First trip, what a nightmare!

[Hitch Pin]

First trip, what a nightmare! We just got back from a nine day stay at Carter Caves State Park in Kentucky.

It was the first trip out with our new Coachmen Freedom Express LTZ 191RB, when we got within five miles from the campground, the TT started to sway a little, so I pulled over and three of the four hubs we’re loose. I drove real slow the rest of the way, this was on a Sunday, so the place where I got it was closed. Then when we got to campground and got all setup, I mean all setup, I went to plug the cord in, and the 30amp outlet was bad, the only other outlet was 110v 20amp.

I went to the office and no one there could fix it, so we took everything down and loaded up and moved to the horse camp that was out in never never land, because they didn’t have anymore spots in the campground. So after we got all setup again, I went to hook the water up and there was no water pressure, so after I took the spigot all apart and cleaned it we had good pressure. Then on Tuesday night we had a storm that took their water pump out, then we had no water at all, so I went to the office again, they was able to get it fixed after a little bit of work.

On Wednesday I made a trip back home to get the tools needed to fix the hubs, this was about three hrs. round trip, when I got back I jacked the tt up and fixed the hubs.

Then the kitchen drain was loose and filled the cabinet with water, so I had to fix that. Then the next night the 2x2 framing under the bed broke, then I had to work on that so we could sleep on it the next night.

Also the AC didn’t work but about half the time, and when it was running it vibrated everything in and on the tt, the awning is a nightmare to close, they got the upper bracket mounted a ½” off. Right now the TT is setting at the dealer.

I think this TT is about the cheapest built thing I have ever seen.

[F and E Damp]

Sorry to hear of your problems. I wonder whether there are ANY engineers in the RV industry any more. It's beginning to sound like the shop floor guys make it up as they go along and really don't know how.

Even on my '02 Class A, there are things that seem to have been cobbled together by the guys in the shop. There's no rhyme or reason to the way things are wired - it's an electrical jigsaw puzzle. The way the cabinetry was assembled and hung also seems to have been an ad hoc, make it up as you go procedure.


My biggest complaint, though, is the lack of care when adhesives are used for critical components (particularly seals). I've had several multi-hundred dollar repair jobs because glued-on seals have come loose. Many of them had pre-applied adhesive strips that are still very firmly attached. It's the FR-made surfaces where they stick that have caused the failures.

I can fix those I can get to, but several of my failures have been in areas where specialised access equipment was needed. Structural or functional adhesives require VERY close adherence to the cleanliness requirements. In the airplane business (I worked at Boeing) we used adhesives to hold critical structure together. If we'd been as sloppy as FR's folks, there'd be airplanes falling out of the sky every day.

I'm sure glad the folks we bought from had owned it for seven years before us and had sorted out most of the problems. As they weren't particularly handy, it must have cost them a bundle. It's mainly been slide-out seals that have given me the grief.

[bakken]

May I ask what was wrong with the wheel hubs?
Did they forget to put the cotter pins in the adjusting nuts?

[Hitch Pin]

Originally Posted by F and E Damp

Sorry to hear of your problems. I wonder whether there are ANY engineers in the RV industry any more. It's beginning to sound like the shop floor guys make it up as they go along and really don't know how.

Even on my '02 Class A, there are things that seem to have been cobbled together by the guys in the shop. There's no rhyme or reason to the way things are wired - it's an electrical jigsaw puzzle. The way the cabinetry was assembled and hung also seems to have been an ad hoc, make it up as you go procedure.


My biggest complaint, though, is the lack of care when adhesives are used for critical components (particularly seals). I've had several multi-hundred dollar repair jobs because glued-on seals have come loose. Many of them had pre-applied adhesive strips that are still very firmly attached. It's the FR-made surfaces where they stick that have caused the failures.

I can fix those I can get to, but several of my failures have been in areas where specialised access equipment was needed. Structural or functional adhesives require VERY close adherence to the cleanliness requirements. In the airplane business (I worked at Boeing) we used adhesives to hold critical structure together. If we'd been as sloppy as FR's folks, there'd be airplanes falling out of the sky every day.

I'm sure glad the folks we bought from had owned it for seven years before us and had sorted out most of the problems. As they weren't particularly handy, it must have cost them a bundle. It's mainly been slide-out seals that have given me the grief.

