often incompetent to make repairs, set schedules weeks or months in the future or use lack of parts as excuses.
My first 5er, a Holiday Rambler Savoy and mid-range priced, serviced me for 7 years and over 40,000 miles without any issues and never a trip to the dealer. My current 2013 Prime Time Crusader has been without issue except for the infamous Darco wrap at the bottom of the slide. Many have had issues with it on the large slides but mine is on the Swintek bedroom slide. Leakage on the outside corners created rotten wood. I have repaired it myself. I consider myself lucky.

[wicked1]

Originally Posted by Tiggerdad

Sorry to hear of your problems and as one can see from other posts on hear the dealers and manufacturers throw these things together and refuse to repair properly.



The dealer will not refund your money and will continue their poor service. Manufacturers will continue their denials and blame the dealers. Never sign documents until a full inspection is made and repairs completed before pick up. I have heard 100's of posters in this and other foruns say the dealer told them to do a shakedown cruise, bring it back and then all repairs will be made then. Problem with that is they are often incompetent to make repairs, set schedules weeks or months in the future or use lack of parts as excuses.

My first 5er, a Holiday Rambler Savoy and mid-range priced, serviced me for 7 years and over 40,000 miles without any issues and never a trip to the dealer. My current 2013 Prime Time Crusader has been without issue except for the infamous Darco wrap at the bottom of the slide. Many have had issues with it on the large slides but mine is on the Swintek bedroom slide. Leakage on the outside corners created rotten wood. I have repaired it myself. I consider myself lucky.

Hey on the Crusader what are the signs, I have a 2013 and it shows a little sign or wearing on the bottom of the kitchen slide by the door. I have drowned my RV in water when we got it to see if there were any leaks, and I have been cleaning and resealing everything. I heard PT's fix for the underside wearing of the slides is expensive, because they have to prop the slide up to put Aluminum under it, I for one don't have the space or tools to do that myself.

[kohai]

Originally Posted by skipatroller

IO just bought a 2017 30bh, noticed at the dealer that when the kitchen slide is fully out that it is uneven from one end to the next and the side that doesn't open all the way is 3/4 of an an inch out at the top and on the same side at the bottom it is an 1 1/4 inch out. I brought this to the dealers attention when I bought it, they had 6 weeks before I was to pick it up to repair, when I picked it up it was the same way, nothing done. I spoke to the factory in the meantime and they said if it didn't leak it wasn't a problem so I took it home and set it up in my driveway to start to load my equipment into it. Well after some pretty heavy rains I decided to go check to see if there was any leaking, well lets say I probably had as much water inside as there was outside, needles to say it is at the dealer and after numerous attempts they can't get it to open evenly and to get it to seal, put them on notice that they have 7 days to fix it or to give me my money back. my question is has anyone else have this problem????

My advice: you are your own service writer when it comes to repairs at a dealer. Don't assume they will be pro-active, or that they will try to provide good service, call you back, or even order the parts right. You have to do the following up, be persistent to the point of almost pushy, be polite but consistent, escalate to the manager when necessary. They end up on your speed dial because you're checking back with them that much.

That's the only way to keep your rig from constantly being pushed down the list of things-to-do-today.

[Paulie1138]

Wicked, on mine, they used a type of hard slippery plastic. The plastic has a short lip that goes up under the molding at the bottom of the slide. I sweet talked myself with the dealer to let me watch the repair. They used a floor jack and blocking to lift up one side at a time, just far enough to slip the piece in far enough to be past the slip-blocks P.T. uses for the slide guide. Those pieces are sealed and screwed into the bottom of the slides and the bottom side moldings replaced.

The give away that you are having troubles, is to look at your darco-wrap. (looks like black poly weave tarp material) If that stuff is beginning to fray or abrade where the slide blocks are, then you are losing the water seal under your slide. Some of the PT units have another layer of protection under the darco stuff, but it too will soon rub off because of the friction rub from the slide guides.

Yes, I do think there should have been rollers under the slide, but the plastic or nylon slide protectors seem to be working great so far. I am told that you should contact P.T. to see of they will give you what you need. Mine needed it on the opposing slides, but not the smaller slide in the bedroom. Mine was done under warranty, right after I got my unit. It was caught by me during the PDI, and the help of this forum from others having the same trouble.

If you are handy, and they will send you the protectors, then it should be a relatively easy D.I.Y. project. PROVIDING you have just a little bit of clearance at the top of your slide like mine had to lift the unit. Just remember, the stuff is almost 1/4 inch thick, so do both sides of each slide, or your slide may be out of whack by that amount. My unit did not need adjustment after the things went on. In fact, they looked better with them.

