Generators and StaBil and Ethanol (oh my!)

**KyDan** · 05-02-2011, 07:00 AM

Just when we thought we had this generator and gas and
long term storage figured out there's this.

My son has a muscle car. GTO cherry under 10K miles.
He only drives it in dry summer weather.
He uses stabil like many of us in our generators and
lawn mowers and boats and motorcycles.

This spring he got the car out and it started and ran
but was under powered and had a rough idle.
(Rough is a relative term- he has a semi race cam
in it.)

Long story but the jist of it is he looked online and
the hot rod muscle car crowd has found that ethanol
separates from the gas during storage.
Apparently StaBil doesn't prevent this.
He said he siphoned a lot of it out and put some in a
jar and you could see 2 layers in the gas.
He gave it to his buddy to burn in his daily driver and
now only puts a small amount in his GTO so he can
burn it on short trips. He basically buys a couple gallons
each time he takes the car out and tries to park it close
to empty.

I have not googled this subject but let the discussion
begin!

**Herk7769** · 05-02-2011, 07:04 AM

I have actually heard about this before, but did not think about the implications to the RV world.

The discussion came up among "boat people" who winterize their boats. They put them away with full gas tanks for some reason and a discussion about additive separation was what I "over heard." That must have been what they were talking about.

papap · 05-02-2011, 07:15 AM

Ethanol attacks water and a boat tank is vented. so if you put it away empty it attracks more water into the tank. Stabil does make a marine Ethanol treatment now.

**KyDan** · 05-02-2011, 07:24 AM

FYI the GTO is late model, last year they were made.
So it has sealed fuel system, unlike a boat that is vented.

SaskCampers · 05-02-2011, 07:32 AM

Use Seafoam. It is one of the most used products out there and it plain works as advertised. FYI Stabil in the bottle only has a shelf life of 2 years max, so if he had the bottle of stabil laying around for any time it was probably bad to start with. When I used to use it I only kept it for the year I actually bought it, but I use seafoam for everything now from adding a can to the gas tank every 10k to a fuel stabilizer to doing the though the brake booster vacuum line clean up.

From your last post I am now assuming it is the Aussie GTO with the Vette style fuelie small block, so ya it shouldn't have any issue running ethanol blend fuel.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-u...treatment.html

GrowingGoatee · 05-02-2011, 09:34 AM

I don't know the ins and outs of how these additives work. But I use sea-foam and Phase Guard 4 in everything. Phase 4 for storage over 30 days, and the sea-foam in the spring for cleaning the systems. I've stored fuel for over a year and never had issues with any of my equipment, generators, or vehicles. Some which is pretty old. I buy them at Fisher Auto. I've also used the sea-foam after it's sat on the shelf for 2 years plus, with no ill effects.

SaskCampers · 05-02-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingGoatee

I've also used the sea-foam after it's sat on the shelf for 2 years plus, with no ill effects.

I was talking about the Stabil having a shelf life not Seafoam. BTW seafoam is a very good stabliizer and can be used to store fuel for up to 2 years.

GrowingGoatee · 05-02-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSasks

I was talking about the Stabil having a shelf life not Seafoam. BTW seafoam is a very good stabliizer and can be used to store fuel for up to 2 years.

I know, just giving my experience with what I use.

**KyDan** · 05-02-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSasks

From your last post I am now assuming it is the Aussie GTO with the Vette style fuelie small block, so ya it shouldn't have any issue running ethanol blend fuel.

He has issues with ethanol.
Here's his specs.
Note the HP listed is actual dyno tested at the rear wheels.
364cu in 6.0L LS2 aluminum block and heads pushrod v-8
Replaced from stock - L92 heads, valves, springs, rockers, ceramic coated
headers, 3" dual exhaust, L76 intake manifold, mild livernois cam, .040
stainless cometic head gaskets to keep the compression up, ARP head bolts,
3.91:1 gears in the rear, Hankook drag radials out back.
Compression is around 10.9:1, and the engine currently makes 540Hp.
0-60mph in 4 seconds, 0-100 in under 9 seconds.

SaskCampers · 05-02-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyDan

He has issues with ethanol.
Here's his specs.
Note the HP listed is actual dyno tested at the rear wheels.
364cu in 6.0L LS2 aluminum block and heads pushrod v-8
Replaced from stock - L92 heads, valves, springs, rockers, ceramic coated
headers, 3" dual exhaust, L76 intake manifold, mild livernois cam, .040
stainless cometic head gaskets to keep the compression up, ARP head bolts,
3.91:1 gears in the rear, Hankook drag radials out back.
Compression is around 10.9:1, and the engine currently makes 540Hp.
0-60mph in 4 seconds, 0-100 in under 9 seconds.

