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Old 08-18-2017, 09:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BurgPath View Post
Wife and I are interested in a Coachman 336TSIK. Has a good bit of pin weight when stock, over 1800.
I've been looking at new trucks, specifically F250\2500 level. Like the 2017 King Ranch F250 but it only has 1880 in cargo capacity. I'm kinda dumbfounded. I see so many of these sized trucks pulling 5th wheel campers.

If you own a 336, what are you pulling it with?
Our camper has a pin weight of around 1700. We pull it with a stock 08 Chevy Silverado with the Duramax/Allison combination. MADE TO PULL....Does so effortlessly!
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:26 PM   #22
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Your payload isn't 4000 lbs, your GVWR is likely 10k lbs and the truck is likely 7000 lbs. A 3500 wouldn't weigh much more, but even a SRW 3500 will have a GVWR of 11,400 lbs. Shoot, my 3500 even with a utility bed, tools, hitch and Braun passengers seat lift for my handicapped wife hits the scales at 8000 lbs, so I have 3400 lbs remaining for the loaded pin weight.

You probably are OK, but until you visit a truck scale, you won't understand how much margin is left. While an empty fiver may have a dry pin weight that is 18% of the total dry weight, with so much forward storage area, a much higher percentage of the cargo weight will be on the pin. Maybe 30-40%.
Loaded like normal people I was around 18%. Then we had to have extra stuff and the separate washer and dryer and so much more. Now at 26%!
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:56 PM   #23
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Respectfully, unless you have had your setup at a scale and gotten actual measurements when loaded and ready for camping, statements like "it pulls no problem" are anecdotal and subjective. One person's "no problem" may be quite uncomfortable to another. Even being just under the payload rating may be uncomfortable for some. By scaling your setup, you'll at least know where you are in relation to your truck's ratings and decide based on actual weights. My F150 was 600# overweight pulling my current TT when I actually scaled it, so I decided to upgrade to a F-250.

My advise is to ignore the brochure pin weight. Use 24 or 25% of the published GVWR for the assumed pin weight. The Coachmen Chaparral 336TSIK has a GVWR of 12200# so assume a loaded pin weight in the range of 2900# to 3000#.

I think you'll find that for that trailer you'll be better off with a 1 ton 350/3500 especially if you want a diesel engine (since the heavier diesel engine robs some of the payload capacity).

If you can afford the King Ranch F250, consider going with a Lariat or XLT trim level F350 instead for the same money.
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Old 08-18-2017, 10:19 PM   #24
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It's in my sig., all my numbers are good. I feel comfortable with my setup until some idiot cuts me off on a 6% down grade...
Do I wish I had a bigger truck? You bet I do.
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:12 AM   #25
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My advise is to ignore the brochure pin weight. Use 24 or 25% of the published GVWR for the assumed pin weight. The Coachmen Chaparral 336TSIK has a GVWR of 12200# so assume a loaded pin weight in the range of 2900# to 3000#.

I've found that except for toy haulers, you can fairly accurately estimate pin weight by extrapolating from the dry weights.

For the OP, see this:
http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/...nWeightFromDry
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
I've found that except for toy haulers, you can fairly accurately estimate pin weight by extrapolating from the dry weights.

For the OP, see this:
Estimating Tongue/Pin Weight from Dry Weights - Towing Planner
Interesting calculator, Doug. So you're recommending that you can use the brochure weights to calculate the % of the total weight that the pin will weigh, but also recommend you assume about 2500# of extra weight above the brochure "dry weight" as a realistic loaded total weight? 2500# would be a lot more than we put in our travel trailer (even if you include the weight of batteries and propane) but then we don't have the storage room that a 5er provides - and we don't full time! Is your number a bit high to also account for the weight of the 5th wheel hitch in the truck bed?

