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Old 09-08-2013, 01:37 PM   #81
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Please keep us posted on how that works. CorrPlast will compress because it is honeycombed and I doubt that contact cement will cause it to stick.
I dont think the core plastic is the answer for the prime time slide problem that this thread refers too. I also have a sign biz, and I use core plastic for that and found many other uses for it. So I can say with no doubt its not the fix! It will wear , tear , crush and bunch.
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:46 PM   #82
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...but with a manufacturing and engineering background a lot of what occurs in the RV business leaves me wondering... Why?!?
Cause the bean counters say so. If we let engineers build everything as it could be built, stuff would last way too long.
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #83
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You make a good point about engineered wood. I have so far resisted the urge to cut a small hole in the barrier on mine to see if it is MDF. I suspect it is because of the way screws go in.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #84
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Cause the bean counters say so. If we let engineers build everything as it could be built, stuff would last way too long.
Ha! No doubt why they made me diversify and become a manager in manufacturing. There is a fine line between cost and engineering - but to reduce costs requires to prudently test your concept. In the RV business the test subjects are $20-150k units folks like to vacation in!
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #85
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You make a good point about engineered wood. I have so far resisted the urge to cut a small hole in the barrier on mine to see if it is MDF. I suspect it is because of the way screws go in.
Cedar Creek and a few others tried engineered wood with little success when left exposed - it resulted in the edges swelling, pulling through the fasteners, and ultimately slide floor failure.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:06 AM   #86
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Any word yet on a fix from PT?
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:18 AM   #87
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Will be taking our 295rst in to the dealer in two weeks. Should be interesting on what they say about the under slide wear. Only been out 3 times (2013) nothing should wear that quickly
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:37 PM   #88
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I wanted to address some aspects of this situation as it certainly is generating a lot of attention.

Essentially, there are three different types of slide floors that we use at Prime Time and all of them are being lumped into the same conversation on this thread.

1) Darco wrapped - This design is primarily used on Crusader and Sanibel sofa/dinette superslides. Basically, we wrap and glue the underside of the wood floor in a breathable, durable fabric that provides protection to the underside of the floor. This material is commonly called Darco. A huge percentage of the industry uses this application. It's lightweight and durable, but does have a tendency to tear and rip. This is a one-piece type of application that will NOT have the tape edges that are fraying in some of the above posts. For our first couple of years, we used Darco wrapped slides on all of our superslide floors, but we have transitioned away from this design in our travel trailers and will eventually transition away from this design on fifth wheels, too.

We do experience warranty claims on this material, but at this point, we don't think the Darco-wrapped floors are showing excessive wear as it pertains to this thread. The claims we receive on Darco are for tears and rips.

2) Pre-Engineered Board - Most of our travel trailers use a Pre-Engineered Slide Floor for their sofa/dinette superslides. This is basically a board that we buy pre-cut that already has a sealant applied to the bottom and edges. The benefit to this application is that the applied sealant is much more durable than the Darco and eliminates warranty from tears and rips. Even though this Pre-Engineered Board does have sealant applied to the edges and is fully warranted as it comes to us, we have chosen to apply an extra measure of protection for the edges in the form of Darco tape. This is a product very similar to what is used in application 1 above, but it has an adhesive applied on one side. This tape is what is fraying in many of the pictures above.

We feel strongly that the extra layer of protection afforded by the Darco tape on the edges is beneficial. Obviously, having it fray and look like it does in some of the photos is NOT desirable. We are looking at different tapes and different methods of wrapping the tape to eliminate the fraying causing by the friction. What we are recommending at this point, is to trim the tape flush with the slide floor edge so that you will retain the extra layer of moisture protection and eliminate the excess on the bottom that is fraying. Keep in mind, the edge is sealed and warranted without the tape. It does not have to be there - we just like the added protection.

This type of Pre-Engineered board is likely being used when one of the "L" shaped pieces of plastic molding is applied on the edges of the floor. This was referenced several times in previous posts on this topic. We DO NOT recommend this molding as a cap. It has the potential to dig into your carpet and linoleum.

