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Old 04-11-2020, 10:19 PM   #1
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6 volt batteries

The dealer we bought from talked us into 6 volt batteries saying they would last longer. We had solar panel installed as well so that we wouldn’t have to use a generator as much or only when using the large load pullers like ac or microwave. The problem I’m having is when we’re not plugged into an external power source my outlets aren’t working (we can’t run the tv for the kids) is this because of the 6 volt Batteries? If I got 12 volts would it run my outlets with out being plugged in or am I missing some switch in the trailer?? I have a 2020 puma 27qbc toyhauler. Thanks
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Old 04-11-2020, 10:30 PM   #2
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Welcome. My outlets are all 120. I have 2 six volt batteries, producing 12 volts (in series). So I have to run the generator or shore power to get 120 for the TV.
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Old 04-11-2020, 10:42 PM   #3
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You must have an INverter installed and wired to your 120 volt outlets for the TV's to work.

Inverter changes 12 to 120. Converter changes 120 to 12.

Two 6 volt batteries in series = 12 volts. Your lighting is 12 volts.
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Old 04-11-2020, 10:43 PM   #4
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Welcome. My outlets are all 120. I have 2 six volt batteries, producing 12 volts (in series). So I have to run the generator or shore power to get 120 for the TV.
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Yes, you would need a 12V to 120V power inverter to change your 12V to 120V and feed that to the AC wall outlets, and your pair of 6V batteries would not last very long trying to do this. Using the batteries for the 12V LED lights, fridge and furnace fan.... the pair of 6V batteries and solar panel will likely do pretty well.

To run AC from batteries for any serious amount of time typically involves a person getting more serious with the system and spending some noticeable cash to get the system to perform as desired.
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Old 04-11-2020, 11:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helijensen View Post
The dealer we bought from talked us into 6 volt batteries saying they would last longer. We had solar panel installed as well so that we wouldn’t have to use a generator as much or only when using the large load pullers like ac or microwave. The problem I’m having is when we’re not plugged into an external power source my outlets aren’t working (we can’t run the tv for the kids) is this because of the 6 volt Batteries? If I got 12 volts would it run my outlets with out being plugged in or am I missing some switch in the trailer?? I have a 2020 puma 27qbc toyhauler. Thanks
Suggest you go to this website, to learn about the 2 different RV electrical systems.
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

Two 6v golf cart batteries are better than two 12v dual-purpose marine batteries.
Unless your trailer has a house INverter, the outlets will only work when plugged into shore power or a generator.
Unfortunately your dealer failed to explain this to you, during the PDI/walkthrough.
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Old 04-12-2020, 12:24 AM   #6
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Once you have a very good inverter to convert the power from your pair of 6v batteries, this is what you may expect.
1. If your 6v are very good batteries like Trojan T-105 golf cart style and wired in series you will have about 12.7 volts and 225 amps to "feed" the inverter.
2. About half of those amps will be useable until your resting voltage drops to 12.1 volts. This is what is referred to as 50% state of charge. So you can safely use about 110 amps of that 12 volt power.
3. Good inverters are about 90% efficient. Some better, many worse. That means your inverter will supply about 1000-1200 watts of power at 120v until your battery are down to 50%. Lower than that is not great for long term health of your batteries.
4. Add everything up that uses 120v (microwave, coffeepot, residential fan, hair dryer, etc) and you will be able to estimate how much power will be consumed. Trust me, the batteries won't last long until you become very experienced with conserving them.
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Old 04-12-2020, 07:15 AM   #7
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i'm so sorry that you encountered this situation. but all is not lost. from our original post it sounds as if you expect to run a generator for the a/c or microwave. so it appears as if you already have a generator or already planned on getting one. so if you do you will also be able to use it for the tv.

do you know if you even have an inverter? if you have a residential refrigerator you will have one. if a standard rv refrigerator probably not.

the salesman did a number on you. he was not wrong in what he said and recommended but he certainly didn't take the effort to understand your expectations. you are nicely set up to go out and do some camping without power hook-ups as long as you minimize your power needs. with the generator for a/c and the microwave you will be fine. but i understand you frustration.
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Old 04-12-2020, 07:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Helijensen View Post
The dealer we bought from talked us into 6 volt batteries...
your 'dealer' actually did you a favor, especially since you also say that you've purchased 'solar' to help during times 'off-grid' with no shore power. 6v deep-discharge batteries are more the 'standard', especially in even larger motorhomes with inverters and needs for power... you'll do well to have these versus the typical 12v batteries that come stock in many RVs.