Thanks for your post.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:57 PM   #27
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I'm pretty close to that. 800 lbs of water, 1200 lbs of gear and normal camper stuff. And then 200 lbs of food, drinks, snacks and firewood. Then I still have 1800 left over for my UTV (when I get it).
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:41 PM   #28
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Interesting calculator, Doug. So you're recommending that you can use the brochure weights to calculate the % of the total weight that the pin will weigh, but also recommend you assume about 2500# of extra weight above the brochure "dry weight" as a realistic loaded total weight? 2500# would be a lot more than we put in our travel trailer (even if you include the weight of batteries and propane) but then we don't have the storage room that a 5er provides - and we don't full time! Is your number a bit high to also account for the weight of the 5th wheel hitch in the truck bed?



Thanks for your post.

Yes, I think if you take the brochure weights and add a reasonable amount for your family/packing style that you can estimate your loaded pin weight.

I don't force 2,500 on the person. I automatically add it (well 1,500 lbs) as a default/recommendation. But, it's an entry field and the user is free to change it as makes sense for their family.

My suggestion is 1,500 lbs (I think) but that's mostly a guess/myth/oft-quoted-on-forums kind of thing. You have to start somewhere.

I do think most people underestimate what they carry. But, I also know my family never should be the gauge of what is reasonable to take- we are way overpackers!

I don't include extra for the 5th wheel hitch.
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Old 08-20-2017, 03:42 PM   #29
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Then what does the driver's door yellow sticker say your payload capacity is?
Looked at a 2017 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax/Allison last Jan. Full Crew---
yellow sticker (2150)
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:15 PM   #30
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My advise is to ignore the brochure pin weight. Use 24 or 25% of the published GVWR for the assumed pin weight. The Coachmen Chaparral 336TSIK has a GVWR of 12200# so assume a loaded pin weight in the range of 2900# to 3000#.
Correction on my previous post above...

Based on Ependydad and CaptnJohn's posts, my percentage for the assumed pin weight is way too high and should be more like 19-20% max.

Using Ependydad's method, the pin weight of the Coachmen Chaparral 336TSIK should be in the neighborhood of 18%.

I like Ependydad's reasoning for loaded weight as well. I'd probably assume at least 1500# of added weight but conservatively you'd be best to assume more, maybe as much as 2000# above the brochure unloaded vehicle weight (UVW), or more if you're going to full time.

Having said that, the brochure for the Coachmen Chaparral 336TSIK says it has a cargo carrying capacity (CCC) of only 1680# so using the GVWR of 12,200# would be advisable for that model. That means that the assumed pin weight would be around 18% of 12200# = 2200#.
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:00 PM   #31
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See sig below. The door sticker on the truck is 24xx lbs. I feel that I have really good command of our 5th wheel with the F250. I think you will be satisfied with the way any 3/4 ton handles the 336TSIK, but I would make sure it has a cargo carrying capacity of at least 2400 lbs.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:14 AM   #32
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I backed into RVing. Already owned an F150, retired, got bored, thought I'd try camping. I bought an older, lightweight TT and rented out my house for a year. Truck really struggled through the Appalachians all around me. Love the lifestyle, met a special lady, sold the house and we are moving up to a much larger combo.

I workamped for the past two winters, getting to talk to many different people. One couple had sold their northern home, bought a 336TSIK and ordered a GMC 3500 diesel dually with only the options they needed. I loved the coach, and planning ahead, I found a nearby dealer with very good pricing.

Does a 14,000# coach really need a diesel dually? Everyone is different. For me, I've already been through the pleasure of pulling with a TV that doesn't have enough oomph. Never again. I went online to configure and price a 350/3500 with just what I needed, (+/- $55k).

However, I met another couple pulling a Luxe 5er that weighed as much as it cost. He was pulling it with an F450 CCLB diesel dually Platinum. Out of my league, I thought, but he explained that he did an online search and found what he wanted, a year old with about 12k miles on it at a price that didn't leave him clutching his heart like Fred Sanford.

Sure enough, cargurus(dot)com listed what I wanted, a year old, 10,000 miles, at a dealer an hour or so away for more or less what I was willing to pay ordering one brand new with just the basics. I couldn't haggle him down any further but he was willing to throw in a new Reese 24k hitch, installed. Where do I sign?