Petty impressive machine Dan. IMO Seafoam would work well for that machine, those late model small blocks are monsters. Alot of marine people rely on it with their high $$ machine.

jconnally · 05-14-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyDan

Note the HP listed is actual dyno tested at the rear wheels.
364cu in 6.0L LS2 aluminum block and heads pushrod v-8
Replaced from stock - L92 heads, valves, springs, rockers, ceramic coated
headers, 3" dual exhaust, L76 intake manifold, mild livernois cam, .040
stainless cometic head gaskets to keep the compression up, ARP head bolts,
3.91:1 gears in the rear, Hankook drag radials out back.
Compression is around 10.9:1, and the engine currently makes 540Hp.
0-60mph in 4 seconds, 0-100 in under 9 seconds.

Can I ride in his car?

bend302 · 06-04-2011, 10:17 AM

Hi, Dan:

I would be nervous about storing my car with the tank near empty. Even though that is a closed system, there is a mechanism that allows air in to replace the pumped fuel. Given where you live, there is still a lot of humidity in that air and a lot of winter time temp variation. I would be afraid of condensation.

My guess is that your son was running on nearly pure ethanol or whatever actually settled to the bottom of the tank.

I know from experience that boat engines (Mercruiser) made prior to 1986 cannot use ethanol unless the carb rubber gaskets and "O" rings have been replaced.

Are there still gasoline suppliers in your area that do not add ethanol? If you can find one of those, I would use that fuel for winter storage..Still stabilized with something..

Bill

Kpinto · 07-06-2011, 09:58 AM

With the list posted of all the things in the motor. I would NEVER use fuel with Ethanol in it. If local stations do not offer gasoline without ethanol he should try to find a local auto speed shop and purchase special fuel, like VP or Sonoco. Also if there is a local station that offers a non-ethanol gasoline he should purchase "Premium or Super". This has additives in it already and I use it in my boats and lawn mowers etc. No Stabil or any other additives needed. Fond this out while working a a refinery down here in Louisiana. The higher the octane rating the better for his machine! In the long run it is the cheaper way.

j_adventurer · 10-23-2012, 07:38 PM

What a timely discussion. I have the 2011, F53 chassis and want to siphon the existing fuel and put fresh fuel in. I must have around 20 gallons in the tank.

Has anyone done this? I'm concerned that the hose I use might get stuck and not be able to take it out! I heard there are obstacles to prevent gas theft.
Any thoughts?

Oh, in my manual it stresses not to use any after market fuel additives, it may affect your warranty! Wow!

thank you,

wyo700 · 10-23-2012, 11:14 PM

In my owners manual that came with my camper for my Onan onboard genset it says in about 5 different spots through out the manual DO NOT USE GASOLINE THAT CONTAINS ETHANOL. I had known this and was for sure not gonna do it. I learned about the damaging affect in the ice fishing world after multiple people had been having problems with their ice augers. I don't use gas that has ethanol in anything I own except my truck. I go through it so fast that it will not effect it. It's when the fuel will sit for period of time when the ethanol in gas will start causing problems.

TURBS · 10-24-2012, 06:18 AM

Use startron then you can use ethanol.
Used startron in my 2009 800 r skidoo for 5000 miles that required non ethanol fuel.
Snowmobiles are one of the worse for running ethanol in because of such extreme temperatures.

Turbs

WR450rider · 11-14-2012, 12:17 AM

All good posts. Like Wyo700 said, I only use ethanol fuel in my truck because I burn through a tank every week.

For all my small engines... Lawn Mower, Blower, Dirt Bikes, and the tank in my toy hauler that feeds my gen set and toys, I will not ever use Ethanol Fuel. Luckily, there is still one station in town that still has Non-Ethanol-Supreme. I use too have so many issues with the fuel systems in my high-performance small engines until I finally figured out it was caused by the damn Ethanol.

I have used Stabil for the last 3 winters in all my tanks, and it seems to keep the fuel in good order and I haven't had any issues in the spring so I'll likely stick to the same program (until the government forces stations to get rid of ALL Non-Ethanol Fuel....).

MillerTime · 11-18-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

I have actually heard about this before, but did not think about the implications to the RV world.

The discussion came up among "boat people" who winterize their boats. They put them away with full gas tanks for some reason and a discussion about additive separation was what I "over heard." That must have been what they were talking about.

They say to store the tanks full to prevent condensation moisture in the tank. More air in a tank- higher chance of condensation when the air cools. I have always been told to store tanks full on equipment, drag tanks, and boats durring cooler weather to keep water out of fuel.
I only put 100% in everything except our cars. The alcohol is hard on rubber.

Grizzlygibbs · 01-25-2013, 12:58 AM

I know this is an old thread but....
Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

ENJOY! I love ethanol free gas in all of my toys!

There was a directive by the Commissioner of Public Lands that we are not to run ethanol gasoline in our chainsaws and pumps on our engine if we do not have to (I work as a wildland fire fighter).

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