A couple of tankless water heater questions...

[roughing_it]

Hi all,

We're looking for our first RV and a model with a tankless water heater caught our eye. I've read through the forums a bit and have a general idea the pros and cons of a tankless system, but I still have a couple of questions:

1) From what I understand, some people find the tankless water heater uses more water than a tank-based system because it takes a while for the tankless system to get going. Presumably this is only an issue when dry camping, right? I mean, when you have a water connection, the tankless option is clearly preferable, since it gives you unlimited hot water and the tank-based heater only provides a limited amount. Am I thinking about that correctly?

2) Some of the residential tankless water heaters I've seen are very loud. Is this an issue with RV models too?

Thanks!

[Cypressloser]

You can not even mention residential on demand water heaters and rv on demand water heaters in the same sentence.
Residential is instant on, rv has a 30 sec. time delay every time plus the water temperature rises very slow over 15 to 20 sec. or so.
If you have a washing machine in your rv that takes small bursts of hot water you'll be out of luck, it simply doesn't work.
If you have a dishwasher hooked up on hot water, same deal.
If you're in the shower and someone opens any tap anywhere the water flow is being reduced to below the threshold of 1/2 gpm. the water heater shuts down.
You pay for propane even when you pay for electricity at the campground.
Trying to conserve water? Forget it, you can't shut it off while you wash your and turn it back on expecting to come out nice and warm, no it will be ice cold for the next 40 seconds.
Another huge problem, especially for fulltimers, can be calcification of the heater tubes which is not nearly the problem in a conventional hot water tank where you have easy access from the outside.
On the plus side, your rv weighs about 50 lbs less, depending on the water heater size.

I apologize for the rant, but this is our personal experience with the Girard 2nd. Generation and FR has authorized our dealer to replace the on demand water heater with a conventional hot water tank.

[tomkatb]

We chose not to have a tankless. We purchased a Cedar Creek Hathaway.

Because the way that one operates.

You have no option to use 110 when available. LPG only.

When plugged in you can use both the electric and gas for the ocassion when you need lots of back to back showers. Quick recovery 12 gallon.

Due to the way they operate, Navy showers(turning the water off to,lather and on to rinse) are uncomfortable. When you turn off the water, the water must flow some before the heating element comes on. Means cold shots. The Navy shower uses the least water possible. Could save water boondocking.

My wife grew up in a house with ten people, one shower and a thirty gallon hot water heater. It is the old style water heater she wanted.

[brian372lok]

We had a 6 gal gas/electric and did not often have an issue. If we thought we might we used both electrical and gas. Now we have 10 gallons and dont ever have an issue. Glad i dont have a tankless after reading this.

[Freebirds]

Our dealer switched out ours for a 12 gallon quick recovery tank (which is the same as our previous three fivers). We have never run out of hot water. However, other threads on this same subject have shown there are RVers who love the tankless model.

[NMWildcat]

We love our tankless! Girard gen 1, six years old. And we boondock 80% of the time. We use the same number of gallons per week as when we had a tank, 90 gallons. Period.

We do not see a 30 second wait for hot water, more like 8 to 10, same as a tank. Also see no fluctuation in temp.

As for the sound, we can hear the on demand kick on, but it is no louder than a water pump.

As far as gas only; the gas it uses is minimal. I can't say the increase is noticable at all, even when we stay at full hookups and take 2O minute showers (back to back

We hear all these horror stories about tankless in this forum, experienced none of them. Folks we meet who tell us they are having problems with theirs, we can fix most of them with a few quick demos on how to change your habits slightly, and correct usage.

If I was to buy a new RV now, I would probably go with Truma on demand, as it seems it has a lot of desirable features.

Don't let all the on demand naysayers scare you off. There are plenty of us out there that love them and will always buy this option again.