[wicked1]

Originally Posted by Paulie1138

Wicked, on mine, they used a type of hard slippery plastic. The plastic has a short lip that goes up under the molding at the bottom of the slide. I sweet talked myself with the dealer to let me watch the repair. They used a floor jack and blocking to lift up one side at a time, just far enough to slip the piece in far enough to be past the slip-blocks P.T. uses for the slide guide. Those pieces are sealed and screwed into the bottom of the slides and the bottom side moldings replaced.



The give away that you are having troubles, is to look at your darco-wrap. (looks like black poly weave tarp material) If that stuff is beginning to fray or abrade where the slide blocks are, then you are losing the water seal under your slide. Some of the PT units have another layer of protection under the darco stuff, but it too will soon rub off because of the friction rub from the slide guides.



Yes, I do think there should have been rollers under the slide, but the plastic or nylon slide protectors seem to be working great so far. I am told that you should contact P.T. to see of they will give you what you need. Mine needed it on the opposing slides, but not the smaller slide in the bedroom. Mine was done under warranty, right after I got my unit. It was caught by me during the PDI, and the help of this forum from others having the same trouble.



If you are handy, and they will send you the protectors, then it should be a relatively easy D.I.Y. project. PROVIDING you have just a little bit of clearance at the top of your slide like mine had to lift the unit. Just remember, the stuff is almost 1/4 inch thick, so do both sides of each slide, or your slide may be out of whack by that amount. My unit did not need adjustment after the things went on. In fact, they looked better with them.

Going to call PT sad they won't cover under warranty but if they send me the stuff I will get jacks and do it myself. I heard someone on here say it can cost like $1500 to have someone do it, and if it is that easy I can handle it.

Thanks for the info

[Paulie1138]

Just a quick note, you do not need lift much, and spread out your lifting point. I found on the internet somewhere, there is a tutorial about adjusting your slide. It also describes how to lift the side of the slide. But, essentially, how I described earlier. Watch your fingers.....LOL!

[Paulie1138]

Wicked1, I have also heard some out there have used sheet metal shaped as I mentioned. If you go that route, use some sort of dry lube, or polished metal, as it may abrade the nylon (or whatever it is) material that is used for the slide guide. Also, do not open the slide fully- just within a couple of inches of full, and lift close to the middle of the side you are working on, so to lift that side. You may have to move the jack a bit to find the center of gravity for the side you are lifting. It does not take much, so be careful or you can tweak the slide itself.

I will post an after pic of what was done. Here is the before.

[Platokidd]

Originally Posted by Paulie1138

Wicked, on mine, they used a type of hard slippery plastic. The plastic has a short lip that goes up under the molding at the bottom of the slide. I sweet talked myself with the dealer to let me watch the repair. They used a floor jack and blocking to lift up one side at a time, just far enough to slip the piece in far enough to be past the slip-blocks P.T. uses for the slide guide. Those pieces are sealed and screwed into the bottom of the slides and the bottom side moldings replaced.

The give away that you are having troubles, is to look at your darco-wrap. (looks like black poly weave tarp material) If that stuff is beginning to fray or abrade where the slide blocks are, then you are losing the water seal under your slide. Some of the PT units have another layer of protection under the darco stuff, but it too will soon rub off because of the friction rub from the slide guides.

Yes, I do think there should have been rollers under the slide, but the plastic or nylon slide protectors seem to be working great so far. I am told that you should contact P.T. to see of they will give you what you need. Mine needed it on the opposing slides, but not the smaller slide in the bedroom. Mine was done under warranty, right after I got my unit. It was caught by me during the PDI, and the help of this forum from others having the same trouble.

If you are handy, and they will send you the protectors, then it should be a relatively easy D.I.Y. project. PROVIDING you have just a little bit of clearance at the top of your slide like mine had to lift the unit. Just remember, the stuff is almost 1/4 inch thick, so do both sides of each slide, or your slide may be out of whack by that amount. My unit did not need adjustment after the things went on. In fact, they looked better with them.

When they did mine the tech installed the strips just up to the wear bar.
The strips climb right up w/o issue. No jacking of slide needed. At first I didnt like that idea but it works fine 3 years now.
If you look at the second pic maybe you can envision the strip just at the radius of the bar. (when closed)http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post624479

[Paulie1138]

Plato, that would probably work as well. I would wonder if there was a possibility of that strip hanging up at some point during the initial closing, or folding back. When I spoke to Roger at PT who authorized my repairs, said it should go all the way in-past the slide guide. He indicated the thickness may cause the slide to jump a bit as it changed the levels.