New Boondocking Electrical Issue

[Comanchecreek]

Shakedown of my new battery/inverter setup. We spent 5 days without hookups in Utah which was a good test for my 3 100 ah Battleborns, and my Power Tech On 2000 watt inverter with remote on/off switch. My only issue with the whole operation was, every time I turned on the inverter, the GFCI in the bathroom would trip. It could be reset, and would function normally after that. Everything else would work fine. The microwave ran properly, all other circuits were fine. I have the inverter properly grounded to the frame of the fifth wheel, and all circuits are protected with ANR fuses, which seem to handle all of the required loads. Is it simply a bad GFCI, or could I have an issue elsewhere? As I said, once on, everything works properly. The rest of my system includes a Renogy 500 amp shunt battery monitor, and a Renogy 20 amp DC to DC charger, and a 200 watt Renogy solar suitcase.

[SeaDog]

An easy test and inexpensive test would be to swap out the GFCI to test the system. May be the GFCI or something making it think there is a problem when the inverter comes on line and starts drawing power.

[eric1514]

Have you tested that outlet or any others connected to the inverter with one of those 3 light testers? I had to make a dummy plug to bond the neutral on my inverter and keep the tester from showing an open ground.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by eric1514

Have you tested that outlet or any others connected to the inverter with one of those 3 light testers? I had to make a dummy plug to bond the neutral on my inverter and keep the tester from showing an open ground.

I haven't tested the outlet. All other times the outlet seems to function properly. It will work on the inverter after being reset. Just trips on initial turn on of inverter. I should also note that I plug into the inverter using a 50 amp to 20 amp adapter and cord. I shut off electricity to the fridge, and the converter. All other electrical items are off at the time of turning on the inverter. It does not trip when normally connected to power at a pedestal.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

I haven't tested the outlet. All other times the outlet seems to function properly. It will work on the inverter after being reset. Just trips on initial turn on of inverter. I should also note that I plug into the inverter using a 50 amp to 20 amp adapter and cord. I shut off electricity to the fridge, and the converter. All other electrical items are off at the time of turning on the inverter. It does not trip when normally connected to power at a pedestal.

Do you have a Neutral to Ground connection in your Inverter? Is your Inverter UL 458 listed? You need a Neutral to Ground connection for your GFCI to work.

UL458 is the safety standard for Power Converters/Inverters and Power Converter/ Inverter Systems for Land Vehicles and Marine Crafts.

See:
Difference between UL458 & UL 1741 For Power Inverters

[formerFR]

there's been chatter on this and other forums about those owners, even on brand new models of rvs, where the GFCI circuits just don't play well along with their inverter, no matter which 'brand' or size of inverter.
I suspect that it's more to do with how the factory chooses to 'wire' the GFCI circuit, as it can be VERY sensitive, as it should be - that's it's job. But, when it's TOO sensitive, it becomes an annoyance.
I simply replacement with another brand might solve the issue, but it might also be simply to tighten a connection, whether at the master Outlet, or even all the way back to the breaker, or somewhere in between. Replacing the inverter might be an option, too, as some have found out the 'expensive' way, but I suppose that's not the first object of any owner.

[Comanchecreek]

Yes I have an 8 gauge copper ground from the inverter to the trailer frame. I don't know the UL listing for the inverter. The ground is provided on the inverter case.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

Yes I have an 8 gauge copper ground from the inverter to the trailer frame. I don't know the UL listing for the inverter. The ground is provided on the inverter case.

Build or buy a neutral to ground bonding plug to test if that is your problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-bTLdMjuqU

[Comanchecreek]

Thanks for the video RK. That just might be the issue. My method for connecting the inverter to the trailer electrical system is identical to connecting an inverter generator. Even though the inverter is grounded to the trailer it is not necessarily connected at the neutral.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

Thanks for the video RK. That just might be the issue. My method for connecting the inverter to the trailer electrical system is identical to connecting an inverter generator. Even though the inverter is grounded to the trailer it is not necessarily connected at the neutral.

My Inverter/Charger has a relay that connects ground to neutral when the RV is powered by the Inverter. The Inverter also has a jumper to disable the relay when installed in a house.

