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05-02-2011, 07:00 AM
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#1
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,525
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Generators and StaBil and Ethanol (oh my!)
Just when we thought we had this generator and gas and
long term storage figured out there's this.
My son has a muscle car. GTO cherry under 10K miles.
He only drives it in dry summer weather.
He uses stabil like many of us in our generators and
lawn mowers and boats and motorcycles.
This spring he got the car out and it started and ran
but was under powered and had a rough idle.
(Rough is a relative term- he has a semi race cam
in it.)
Long story but the jist of it is he looked online and
the hot rod muscle car crowd has found that ethanol
separates from the gas during storage.
Apparently StaBil doesn't prevent this.
He said he siphoned a lot of it out and put some in a
jar and you could see 2 layers in the gas.
He gave it to his buddy to burn in his daily driver and
now only puts a small amount in his GTO so he can
burn it on short trips. He basically buys a couple gallons
each time he takes the car out and tries to park it close
to empty.
I have not googled this subject but let the discussion
begin!
__________________
Peace!
Dan & Rita D
2017 Nissan Titan 5.6L King cab 4wd
2016 Evergreen Everlite 242RBS
29' empty nest model. Blue Ox WD hitch
(1 queen bed, large main cabin and huge bathroom)
Camping days 2010-53, 2011-47, 2012-41, 2013-41, 2014-31, 2015-40, 2016-44, 2017-63, 2018-75, 2019-32, 2020-41, 2021-49, 2022-43, 2023-66
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05-02-2011, 07:04 AM
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#2
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,269
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I have actually heard about this before, but did not think about the implications to the RV world.
The discussion came up among "boat people" who winterize their boats. They put them away with full gas tanks for some reason and a discussion about additive separation was what I "over heard." That must have been what they were talking about.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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05-02-2011, 07:15 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Southwest Louisiana
Posts: 747
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Ethanol attacks water and a boat tank is vented. so if you put it away empty it attracks more water into the tank. Stabil does make a marine Ethanol treatment now.
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05-02-2011, 07:24 AM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,525
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FYI the GTO is late model, last year they were made.
So it has sealed fuel system, unlike a boat that is vented.
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05-02-2011, 07:32 AM
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#5
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Wanna Be Camper
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,420
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Use Seafoam. It is one of the most used products out there and it plain works as advertised. FYI Stabil in the bottle only has a shelf life of 2 years max, so if he had the bottle of stabil laying around for any time it was probably bad to start with. When I used to use it I only kept it for the year I actually bought it, but I use seafoam for everything now from adding a can to the gas tank every 10k to a fuel stabilizer to doing the though the brake booster vacuum line clean up.
From your last post I am now assuming it is the Aussie GTO with the Vette style fuelie small block, so ya it shouldn't have any issue running ethanol blend fuel.
http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-u...treatment.html
__________________
John & Deb
2011 F250 Lariat FX4 Crew Cab 6.2
2011 Flagstaff V-Lite 30WRLS
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05-02-2011, 09:34 AM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 58
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I don't know the ins and outs of how these additives work. But I use sea-foam and Phase Guard 4 in everything. Phase 4 for storage over 30 days, and the sea-foam in the spring for cleaning the systems. I've stored fuel for over a year and never had issues with any of my equipment, generators, or vehicles. Some which is pretty old. I buy them at Fisher Auto. I've also used the sea-foam after it's sat on the shelf for 2 years plus, with no ill effects.
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05-02-2011, 09:52 AM
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#7
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Wanna Be Camper
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingGoatee
I've also used the sea-foam after it's sat on the shelf for 2 years plus, with no ill effects.
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I was talking about the Stabil having a shelf life not Seafoam. BTW seafoam is a very good stabliizer and can be used to store fuel for up to 2 years.
__________________
John & Deb
2011 F250 Lariat FX4 Crew Cab 6.2
2011 Flagstaff V-Lite 30WRLS
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05-02-2011, 10:02 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSasks
I was talking about the Stabil having a shelf life not Seafoam. BTW seafoam is a very good stabliizer and can be used to store fuel for up to 2 years.
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I know, just giving my experience with what I use.
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05-02-2011, 01:22 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSasks
From your last post I am now assuming it is the Aussie GTO with the Vette style fuelie small block, so ya it shouldn't have any issue running ethanol blend fuel.
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He has issues with ethanol.
Here's his specs.
Note the HP listed is actual dyno tested at the rear wheels.
364cu in 6.0L LS2 aluminum block and heads pushrod v-8
Replaced from stock - L92 heads, valves, springs, rockers, ceramic coated
headers, 3" dual exhaust, L76 intake manifold, mild livernois cam, .040
stainless cometic head gaskets to keep the compression up, ARP head bolts,
3.91:1 gears in the rear, Hankook drag radials out back.
Compression is around 10.9:1, and the engine currently makes 540Hp.
0-60mph in 4 seconds, 0-100 in under 9 seconds.
__________________
Peace!
Dan & Rita D
2017 Nissan Titan 5.6L King cab 4wd
2016 Evergreen Everlite 242RBS
29' empty nest model. Blue Ox WD hitch
(1 queen bed, large main cabin and huge bathroom)
Camping days 2010-53, 2011-47, 2012-41, 2013-41, 2014-31, 2015-40, 2016-44, 2017-63, 2018-75, 2019-32, 2020-41, 2021-49, 2022-43, 2023-66
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05-02-2011, 03:22 PM
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#10
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Wanna Be Camper
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyDan
He has issues with ethanol.
Here's his specs.
Note the HP listed is actual dyno tested at the rear wheels.
364cu in 6.0L LS2 aluminum block and heads pushrod v-8
Replaced from stock - L92 heads, valves, springs, rockers, ceramic coated
headers, 3" dual exhaust, L76 intake manifold, mild livernois cam, .040
stainless cometic head gaskets to keep the compression up, ARP head bolts,
3.91:1 gears in the rear, Hankook drag radials out back.