3) Laminated - Most of our Kitchen slides in all brands are made in-house using laminated construction due to the increased weight loads. With a laminated floor, the bottom exterior layer is a product called FloorBrace. FloorBrace is comprised of multiple layers of cross-weaved polyester fibers designed to breath yet provide moisture protection. Adding the laminated layer of FloorBrace increases the strength of the floor as well. The inner layers of FloorBrace are white. The manufacturer has applied a cosmetic layer of black material on the outside simply because leaving it white makes no sense in any applications in our industry. In order to seal the edges of these laminated floors, we apply Darco tape. Again, this is what can be seen fraying in several of the pictures.

The Darco tape can NOT be totally removed from the edge of a laminated floor (like you can on the Pre Engineered Board) as it provides the primary moisture barrier. However, it can be trimmed back to be flush with the floor edge which will eliminate the fraying aspect.

The wearing of the black top coat on the FloorBrace seems to be the biggest issue outside of the fraying tape. We don't have any conclusive answers on this yet. Samples have been sent to the manufacturer and they are actually flying in to see us this week from Seattle for more conversations. We will keep you updated on what we find.
I finally had a chance to look at the bottom of all 3 slides on our 3600 Sanibel. The bedroom slide has the Schwintek slide with 4 rollers and the Darco wrap and NO tape. This has no visual damage to the Darco wrap.
The dining slide has the same Darco wrap with NO tape. It is fraying on the edges and in the middle. Looking at this slide I find NO rollers. The side edge is dragged on the Darco wrap over a black nylon(?) curved blocks attached to the floor at the edges and middle of the slide.
The kitchen slide has the Darco wrap and tape on the bottom near the rack gear. The front tape has pealed back. (I trimmed it off.) The wrap is fraying and turning white. (This wrap looks to me like a teflon tape weave.) This slide also has NO rollers and is dragged on a full length strip of black nylon(?) curved block (looks like a speed bump). Any amount of dirt on the block or the Darco wrap is going to cause damage to the wrap.
In my opinion, I think 4, thin, flat teflon skid plates are needed under the dining room and the kitchen slides to stop the damage to the wrap.
Our unit is on a seasonal site. The slides are used 2 times a month to prevent corrosion to the rams. At this rate, the wrap will be gone is 3 years.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:08 AM   #89
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That was my thought on the repair but I was going to use nylon strips(5 under the dining room slide and 3 under the bunkhouse slide)12" w x however long x .093"(3/32") thick fastened with adhesive and some mechanical fasteners(screws) but I just wonder how the strip under the slide will hold up to the nylon? and if that becomes a problem I was thinking of adding some type of material on top of the strip that can be replaced if needed without a lot of trouble.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:08 AM   #90
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I have to wonder if rollers are the answer. It seems to me that the Schwintek slides are not wearing. Now I realize they are much smaller, but there are rollers on those slides.

I have yet to bring my unit in to my dealer, but I will do so in the next few weeks and I hope a plan is devised before then. In my case PT believes there is another cause for the extreme wear, but I am seeing wear in other areas.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:46 PM   #91
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Im not sure the slide bottom can handle rollers on the fridge slide.
im going to look at this part in next few days.
part number 10F009458 slide out repair panels attachet with gorrila tape and then usE slide slickers on the carpet and Masonite on the flooring. . Although Pt has shot it down. Its the best answer so far. Still waiting for a pt cure.......
Mine goes in next week for several repairs, hope pt comes through with a GOOD FIX.
A wear strip / rollers?? or both ?? is the only fix thats gonna last. Band-aids and duck tape wont last.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #92
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Agreed - Gorilla tape is not the answer - I tried it already and it just bunches up the first time the slide is retracted.

The thin wear strip idea makes the most sense to me, but attaching it needs to be correct.
I'm working an idea in my head which involves 6" wide strips of counter laminate (Formica). It is very hard, smooth, slippery and very thin. Sanding the leading edge (toward the trailer) to a knife edge so the transition is smooth would be necessary.
I have some extra at home that I'm thinking about using on my dinette slide, where it is only an issue so far.
As for attaching it, I'm not sure what would work best to adhere to the Darco wrap, but I'm thinking about cutting out some small areas of it to get the adhesive to stick to the wood bottom and the laminate strips. Maybe some good construction adhesive?

