Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-18-2010, 10:48 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
miatared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
Thumbs down Accumulator tank from Surflo

Well I installed the little accumulator tank from Surflo, and yes maybe I should have installed a larger one - like the 2 gallon ones sold at Lowes - in the US - but Lowes Canada does not seem to carry them.

In any event, it's installed and I'm struggling to see any benefits. The pump still starts as soon as I open any tap... I must not have set it up properly.

Here is how I set it up.
1. Turn off pump
2. Open one faucet, leave it open
3. Using bicycle pump, I put 40 PSI in the accumulator.
4. Turn pump on
5. Water strean is steady, close faucet.

Why will the pump still start right away.... should I not at least get 1-2 cup of water before it starts.... what am I doing wrong.

Thanks.
__________________
Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
miatared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 05:11 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 627
I couldn't find the card that came with my pressure tank that describes the amount of pressure that needs to be in the tank but I found this. Hope it helps.
Check the bladder pressure tank air charge
• Disconnect electrical power to the pump.
• Drain the tank by opening the closest faucet.
• Check tank pressure by placing a tire gauge on the air-
charging valve on top of the tank.
• Add air if the pressure is more than 2 psi below the pump cut-in pressure (lowest pressure in the range). Use a tire pump or air compressor. Use caution with
an air compressor.
• Release air if the pressure is 2 psi above the pump cut-in pressure.
• Check for leaks in the air charging system. Use a soap solution to check the air charging valve for leaks.
• Re-start the pump and run through a normal cycle to verify the setting.
Filthy Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 05:48 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
miatared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy Beast View Post
• Add air if the pressure is more than 2 psi below the pump cut-in pressure (lowest pressure in the range).
Thank you - nice to see someone who's up early too

I think that is my problem, but I am not sure how to measure the cut-in pressure from the pump and I cannot find it anywhere...

Here is what I understand, without accumulator:
1. Tap open, so pressure goes down to X PSI
2. Pump starts and pressurizes up to Z PSI
X is lower than Z.

The accumulator needs to be set to Z -2 PSI?

Thanks
__________________
Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
miatared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 05:51 AM   #4
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by miatared View Post
Thank you - nice to see someone who's up early too

I think that is my problem, but I am not sure how to measure the cut-in pressure from the pump and I cannot find it anywhere...

Here is what I understand, without accumulator:
1. Tap open, so pressure goes down to X PSI
2. Pump starts and pressurizes up to Z PSI
X is lower than Z.

The accumulator needs to be set to Z -2 PSI?

Thanks

Denis
mmmm I am thinking it will be X - 2. No?
If X is when the pump starts it will be the "cut in" pressure.

I have one out in the camper waiting for an ideal opportunity to install. I will go out and get the paperwork. BRB
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:07 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
miatared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
Hum....

The tank's role is essentially to fool the pump in thinking the pressure is still high - or over X so it won't start.

Right now I have set to 40 PSI. Probably too high me thinks. But then how would I know what the cut-in or pump start PSI?
__________________
Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
miatared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:21 AM   #6
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,230
Ok got the paperwork.

"The most efficient use of the accumulator occurs with the pre-charge set at the SAME pressure as the pump's pressure switch "turn on" setting. Typically, a 45 PSI pump will turn on around 30 PSI. Therefore, the pre-charge should also be 30 PSI. The pre-charge MUST be set in a "STATIC" condition (pump off and at least one water fixture opened.)

Depending on pre-charge pressure to the accumulator, in relation to the pump turn on/off pressures, stored liquid is about 2 to 4 OZ. If the accumulator tank pre-charge exceeds pump turn on pressure, the liquid volume is reduced."

2 to 4 OUNCES? WTF. Looks like this was a waste of money.
Not the first waste of money in my RV journey!

Oh and there is a NOTE that says it is not recommended for use with a 4900 or 5900 series smart sensor pump.
I will need to be checking THAT too.
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:26 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
miatared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
Ok got the paperwork.

"The most efficient use of the accumulator occurs with the pre-charge set at the SAME pressure as the pump's pressure switch "turn on" setting. Typically, a 45 PSI pump will turn on around 30 PSI. Therefore, the pre-charge should also be 30 PSI. The pre-charge MUST be set in a "STATIC" condition (pump off and at least one water fixture opened.)

Depending on pre-charge pressure to the accumulator, in relation to the pump turn on/off pressures, stored liquid is about 2 to 4 OZ. If the accumulator tank pre-charge exceeds pump turn on pressure, the liquid volume is reduced."

2 to 4 OUNCES? WTF. Looks like this was a waste of money.
Not the first waste of money in my RV journey!
Just like Mighty Mouse, you saved the day (OK I'm dating myself...)

40 is too high for sure then. I'll try 30 and see how it pans out.

2-4 oz - what a waste, ah well, when I'm in the US I'll get that 2 gallon tank from Lowes to replace it. At 40 PSI I probably have a teaspoon of water

Thank you.
__________________
Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
miatared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:43 AM   #8
Member
 
dichayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 83
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769
Ok got the paperwork.