So, he's helped you to remain 'off-grid' for longer, and your solar will provide some 'charging' of those new 6v batteries, and you'll need 'less' time on the generator...all is good.

Now, for the 'main' question of your outlets, and when they are 'powered'.
Outlets are 120v, and therefore do NOT run off the batteries, they need either SHORE POWER, or GENERATOR power, just like your air conditioners.
Yes, if you happen to already have an INVERTER, it too can power an outlet, but ONLY if it's wired to power that/those outlets. Some RVs have them wired, some don't. If you have a residential 120v refrigerator, then you certainly do HAVE an inverter, which may only have the fridge on the inverter, or it may have also an additional outlet, as well. The best way to know is to check each and every outlet with either a voltmeter, an outlet 'checker' device, or simply use a small fan or device and plug it in to see if it works.

Can you still watch 'tv' without an inverter installed from the factory? YES.
Power Inverters are simple and easy-to-find at any auto store or walmart in the tire/battery section. The smallest $10 450w inverter can easily power your TV, satellite receiver, or DVD player, all at the same time. Either plug the inverter into one of your 12v round outlets, specifically one powered by the HOUSE Batteries, or purchase one that also has 'alligator clips' to attach directly to your HOUSE Batteries. Use a simple extension cord from the inverter's outlet to your TV.

There are many ways to power things in your RV, with a little thought and design. Not all RVs are going to have 'everything' you might expect, in 'every' situation, but there are ways for you to make it happen.
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Old 04-12-2020, 08:16 AM   #9
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Thanks everyone for your reply’s/info. The dealer didn’t go through much on our initial purchase walk around just the simple here’s the fridge and light switches. Looks like I will be looking into an inverter maybe just for the tv.
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Old 04-12-2020, 04:56 PM   #10
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Thanks everyone for your reply’s/info. The dealer didn’t go through much on our initial purchase walk around just the simple here’s the fridge and light switches. Looks like I will be looking into an inverter maybe just for the tv.
I would caution you to not buy the cheap inverters that have been mentioned. The sort of inexpensive inverter you might see at an auto parts store, or wally world. The have a square, or modified square step sine wave and do not play well with sensitive electronics. They may be fine for powering up a small appliance such as a drill motor, fan, or even a small inductive device.

I would advise you to purchase a pure sine wave inverter, which will be a larger initial purchase price, but will power sensitive electronics such as laptops and smart TV's exactly the way shore power does.

Also, be aware that a 450 watt inverter that may be able to plug into a 12 volt outlet may have the potential to try and draw over 30 amps through a circuit. Which would very likely pop a fuse, assuming the circuit is protected by a fuse. I have seen these type of outlets that have been put in place without fuse protection, by someone not familiar with the requirements. You never know what you may find in an rv!
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Old 04-12-2020, 05:03 PM   #11
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that's baloney.... power inverters are just fine for simple power to TVs and the like, even powering you phone chargers, laptops, and desktop computer, as we've done for years... stop downgrading inverters simply because they are 'modified'... without experience, you are just spreading ridiculous non-sense.
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Old 04-13-2020, 12:45 PM   #12
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From "InvertersRUs", common knowledge for most everyone. For those that don't understand the differences, I hope this helps.