[SlfMdeFam]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

You can not even mention residential on demand water heaters and rv on demand water heaters in the same sentence.
Residential is instant on, rv has a 30 sec. time delay every time plus the water temperature rises very slow over 15 to 20 sec. or so.
If you have a washing machine in your rv that takes small bursts of hot water you'll be out of luck, it simply doesn't work.
If you have a dishwasher hooked up on hot water, same deal.
If you're in the shower and someone opens any tap anywhere the water flow is being reduced to below the threshold of 1/2 gpm. the water heater shuts down.
You pay for propane even when you pay for electricity at the campground.
Trying to conserve water? Forget it, you can't shut it off while you wash your and turn it back on expecting to come out nice and warm, no it will be ice cold for the next 40 seconds.
Another huge problem, especially for fulltimers, can be calcification of the heater tubes which is not nearly the problem in a conventional hot water tank where you have easy access from the outside.
On the plus side, your rv weighs about 50 lbs less, depending on the water heater size.

I apologize for the rant, but this is our personal experience with the Girard 2nd. Generation and FR has authorized our dealer to replace the on demand water heater with a conventional hot water tank.

You just explained what 90% of people who have a Tankless have experienced. Of course there’s always the one person who will say different. Being a plumber there’s no way there isn’t a time lag compared to a conventional water heater for delivering hot water to a tap. In return wasting water waiting for it to be hot. All tankless water heaters have a noise to them. All tankless water heaters will have fluctuations in temps due to an uneven heating surface. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Good explanation. Even in a regular home tankless water heaters have very little pros and more cons...

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Chris Allen

You just explained what 90% of people who have a Tankless have experienced. Of course there’s always the one person who will say different. Being a plumber there’s no way there isn’t a time lag compared to a conventional water heater for delivering hot water to a tap. In return wasting water waiting for it to be hot. All tankless water heaters have a noise to them. All tankless water heaters will have fluctuations in temps due to an uneven heating surface. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Good explanation. Even in a regular home tankless water heaters have very little pros and more cons...

90% of statistics are made up

[SlfMdeFam]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

90% of statistics are made up

And 100% of the time you say the opposite of what the norm says. Same difference.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Chris Allen

And 100% of the time you say the opposite of what the norm says. Same difference.

There it is again!!!!

[twells]

I absolutely love our tankless water heater. Is not loud and the water heats up fast in the bathroom. Takes a little longer in my kitchen. Only because the water heater is closer to the bathroom.

[Igave]

We’ve experienced most of the things listed other than noise,but getting by with it, mostly because we usually are hooked up. Given a choice right now we’d go back to a gas/electric, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker on a purchase either way. We figure we got a first generation Atwood and may end up replacing it with another brand that is much further along. But again, it wouldn’t make or break a deal for us.

[SEAYALL]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

We love our tankless! Girard gen 1, six years old. And we boondock 80% of the time. We use the same number of gallons per week as when we had a tank, 90 gallons. Period.

We do not see a 30 second wait for hot water, more like 8 to 10, same as a tank. Also see no fluctuation in temp.

As for the sound, we can hear the on demand kick on, but it is no louder than a water pump.

As far as gas only; the gas it uses is minimal. I can't say the increase is noticable at all, even when we stay at full hookups and take 2O minute showers (back to back

We hear all these horror stories about tankless in this forum, experienced none of them. Folks we meet who tell us they are having problems with theirs, we can fix most of them with a few quick demos on how to change your habits slightly, and correct usage.

If I was to buy a new RV now, I would probably go with Truma on demand, as it seems it has a lot of desirable features.

Don't let all the on demand naysayers scare you off. There are plenty of us out there that love them and will always buy this option again.

I have to agree with this ... motorhome with girard gen 2. Whole unit sells for around $400 , only other I’d do is aqua hot an it’s about 6k an maintenance. This is what I know, we were out 8 mos. we have dishwasher an wash machine,
We did not try to conserve.. it worked flawlessly , there is a learning curve, mainly get your water pressure right, I used a 55 adapter.. I ran hot water in sink then turn on dishwasher so it was hot. Dishes always clean.. an LP we used 1 1/4 tank in 8 mos. I agree I’d go to a Truma simply because it’s the latest technology in RV tankless, it has a bulb that keeps water in it hot so when you turn it on you have hot water without waiting. So I’m a believer.... an there’s just no maintenance to these things , it holds about 4oz of water at one time, an there’s a heating element comes on in cold weather , with gen 2 there’s a monitor that you can actually see an adjust temp an when flame is on.