I have to do something as my rig goes into storage in two weeks, and my warranty is up in early spring, plus I do not want any reason to bring my 5er to my dealer. I don't trust them. I've taken care of everything needed myself so far, probably better too.

If I do this, I'll be sure to share it here.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:20 PM   #93
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Gorilla tape bunches when to attach the wear strip??,
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:12 PM   #94
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Gorilla tape bunches when to attach the wear strip??,
Gorilla tape bunches when it is taped directly to the Darco wrap. Something hard and smooth/slick (sorry, the best way to describe it) needs to slide against what appears to be some type of black plastic guide. That is where I got the laminate idea.

I tried contact cement, but it will not adhere to the Darco. I'm testing some LocTite all purpose construction adhesive right now in a test area. If this works, I plan to cut some laminate strips and glue one in on one side to do a test.
For my dinette slide, the wear is on both ends, probably because this is where the slide room load is transferred to the floor assy by the front and back walls.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:06 PM   #95
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Gorilla tape bunches when it is taped directly to the Darco wrap. Something hard and smooth/slick (sorry, the best way to describe it) needs to slide against what appears to be some type of black plastic guide. That is where I got the laminate idea.

I tried contact cement, but it will not adhere to the Darco. I'm testing some LocTite all purpose construction adhesive right now in a test area. If this works, I plan to cut some laminate strips and glue one in on one side to do a test.
For my dinette slide, the wear is on both ends, probably because this is where the slide room load is transferred to the floor assy by the front and back walls.
You could try some 3M 4000 or 5200 adhesive- sealant but rough up the Darco first. You could get something thicker drill and counter sink the holes and use small screws to hold it up, the adhesive will take the sheer load plus make the strips longer so they stay between the slide and that black plastic strip.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:53 PM   #96
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Please don't use 5200. It is extremely permanent (as in can never be removed).
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:22 PM   #97
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This link has a good write-up & pictures on the repair plus links to materials:
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Slide Floor Water Damage (Long with lots of pics)
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This looks to be the tape used: Flexmend Belly Tape | Mobile Home Repair
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:48 PM   #98
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This link has a good write-up & pictures on the repair plus links to materials:
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Slide Floor Water Damage (Long with lots of pics)
-
This looks to be the tape used: Flexmend Belly Tape | Mobile Home Repair
Great post!!!!!!!
nice nice links! and his dont even look worn except for the holes.
.Not gonna let that happen to mine. You have to read thru that whole thread to really see the damage.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:48 PM   #99
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That is an interesting post. That Solaris was a mess.
I do like the drip edge idea on the bottom of the rooms.

I don't believe the Flexmend tape is the answer either given the high friction caused at the floor when sliding. This was evidenced with my Gorilla tape test, and is what is causing the Darco to fail as well.

It's now obvious to me that adhesive is not the answer for applying my laminate strip idea as the construction adhesive test I tried failed miserably. Not much will stick to the slippery Darco.

Given that I already have worn Darco to the point of exposed flooring, I thought some type of fastener would be OK to try, but the laminate is to thin to allow for any type of screw, even if you tried to countersink them (I did, no success). Whatever slides against the mating floor guide (not sure what to call it) needs to be as sooth as possible as not to gouge the guide, so screw heads, etc. are not options.

Success!
I decided to use a staple gun to attach the strips. The staples are exposed, but doing it a certain way, and hammering them in as much as possible minimizes the risk of damaging the guide as much as possible. Hopefully you can what the orientation of the staples is, which is important. It's also important to make sure there is a angled leading edge where it meets the guide so it rides up over it easily, rather than butting into it. This is simply done by sanding or a file.
I installed one and it tested great, so I installed the other, ran the room in and out a couple of times and it worked quite well. Actually it moved very smoothly.

Here's a pic of what one side looks like.


Time will tell, but I'm encouraged by the results so far. If I change my mind, they can be removed without damage to the room floor.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:53 PM   #100
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ZS-Please keep us posted as to how well your mod. holds up.
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