Compression is around 10.9:1, and the engine currently makes 540Hp.
0-60mph in 4 seconds, 0-100 in under 9 seconds.
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Petty impressive machine Dan. IMO Seafoam would work well for that machine, those late model small blocks are monsters. Alot of marine people rely on it with their high $$ machine.
__________________
John & Deb
2011 F250 Lariat FX4 Crew Cab 6.2
2011 Flagstaff V-Lite 30WRLS
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05-14-2011, 06:41 PM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyDan
Note the HP listed is actual dyno tested at the rear wheels.
364cu in 6.0L LS2 aluminum block and heads pushrod v-8
Replaced from stock - L92 heads, valves, springs, rockers, ceramic coated
headers, 3" dual exhaust, L76 intake manifold, mild livernois cam, .040
stainless cometic head gaskets to keep the compression up, ARP head bolts,
3.91:1 gears in the rear, Hankook drag radials out back.
Compression is around 10.9:1, and the engine currently makes 540Hp.
0-60mph in 4 seconds, 0-100 in under 9 seconds.
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Can I ride in his car?
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06-04-2011, 10:17 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bronston, KY
Posts: 734
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Hi, Dan:
I would be nervous about storing my car with the tank near empty. Even though that is a closed system, there is a mechanism that allows air in to replace the pumped fuel. Given where you live, there is still a lot of humidity in that air and a lot of winter time temp variation. I would be afraid of condensation.
My guess is that your son was running on nearly pure ethanol or whatever actually settled to the bottom of the tank.
I know from experience that boat engines (Mercruiser) made prior to 1986 cannot use ethanol unless the carb rubber gaskets and "O" rings have been replaced.
Are there still gasoline suppliers in your area that do not add ethanol? If you can find one of those, I would use that fuel for winter storage..Still stabilized with something..
Bill
__________________
Life is a journey, not a destination.
2005 Georgetown 359ts
Bill & Virginia, Kentucky
Nights camped in 2011...78 , 2012...73,
Nights camped in 2013...123, 2014 ...101
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07-06-2011, 09:58 AM
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#13
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PINTO
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Addis Louisiana
Posts: 86
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With the list posted of all the things in the motor. I would NEVER use fuel with Ethanol in it. If local stations do not offer gasoline without ethanol he should try to find a local auto speed shop and purchase special fuel, like VP or Sonoco. Also if there is a local station that offers a non-ethanol gasoline he should purchase "Premium or Super". This has additives in it already and I use it in my boats and lawn mowers etc. No Stabil or any other additives needed. Fond this out while working a a refinery down here in Louisiana. The higher the octane rating the better for his machine! In the long run it is the cheaper way.
__________________
PINTO
2011 Fuzion 325
2015 Duramax Diesel
Chevy 3500 LT Dually
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10-23-2012, 07:38 PM
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#14
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4
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What a timely discussion. I have the 2011, F53 chassis and want to siphon the existing fuel and put fresh fuel in. I must have around 20 gallons in the tank.
Has anyone done this? I'm concerned that the hose I use might get stuck and not be able to take it out! I heard there are obstacles to prevent gas theft.
Any thoughts?
Oh, in my manual it stresses not to use any after market fuel additives, it may affect your warranty! Wow!
thank you,
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10-23-2012, 11:14 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 903
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In my owners manual that came with my camper for my Onan onboard genset it says in about 5 different spots through out the manual DO NOT USE GASOLINE THAT CONTAINS ETHANOL. I had known this and was for sure not gonna do it. I learned about the damaging affect in the ice fishing world after multiple people had been having problems with their ice augers. I don't use gas that has ethanol in anything I own except my truck. I go through it so fast that it will not effect it. It's when the fuel will sit for period of time when the ethanol in gas will start causing problems.
__________________
2012 Sandstorm 203slc
2013 Toyota Tundra
Eqil-l-izer hitch,Prodigy P3
2014 Honda Pioneer 700-4
2004 Yamaha Grizzly 660
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10-24-2012, 06:18 AM
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#16
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Use startron then you can use ethanol.
Used startron in my 2009 800 r skidoo for 5000 miles that required non ethanol fuel.
Snowmobiles are one of the worse for running ethanol in because of such extreme temperatures.
Turbs
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11-14-2012, 12:17 AM
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#17
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
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All good posts. Like Wyo700 said, I only use ethanol fuel in my truck because I burn through a tank every week.
For all my small engines... Lawn Mower, Blower, Dirt Bikes, and the tank in my toy hauler that feeds my gen set and toys, I will not ever use Ethanol Fuel. Luckily, there is still one station in town that still has Non-Ethanol-Supreme. I use too have so many issues with the fuel systems in my high-performance small engines until I finally figured out it was caused by the damn Ethanol.
I have used Stabil for the last 3 winters in all my tanks, and it seems to keep the fuel in good order and I haven't had any issues in the spring so I'll likely stick to the same program (until the government forces stations to get rid of ALL Non-Ethanol Fuel....).
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11-18-2012, 10:13 PM
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#18
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Oklahoma Proud
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: central OK
Posts: 2,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769
I have actually heard about this before, but did not think about the implications to the RV world.
The discussion came up among "boat people" who winterize their boats. They put them away with full gas tanks for some reason and a discussion about additive separation was what I "over heard." That must have been what they were talking about.
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They say to store the tanks full to prevent condensation moisture in the tank. More air in a tank- higher chance of condensation when the air cools. I have always been told to store tanks full on equipment, drag tanks, and boats durring cooler weather to keep water out of fuel.
I only put 100% in everything except our cars. The alcohol is hard on rubber.
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