[jamesarnold]

I had a 6 gallon tank on a Solera and have tankless now on a Thor. I think you just have to use them differently. With the Solera we took Navy showers to save capacity in the gray tank. We can't do that with the tankless because every time you turn it off you start again from scratch. Once you turn on hot water, keep it on. Ours is not noisy, and the time delay is not more than 10 seconds. I have not found the tankless to be that hard to get used to, but you do have to make some minor changes in how you use the hot water.

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

We love our tankless! Girard gen 1, six years old. And we boondock 80% of the time. We use the same number of gallons per week as when we had a tank, 90 gallons. Period.

We do not see a 30 second wait for hot water, more like 8 to 10, same as a tank. Also see no fluctuation in temp.

As for the sound, we can hear the on demand kick on, but it is no louder than a water pump.

As far as gas only; the gas it uses is minimal. I can't say the increase is noticable at all, even when we stay at full hookups and take 2O minute showers (back to back

We hear all these horror stories about tankless in this forum, experienced none of them. Folks we meet who tell us they are having problems with theirs, we can fix most of them with a few quick demos on how to change your habits slightly, and correct usage.

If I was to buy a new RV now, I would probably go with Truma on demand, as it seems it has a lot of desirable features.

Don't let all the on demand naysayers scare you off. There are plenty of us out there that love them and will always buy this option again.

We have the same camper, same WH and same experiences with one exception.

The first of the year we were in Bayou Segnette State Park in New Orleans. The temperature was COLD (at least for us down here) and the Girard Gen1 raised the temperature around 25-30 degrees. The problem was the water entering the camper was around 35 so all we could get were endless cold showers.

With this one exception we LOVE our WH and seldom camp when it is that cold so it is not really a problem for us.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

We have the same camper, same WH and same experiences with one exception.

The first of the year we were in Bayou Segnette State Park in New Orleans. The temperature was COLD (at least for us down here) and the Girard Gen1 raised the temperature around 25-30 degrees. The problem was the water entering the camper was around 35 so all we could get were endless cold showers.

With this one exception we LOVE our WH and seldom camp when it is that cold so it is not really a problem for us.

We boondocked this winter where it was usually 20 degrees every night, so we also had very cold input water from the tank. We have found that the oxygenics original shower head, combined with the hot water valve turned down far enough to limit flow, we still have as hot a shower as we desire, although the pressure/stream wasn't what we would of desired.

In the summer when we are in 100+ degree weather in AZ , we have the opposite problem and have to turn the hot valve to max and also turn in some cold water.

[tgold]

I agree. Just not meant for RV.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by tgold

I agree. Just not meant for RV.

So don't get one

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

So don't get one

EXACTLY................That is why they make All Kinds.................Because it takes All Kinds.............to satisfy All Kinds!

[gordonsick]

Advantages of a tankless water heater
• saves propane because you don't have to keep a tank hot
• saves weight
• convenient to blow out for winterization

Quirks of a tankless water heater
• takes a while to get a slug of hot water from tank to tap, which annoys some people. But, this also happens if you have a hot water tank.
• our Berk brings all water up to a manifold under the bathroom, so we coordinate our use of hot water to preserve the slug of hot water in the line from the heater to the manifold. Eg:
--wash dishes and then shower
–have everbody shower one after another, to preserve the slug of hot water
–brush your teeth from the hot water tap and then shower. This starts the slug of hot water down the line to the manifold. BTW, the tankless heater uses copper pipes, so the water is potable – no corrosion like you find sitting in a tank style water heater.
• when you wash your hands, use cold water. People tend to use the hot water tap, but shut it off before the hot water arrives. Meanwhile, you've wasted propane to get a hot slug of water that you don't use. This also applies to tank-type water heaters.
• military-style showers where you turn off the water while lathering do work well, if you swap out the shower valve and install a thermostatic shower valve, like a Delta Tempassure. I've written about this on this Forum. What happens is that turning off the heater gives a slug of warm but not hot water, since the heater contains some heat when the propane goes off. The thermostatic shower valve handles the temperature change and everything goes smoothly. Be sure to get a thermostatic shower valve, and not just a pressure balanced shower valve, which is cheaper.


–Gordon