[Comanchecreek]

Can I plug a neutral to ground bonding plug into any outlet in the trailer and have it function correctly? It seems to me that it is a simple matter of connecting the neutral and the ground on the trailer breaker box. Correct? Or do I need to bond the neutral and ground on the inverter?

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

Can I plug a neutral to ground bonding plug into any outlet in the trailer and have it function correctly? It seems to me that it is a simple matter of connecting the neutral and the ground on the trailer breaker box. Correct? Or do I need to bond the neutral and ground on the inverter?

You only need the neutral to ground bonding when powered by your Inverter. If you bond it on your Inverter, your are bonding your TT neutral to ground.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

Can I plug a neutral to ground bonding plug into any outlet in the trailer and have it function correctly? It seems to me that it is a simple matter of connecting the neutral and the ground on the trailer breaker box. Correct? Or do I need to bond the neutral and ground on the inverter?

No. Put it on the inverter and then check the inverter powered outlets with a 3 light tester to make sure.

The shore powered outlets have their neutral bonded at the panel when you are plugged into it.

The yellow plug is the bonding plug

[Comanchecreek]

I checked the neutral and ground on the inverter and they are not connected. I plugged in my bonding plug, with inverter off, and checked, and they are now connected. I'm just a little nervous about powering up the inverter after plugging in the bonding plug. I need some reasurance that no damage will be done.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

I checked the neutral and ground on the inverter and they are not connected. I plugged in my bonding plug, with inverter off, and checked, and they are now connected. I'm just a little nervous about powering up the inverter after plugging in the bonding plug. I need some reasurance that no damage will be done.

My Inverter/Charger has a relay that connects ground to neutral when the RV is powered by the Inverter. You can manually use your bonding plug like my inverter bonding relay. You will be fine if you remove the plug when not using the inverter.

As required by NEC and UL specification 458, inverter / charger installations in the U.S. that are used in RV or Marine applications should be provided with a“Neutral to Ground Bond Switching Relay”to switch bonding of the Neutral Output Connector of the Inverter Charger as follows:

• When operating as an inverter, the current carrying conductor of the Inverter Section that is connected to the Neutral Out connector of the Inverter Charger should be bonded to the metal chassis of the inverter by the “Neutral to Ground Bond Switching Relay”. As the metal chassis of the inverter is bonded to the RV Ground (chassis of the RV) or to the Boat Ground (DC Negative Grounding Bus Bar and the Main AC Grounding Bus Bar are tied together in a boat and this is called the “Boat Ground”), this current carrying conductor of the Inverter Section will become the Grounded Conductor (GC) or the Neutral of the Inverter Section. This meets NEC requirements.

• When in the Pass Through Mode / Utility Mode, the Neutral of the shore power will be connected to the Neutral Out connector of the Inverter Charger. At the same time, the “Neutral to Ground Bond Switching Relay”will un-bond (disconnect) the Neutral Out connector of the Inverter Charger from the chassis of the Inverter Charger. This will ensure that the Grounded Conductor (GC) / Neutral of the shore power is bonded to the Earth Ground at one single point at the location of the AC Power Distribution System of the Marina / RV Park.

Difference between UL458 & UL 1741 For Power Inverters

[Comanchecreek]

I wanted to follow up on this thread for others that may have had a similar issue with an inverter. before I plugged in a neutral bond, I decided to replace the GFCI first as that seemed to be the most common problem with running an inverter as recommended by most of the electrical guys. I purchased what I thought would be a better than average Outlet, and everything seems to be working properly. I can turn on the inverter now without tripping the ground fault interrupter. With my experience now my recommendation is to start there when that is the issue. Thanks to all of you that responded.

[mikewindjammer]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

I haven't tested the outlet. All other times the outlet seems to function properly. It will work on the inverter after being reset. Just trips on initial turn on of inverter. I should also note that I plug into the inverter using a 50 amp to 20 amp adapter and cord. I shut off electricity to the fridge, and the converter. All other electrical items are off at the time of turning on the inverter. It does not trip when normally connected to power at a pedestal.

I had to get used to the concept of a "Floating Neutral". There was a good bit of information on line at Renogy.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by mikewindjammer

I had to get used to the concept of a "Floating Neutral". There was a good bit of information on line at Renogy.

I'll check the Renogy site and see what they say about it. Thanks.