I got a feeling that this TT will be long gone, (done for) before it is paid for. No wonder they only have a one year warranty. It’s said that not many people take pride in the work they do anymore, just anything to get it out the door.

[Cajun Po-Boy]

Wow!

[steeleshark2]

Man, that sucks. I hope everything gets worked out so it will be a dependable unit.

[Hitch Pin]

Originally Posted by bakken

May I ask what was wrong with the wheel hubs?
Did they forget to put the cotter pins in the adjusting nuts?

The cotter pins were in the adjusting nuts, but the axle nut was loose, I mean real loose. I think that they didn't have the bearings seated when they assembled the axle. The axle are made by Lippert Components.

[sledhead77]

Wow, sounds like about our experience with our Freedom Express. For the money we spent on this unit it sure is a total POS! The worst of it, my dealer refuses to help out! UGH!!

[Vern]

Not to go all Pollyana on you here and spoil the vibe, but the issues you raise (assuming the hubs are not damaged and/or are repaired or replaced to what they should be new) sound like things which you can work through. The flawed workmanship and stupid assembly or installation errors which you have identified speak to poor quality control. I agree they are ridiculous in new unit and should not happen, but sometimes they do. The good news is that the resulting issues, which you have caught so early, should be reparable. I know inconveniences associated with the campground's electrical and water issues are very frustrating, too, and I sympathize.

Still, I'm betting there are much brighter days ahead. Here's hoping you and your dealer can get the bugs out soon and starting enjoying the unit very soon!

[Len & Cheri]

Originally Posted by Hitch Pin

Then the kitchen drain was loose and filled the cabinet with water, so I had to fix that. Then the next night the 2x2 framing under the bed broke, then I had to work on that so we could sleep on it the next night.

Also the AC didn’t work but about half the time, and when it was running it vibrated everything in and on the tt, the awning is a nightmare to close, they got the upper bracket mounted a ½” off. Right now the TT is setting at the dealer.

I think this TT is about the cheapest built thing I have ever seen.

Just curious, did you do a pre-delivery inspection? Who was the dealer, because they surely didn't do their job? The drain and A/C should have been detected before you took it off the lot.

[Vern]

I agree 100% with that, Len. It took multiple mistakes for those to become the owner's discovery.

[ryand]

As a Coachmen Owner these are things that suck to learn about. It seems that a lot of the issues are with the Freedom Express series. Are these coming out of the same factory as the Catilina's I wonder? Everyone I have talked to that has the Catalina series has had only minor issues including myself. Reguardles of the type of trailer a lot of these things that have been described should have been caught by at the factory QC and then a second check at the dealer. Its a shame to hear you are dealing with these issues. I wonder if there is any Rep from Coachmen that monitors this board?

[wyo700]

Considering its only your first trip that really doesn't sound that bad. On my first trip out filler neck wasn't tight to fill the fresh water tank and I had water coming out under the fridge. I took access panel off and tightened it up. No big deal. I guess I am different those little things dont bother me. We had a brand new house built last year and as badly as we wanted things to be absolutely perfect they weren't always that way. I have had a brand new truck, house, and now camper that have had problems. And I am sure it will always be that way. Just cause something is brand new doesn't mean it's perfect.

[crasher]

Originally Posted by Hitch Pin

First trip, what a nightmare! We just got back from a nine day stay at Carter Caves State Park in Kentucky.

It was the first trip out with our new Coachmen Freedom Express LTZ 191RB, when we got within five miles from the campground, the TT started to sway a little, so I pulled over and three of the four hubs we’re loose. I drove real slow the rest of the way, this was on a Sunday, so the place where I got it was closed. Then when we got to campground and got all setup, I mean all setup, I went to plug the cord in, and the 30amp outlet was bad, the only other outlet was 110v 20amp.

I went to the office and no one there could fix it, so we took everything down and loaded up and moved to the horse camp that was out in never never land, because they didn’t have anymore spots in the campground. So after we got all setup again, I went to hook the water up and there was no water pressure, so after I took the spigot all apart and cleaned it we had good pressure. Then on Tuesday night we had a storm that took their water pump out, then we had no water at all, so I went to the office again, they was able to get it fixed after a little bit of work.

On Wednesday I made a trip back home to get the tools needed to fix the hubs, this was about three hrs. round trip, when I got back I jacked the tt up and fixed the hubs.