"The most efficient use of the accumulator occurs with the pre-charge set at the SAME pressure as the pump's pressure switch "turn on" setting. Typically, a 45 PSI pump will turn on around 30 PSI. Therefore, the pre-charge should also be 30 PSI. The pre-charge MUST be set in a "STATIC" condition (pump off and at least one water fixture opened.)

Depending on pre-charge pressure to the accumulator, in relation to the pump turn on/off pressures, stored liquid is about 2 to 4 OZ. If the accumulator tank pre-charge exceeds pump turn on pressure, the liquid volume is reduced."

2 to 4 OUNCES? WTF. Looks like this was a waste of money.
Not the first waste of money in my RV journey!
I am a retired Controls Engineer. Part of my job was designing and trouble shooting hydraulic systems. Accumulators are not a cure all. They are used to eliminate dips in the fluid pressure when a new demand is added to the system. Depending on the system and application, the accumulator pressure is set from 1/2 to 3/4 of the running pressure.

I have a 1 pint accumulator in my HTT and the pressure is set at about 5/8 of the maximum pump pressure. It works great. It cuts down on the hammering of the system when the can is flushed or a faucet is turned on. It is not designed to supply enough water to the system so the pump will not turn on. It will quiet the system a certain amount.

I am pleased with the improvment that mine makes to my system. Hope this helps.
Dick
dichayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:50 AM   #9
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,230
Thanks Dick,

So you still think its worth installing? I was convinced I was going to have to EBay it and buy the larger unit.
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 07:03 AM   #10
Member
 
dichayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 83
It will quiet the pump. If you install a bigger unit, the pump will have to keep this large unit full. The acumulators are more to take the shock out of the system than to supply water. Give the small one a try with a pressure setting that is lower than the pump running pressure. This will improve the way your pump sounds. Good luck.
Dick
dichayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 07:06 AM   #11
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,230
Thanks, I will give it a try.
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 07:17 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,948
Quote:
Originally Posted by dichayer View Post
It will quiet the pump. If you install a bigger unit, the pump will have to keep this large unit full. The acumulators are more to take the shock out of the system than to supply water. Give the small one a try with a pressure setting that is lower than the pump running pressure. This will improve the way your pump sounds. Good luck.
Dick
If you are trying to qiet the pump try installing a cheap mouse pad under the pump. This buffers the sound and vibration.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pump.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	31.9 KB
ID:	3189  
Iggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 07:34 AM   #13
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,230
I have a plumber buddy who gave me several vibration damping squares used to mount AC air handlers and compressor units. I plan on using those in my installation. I was just waiting for a break in the camping schedule to do the work.
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 10:27 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
miatared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by dichayer View Post
It will quiet the pump. If you install a bigger unit, the pump will have to keep this large unit full. The acumulators are more to take the shock out of the system than to supply water. Give the small one a try with a pressure setting that is lower than the pump running pressure. This will improve the way your pump sounds. Good luck.
Dick
Dick you are 100% right - I just lowered the pressure to 28PSI and it performs well. It does improve, the pump starts less often - now I can really feel the difference.

I read on the tech data sheet for the classic pump that it is preset to 25 (on) and 40PSI (off) (+- 5)

Thank you so much.

Denis
__________________
Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
miatared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 12:37 PM   #15
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,230
I am feeling so much better about this project!
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 07:34 AM   #16
Member
 
dichayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 83
My pleasure.
Dick
dichayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 10:59 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 201
I let you camper work out the pressure to set for accumulator. One of the good thing about the accumulator is that it help control water expansion , when water heater is doing it thing,reducing high water line pressures. It help stop the T&P valve for leaking.
__________________
2010 wildcat 31ts
05 Ford F350 SD PS
camprat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 02:29 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Waynesville
Posts: 14,428
I put a 5 gal. press. tank in our unit.All nite flushing&hand washing,no pump running. Showering with a smooth no pulsing flow of water. The pump cut off press. is 40psi, the air in bladder is 30psi. Works just fine! Youroo!!
youroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 03:15 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
DAISY BOYKIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SUNSHINE STATE
Posts: 1,754
Send a message via Skype™ to DAISY BOYKIN
Glad you Fellows figured the pump-tank out

Have thought about it (installing tank), Now that a mix of RV scientist and engineers have figured out everything for me, now I can complete my project


Thanks fellows!
__________________
Sid & HRH MISSY, SHIH TZU
2019 WILDCAT 28 SGX
2014 F-250 KING RANCH PS 6.7L/SWD/6R140/BFT
TST Truck System Technologies TM-507SE
DAYS CAMPED 2022 51 DAYS
DAISY BOYKIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 06:11 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
miatared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
Smile

Glad we could help.

That is what these discussion boards are all about: knowledge transfer.

Fantastic.
__________________
Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
miatared is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.