I summer in a condo up north. This truck is my everyday vehicle. Yes, it can pull a 3-bedroom ranch but it will rattle your filling loose driving on the frost-heaved, pot-holed roads of (insert rust-belt city here).

Everyone's situation is different. Because we plan on on living in the coach full-time for seven months of the year, we have decided against the 336TSIK as, for us, it does not have the Cargo Carrying Capacity we'd like. With this truck, we have the luxury of moving up to the 360IBL with its 7,000# axles, a mid-bunk to turn into a craft/computer room and a CCC of 2550#.

Perhaps that is the key. On all these forums they suggest buying your second rig first. Even before our first choice of coach has been purchased, we are planning on moving up in weight and length. Your circumstances are going to be completely different from mine and everyone else's but I think most would agree that getting 'just enough' truck could be a regrettable decision.

Best of luck to you!
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:41 AM   #33
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I appreciate everyone's replies. Clearly, based on the model trailer we like, a 250 isnt going to cut it.
I'd love to find a year old 350 and go with that versus new. Would save some serious money.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:59 AM   #34
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This is exactly what I did. I traded in a 2012 Ram 2500 for a lightly used 2015 GMC 3500. Here, in SLC Utah, the diesel and truck market is huge but no one really wants 3500s, I got my 3500 for about $20k cheaper than new and I got it for the same price as when I bought my 2500 2.5 years prior. The thing that saved me is I bought my 2500 for $39k and I got $32k trade for it and I had it halfway paid off. I'm not sure how strong the truck market is where you live but normally 3500s aren't any more expensive than 2500s.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:38 AM   #35
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Check out this site. I sat in on a conference this man was giving. Very informative, plus remember this "if" you are ever in an accident, the first thing they are going to look at is to see if you are overloaded, if you are you are in the wrong.

http://rvsafety.com/
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:42 AM   #36
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This is exactly what I did. I traded in a 2012 Ram 2500 for a lightly used 2015 GMC 3500. Here, in SLC Utah, the diesel and truck market is huge but no one really wants 3500s, I got my 3500 for about $20k cheaper than new and I got it for the same price as when I bought my 2500 2.5 years prior. The thing that saved me is I bought my 2500 for $39k and I got $32k trade for it and I had it halfway paid off. I'm not sure how strong the truck market is where you live but normally 3500s aren't any more expensive than 2500s.


Correct, here in the northeast a 2500 and 3500 are about the same money. The big difference is most 2500s are loaded with comfort options and the 3500s are not and I believe that's what keeps the price comparable.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:59 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Topper Harley View Post
Check out this site. I sat in on a conference this man was giving. Very informative, plus remember this "if" you are ever in an accident, the first thing they are going to look at is to see if you are overloaded, if you are you are in the wrong.

RVSEF - RV Weighing & Safety Education
A good idea to INSURE you are not overloaded is to visit a CAT scale, not every trip as some commercial truckers do but at least once when you aer fully loaded.

This way you will know FOR SURE what your weights are and will even have a record of it. total cost, $13...............WELL worth it!
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:01 AM   #38
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Correct, here in the northeast a 2500 and 3500 are about the same money. The big difference is most 2500s are loaded with comfort options and the 3500s are not and I believe that's what keeps the price comparable.
One other thing to keep in mind with a 3500 is that they do not come with a TPMS system because it is not mandated.

So, if you use a TPMS system for your camper, you can simply add 4 or 6 sensors and have it for your vehicle as well.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:09 AM   #39
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Have the F350 in my signature. My trailer is fairly heavy. I'm guessing, because I haven't been to the scales, don't really see the rush, that my pin weight is around 3000 lbs. and the trailer comes in at around 16000. My trucks cargo weight is 5600.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:48 AM   #40
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My 3/4 ton diesel has a cargo capacity of 2500lbs. Between 3 full size adults and all the stuff in the bed, the truck is carrying about 1000lbs before the trailer is attached. Add in 1100lbs of trailer tongue weight and my total load is about 2100lbs. Unless its a REALLY small one, I would never pull a 5er with my truck. I simply do not have the load carrying capacity.
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