Then the kitchen drain was loose and filled the cabinet with water, so I had to fix that. Then the next night the 2x2 framing under the bed broke, then I had to work on that so we could sleep on it the next night.

Also the AC didn’t work but about half the time, and when it was running it vibrated everything in and on the tt, the awning is a nightmare to close, they got the upper bracket mounted a ½” off. Right now the TT is setting at the dealer.

I think this TT is about the cheapest built thing I have ever seen.

Unfortunately, Coachmen is not one of the better brands. However, they aren't much worse than the sorry state of most.

Part of that is just the economics of the industry. Consider this - say your camper MSRP's for $25k. Dealer sells for $16k. His margin is probably $3k. So the manufacturer is selling for $13 and his margin is probably $6k to stay in business. So you have a $25k product that costs $7k to make. Probably less. Then we complain they are made of thin plastics and particle board. The RV industry is NOT like the auto industry. The discounting expected is huge, the labor unskilled and low wage, parts are cheap and quality control is nil. Basically, you need to be lucky to have a good experience.

I gotta stop before I depress myself!

[Hitch Pin]

I left out two other things. The shower curtain let water pour through and soaked the floor, so we had to go buy a shower curtain liner. The other thing was the fresh water tank, it was not fastened and would slide from side to side about a foot or so under the tt, when it did it broke the fitting that the fill hose goes on.

[dezeldad]

Hi Hitch Pin,
You are not alone. Last week we took our new Coachman on a long trip from Ohio to Huntington Beach, SC and it was almost a nightmare. When we went to check-in the ranger said we could not have our site because the electric was bad and had to be replaced. He had already started processing the refund and told me they had no other sites available for the length of the stay. I have to admit I got a little wound up and told them they needed to help me find something. I was more upset, not angry, that I was 12 hours away from home with no place to camp/vacation. After spending some time with the staff, they strung together some available sites but I would have to move 4 times during the course of the week. 48 hours later, the day of the first move, it looked like the site was repaired. I asked and was able to move into the original site.
During our stay the Dometic air conditioner started cycling excessively. Twice it errored-out (E1 code) and wouldn’t restart until I reset the breaker. Also, during our move a landing gear bolt sheared off and one leg of the gear would not lower. I pulled up one of the window blinds and it came off of the wall. Frustrating! I dealt with the issues but will need to make a trip to the dealer for long term fixes.
When we returned home to Ohio, we discovered that our trailer had been invaded by thousands of ants. We spent the first day at home killing ants and cleaning every corner of the camper.
On the upside, despite the stressful moments, we still had a great time on the beach with the kids and the dogs. We ate some great seafood and enjoyed relaxing in our new camper. The staff at the state park was kind and courteous and I believe they did what they could to help us. Oh, and now every corner of my camper is super clean.
Hopefully the rest of the camping season will go better for both of us!

[Hitch Pin]

I just got off the phone with Coachmen, the first thing I ask them if they had a quality control person in the plant were thy build the Freedom Express LTZ. They said yes, I told them if that is true they need to run them off! I told them that this travel trailer has the worst workmanship of anything I have ever seen, and that I would be ashamed to put my name on it.

After telling them all that was wrong, they said that they would call the dealer and see what they could do to make it right. When I told them about the fresh water tank sliding from side to side more than a foot, he said that was normal, when I ask why you would want it to slide like that, he had no answer, all he could say it was normal.

[Allamand]

I only have taken our 2012 Catalina 291bhks camping once so f and thankfully have had minor issue. The one ajar on was the fame of the queen bed pulling out of the front wall, and braking the 2x2 frame. Not sure who designed such a mess, but I beefed it up with a cross brace in the middle and some out at the foot of the bed. Hopefully they will take care of the issues with your camper.

[bakken]

"When I told them about the fresh water tank sliding from side to side more than a foot, he said that was normal"
------------------------------------------------
I am speechless!

[Hitch Pin]

Originally Posted by Allamand

I only have taken our 2012 Catalina 291bhks camping once so f and thankfully have had minor issue. The one ajar on was the fame of the queen bed pulling out of the front wall, and braking the 2x2 frame. Not sure who designed such a mess, but I beefed it up with a cross brace in the middle and some out at the foot of the bed. Hopefully they will take care of the issues with your camper.

Same thing happened to our queen bed, very very poor design. I would call Coachmen like I did, and tell them that they need a new engineer.