RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2020, 01:50 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
Question 14 gallons unuseable...

Just got back from our July 4th outing, and had the opportunity to run the fresh water tank dry again.


But, this time I was able to measure how much water we put back in to the tank... which turned out to be 34 gallons to overflowing out the gravity fill port. We have a 48 gallon fresh water tank. That means we have 14 gallons of unuseable water in our FW tank.



I've always felt like we were never able to get all the water out of our FW tank, and now I've confirmed it.


I've got an idea how to help fix this situation, but wondering if anyone has any ideas as well.



There are 3 support bars that the FW tank sits on in the camper frame. The tank sags down between these bars, and sags down at the ends. The supply line from the FW tank to the pump comes out of the FW tank roughly in the center of the tank...


I'll try to get some pics later that show what's going on.
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 02:17 PM   #2
...far N Georgia!
 
formerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hiawassee, GA!
Posts: 3,194
you also have 6 to 10 gallons in your water heater...
formerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 04:08 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
you also have 6 to 10 gallons in your water heater...

Those are already accounted for, since they have been filled since de-winterization.
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 04:16 PM   #4
Site Team
 
wmtire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 25,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriaBeck View Post
We have a 48 gallon fresh water tank. That means we have 14 gallons of unuseable water in our FW tank.

Can I ask where you got the numbers from? The reason for this is that the current brochure for your RV states a 38 gallon fresh water tank.....but I may be looking at a wrong model.


https://primetimerv.com/files/brochu...erbrochure.pdf


EDIT: I used the wayback machine to check out the 2018 specific models and you are correct that it's supposed to have a 48 gallon freshwater tank, according to their brochure:


https://web.archive.org/web/20190518...erbrochure.pdf
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS

I often say to myself, "I can't believe that cloning machine worked."
wmtire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 04:43 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
I put in support bars to get rid of the sag on mine. Another thing people do is use the drain port as the port that delivers water to the pump and either have a tee there so it also serves as the drain or just move the drain to the side port.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 06:21 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
Here's some pics of my FW tank...


There's not much water in it right now, so there's not much sag... but it looks a lot worse in real life than in the pictures.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0893.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	257.3 KB
ID:	233206   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0896.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	307.1 KB
ID:	233207   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0895.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	280.7 KB
ID:	233208  
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 06:37 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
So both of yours are on the bottom which is good. When the pump starts running out of water, can you push up on the tank and feel how much water is pushing downwards?
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 07:05 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
Basically, when the tank is down to the level where the pump is sucking air, the water is in the "sag bubbles" at either end. That's why I shoved that 2x4 up in there, just to see how much flex the tank had, to try to "flatten out" the sag at the ends, and maybe cause the water to pool to the sides. I know the 2x4 is a little too much, but now I know what I'm dealing with.


As the tank sits from the factory, the drain and the supply ports are the highest spots in the floor of the tank because of the sag at the ends.


I'm thinking of getting some 1/8"x4 steel strap, and cutting it to the width of the inside of the frame rails, and then welding some stops at the two outer supports, so that the strap is "trapped" and cannot bow down under the weight of the tank. I'll put one of these straps at the front 1/3 of the tank, and another at the rear third of the tank. I'll also weld some spacers at each end of the strap on the bottom side of the strap where it would lay on the frame rails, which would make the ends higher than the middle, and should cause the tank to sag to the center, rather than sag at the ends, and cause the water to pool in the center of the tank.


At least, that's my idea right now. If anyone has a better solution, I'm all ears!
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 07:17 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
I'm just thinking, I've also got some 1 1/2" square tubing out in my shop... I could just use that between the frame rails and the support bar on either side, and let the tank sag to the center as well.


Looks like I've got a few options...
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 07:33 PM   #10
Scoundrel
 
HangDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 1,906
Here's another fresh water tank support thread that motivated me to make some upgrades. Maybe worth a look to see what others did.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...de-129346.html
__________________
2014 Micro Lite 19fd
2015 F-150 5.0L V8 XLT Crew Cab, 4x4, Tow Package, 36 gal tank, 3.55 locker, 1891 payload, Integrated Brake Controller, Roadmaster Active Suspension

Wooden Spoon Survivor
HangDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 07:36 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriaBeck View Post
I'm just thinking, I've also got some 1 1/2" square tubing out in my shop... I could just use that between the frame rails and the support bar on either side, and let the tank sag to the center as well.


Looks like I've got a few options...
Mine looks a little different than yours and doesn't really sag much. That said I have considered using some C-Channel or Unistrut to hold up what sag there is. (Unistrut is called "Super Strut at Home Depot).

If I place two pieces of unistrut from side to side I can merely use a J-Bolt to hook over the outside of the frame flange and tighten it up.

As an alternative to a J-Bolt a piece of flat laying on top of the strut and drilled for a machine bolt could clamp the strut in place.

This would also be part of my plan to run a piece of conduit underneath the trailer for some future wiring mods.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 07:52 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
Mine looks a little different than yours and doesn't really sag much. That said I have considered using some C-Channel or Unistrut to hold up what sag there is. (Unistrut is called "Super Strut at Home Depot).

If I place two pieces of unistrut from side to side I can merely use a J-Bolt to hook over the outside of the frame flange and tighten it up.

As an alternative to a J-Bolt a piece of flat laying on top of the strut and drilled for a machine bolt could clamp the strut in place.

This would also be part of my plan to run a piece of conduit underneath the trailer for some future wiring mods.

Hmmmmmmm.....


I'll have to see if I can get something over the top of the frame rails...
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 08:07 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
I used large C chanel









This is the size difference to what was on it originally.


babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 09:02 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriaBeck View Post
Hmmmmmmm.....


I'll have to see if I can get something over the top of the frame rails...
All you need to "get over" is the lower flange and just clamp. A large square plate washer may be all you need to clamp in the flange. No drilling required.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 09:04 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
I used large C chanel









This is the size difference to what was on it originally.


Certainly stout enough. Out of curiosity, how heavy is one piece of that C-Channel?
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 09:22 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
Certainly stout enough. Out of curiosity, how heavy is one piece of that C-Channel?
Heavy and I didn't need to use that big. 2 pieces added around 70#
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 09:26 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 802
Nothing too strong ever broke.
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 10:19 PM   #18
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,871
Levelness also affects usable water space in your tank. This is why the tank may indicate "full" even though it is not and it can indicate 2/3 even when it is full (can't take more water).

How it is plumbed also effects when the overflow pipe "overflows" before the tank is full. Attempting to push water into the tank after the water is coming out of the overflow can pressurize the tank, rupturing it or bellying it out and breaking the supports.

Here are some photos and the service manual that explain the concepts.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Horst Probe Install 019.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	202.0 KB
ID:	233233   Click image for larger version

Name:	Horst Probe Install 020.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	314.8 KB
ID:	233234   Click image for larger version

Name:	Water%20Tank%201.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	52.8 KB
ID:	233235   Click image for larger version

Name:	pigtail ohms.JPG
Views:	13
Size:	43.6 KB
ID:	233238  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf KIB Monitor Panel M21 Wireing Diagram.pdf (51.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf Micro Monitor Panel Troubleshooting.pdf (149.2 KB, 3 views)
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:18 AM.