All power inverters convert DC power (which is power stored in batteries) to AC power, which is the power supplied by the electric company and fed to your home. Electronic devices need AC power to operate, but power inverters generally output power in two forms, modified sine wave vs. pure sine wave.
Simply put, pure sine wave power flows in even, arching waves, whereas modified sine wave power flows to your devices in chunky, square waves. The square waves are giving power to your device “all or nothing,” so to speak. Your device will run properly, or not. The power is coming through in a less seamless fashion. Gaining power that is flowing in modified sine waves does not come through as clean and efficient—it doesn’t flow to the device as “pure.” The devices will get the power they need to operate, but when it comes to devices like fans, TV’s, radios and lights, they will tend to buzz, as they are running a bit “hotter,” due to the way power flows to them.
The cons of running your devices on modified sine wave power is that they will run less efficiently, which will commonly result in the device or appliance not running properly, interference or a “buzz”. For devices that aren’t sensitive, like a vacuum or water pump, it might not matter to you at all. They will use a little more wattage and make a little more noise. But, for devices that need an even flow of energy to function properly, like variable-speed power tools, you are going to get all or nothing. No matter how tightly or softly you pull on the trigger to your power drill, it is going to be full-speed or off. This doesn’t mean that a blender with different settings can’t be used at a high or low setting; it certainly can. But because they are getting energy that is less efficient, the devices you run on Modified Sine Wave power can wear out sooner than if they were constantly operating via pure sine wave power, like that supplied in homes.
Some devices and appliances that require a pure sine inverter are:
Microwaves
Laser printers
Variable speed tools
Cordless tool battery chargers
Some TV’s
Key Machines
CPAP machines with humidifiers
Medical equipment
Sensitive electronics
The main “pro” in running your devices on modified sine wave power is that the modified sine wave power inverter costs you less initially.
When considering pure sine wave DC to AC inverters vs. modified sine wave DC to AC inverters, the conversation can lead you into a geeky look into a side of electricity and power you never cared to see. However, consider the types of devices you’re running and weigh your options accordingly.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:16 PM   #13
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I think your specific and detailed information and knowledge about modified sine wave inverters is technically correct, but my discussion is more along the lines that most who 'RV' aren't using these inverters 24/7 365, but only the few times they are RVing, camping, etc. Like anything, solar included, paying extra for some things while only using your RV infrequently is sometimes overkill, at least for the 'benefit' it may seem to provide according to 'technical' details.

Should everyone always use a pure sine wave inverter? sure. Is that realistic, though... probably not. Many can show the pros of certain things, but life is not always so black and white. If a modified sine wave inverter works, it works. Most will never know the difference, or be willing to 'pay for it', even if. I've used a Magnum ME2012 in our coach for over 5 years, and have never had any issue with any 'technology' device, electronic device, residential fridge, microwave, or anything. So, I don't see, from experience, the need to 'say' that somehow a modified sine wave inverter can somehow 'damage' or cause 'damage' to things in your RV. If this was 'such' a big deal, or deal 'breaker', I would also suspect that most RV manufacturers would not install them in their RVs, as they typically do.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:27 PM   #14
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just to throw more fuel to the fire the term 'modified sine wave' is really not all that descriptive. yes they typically output a stepped waveform. but the issue is how many discreet steps they output in one cycle. the more steps they output the closer they will approach a pure sine wave. i have seen graphs of stepped wave forms and they do vary a lot. only way to tell is put it on a scope and see it.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:33 PM   #15
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You can buy a 12vdc powered TV. If the TV in your RV uses a brick type power cord like used with laptops it will be operating at 12vdc and not 120vac. In that case you can buy a cord that plugs into a cigarette lighter type outlet eliminating the brick type cord.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:42 PM   #16
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yes, I have a JENSEN 12v TV in the bedroom, which I suppose is for the ability to 'off-grid' on the batteries and still be able to see 'ota'(Antenna) TV, if available.

for the MSW concern, I also suppose that if the drawbacks or damage that's possible via one of these types of inverters was major, I would doubt that most manufacturers would be installing them in RVs, but I suspect it's actually due to it being a very rare occurrence of any real 'issue', if any. Enjoy>>>
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Old 04-13-2020, 02:45 PM   #17
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There is no reason to buy a modified sine wave inverter these days. Pure sine wave inverters are not much more than a modified one. If you are using a modified sine wave inverter with something that doesn't have a transformer or motor, you are usually ok. Of course, almost everything we plug in will likely have a transformer or a motor of some kind. Becuase a modified sine wave inverter has a lot of power outside a frequency band that a pure sinewave has, all that out of band energy gets converted to heat. Devices will not get damaged right away but they will get degraded. The insulation in the windings after getting excessively hot over a period of time WILL fail.
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