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Old 08-29-2012, 03:55 PM   #1
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Elect water heater

i have a 6 gal suburban elect/gas water heater. i am being told the elect mode has limited use particulary in the summer when the ac is being used as it pulls too much juice when the ac, refer, and other applicances are on. so, i guess my question is...what good is it? only use when weather is cooler?
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:56 PM   #2
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We haven't ever had a problem with the fridge and water heater on electric, and the AC on.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy
We haven't ever had a problem with the fridge and water heater on electric, and the AC on.
This may be an issue if the cg is experiencing a heavy draw of power and you are on 30 amp. I only had this problem once and it was due to low power at the cg.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy
We haven't ever had a problem with the fridge and water heater on electric, and the AC on.
Me either .......
3 weeks ago camping
A/c
Electric Hw heater
Electric fridge
Converter


95 degrees and no issue.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #5
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With AC, WH, and reefer on you might trip the 30 amp breaker that is located on the post. The amp draw for the AC is 12 to 16 amps, WH 9 to 13 amps, reefer 5 to 8 amps and the converter 1 to 8 amps. If you are at the low end of all items used then your draw will be 27 amps. If you are at the high end then you are drawing 45 amps. The WH might work when using AC but it also could cause the breaker to trip.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:34 PM   #6
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The original poster (OP)'s question had more to do with an older campground owner's warning I am sure.

When there is a high demand in high temperatures the aluminum wire typically used to feed the older 30 amp only sites become overloaded. High current coupled with hot aluminum wire reduces the ability of the service to provide the full 30 amps per served site. This available service is reduced further when older sockets and connections are taken into consideration. 30 amp rated aluminum wire becomes overloaded in the 27 amp range and voltage can drop below 100 volts resulting in air conditioner damaging brownouts.

This issue was covered extensively in a thread in July this year (and previously I am sure). I will look for it.

Ah! Here it is! http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ing-26268.html


http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ite-26841.html
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769
The original poster (OP)'s question had more to do with an older campground owner's warning I am sure.

When there is a high demand in high temperatures the aluminum wire typically used to feed the older 30 amp only sites become overloaded. High current coupled with hot aluminum wire reduces the ability of the service to provide the full 30 amps per served site. This available service is reduced further when older sockets and connections are taken into consideration. 30 amp rated aluminum wire becomes overloaded in the 27 amp range and voltage can drop below 100 volts resulting in air conditioner damaging brownouts.

This issue was covered extensively in a thread in July this year (and previously I am sure). I will look for it.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ite-26841.html
Personally I think camp ground s doing this is b.s.
You pay for 30 amp you should receive 30 amps

We were at a camp ground this summer (first time there ) they wanted us to run our fridge and Hw heater on gas because of this . I asked them if I got a discount and there reply was no . So was my answer.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1100turbo View Post
Personally I think camp ground s doing this is b.s.
You pay for 30 amp you should receive 30 amps

We were at a camp ground this summer (first time there ) they wanted us to run our fridge and Hw heater on gas because of this. I asked them if I got a discount and there reply was no . So was my answer.
Ron,

This works great if your site is close to the main junction box as you get first dibs on the available current and your voltage is still "reasonable" due to the shorter run. As you get further from the source, your attitude about folks who soak up what power is available will will drop almost as fast as delivered voltage. You will certainly get all the amps you paid for, but at about 95 volts at the end of the run.

So if you want to use all the available wattage in mid July, be sure to pick a site next to the main campground store.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:17 PM   #9
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Hmmmm guess that's why we reserved sight number 3 lol
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:20 PM   #10
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,

don't be surprised if a gremlin switches off your water heater in the middle of the night.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:16 PM   #11
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I did read with my hot water heater, that you should use both the gas and electric part. I have a quick recovery model. When I am just using it in electric mode, it takes awhile to heat the water after a tank has been used, for instance, after a shower. If I use just gas, the heat up and recovery time is quick, but you are using your propane.
Using both, the electric heating element pretty much is all that is used to maintain temperature, and my propane only kicks on when that quick recovery mode sets in. So the way I understand it, and some others that have confirmend it for me is use both when you can, the electric will maintain the water, and the propane will give it a bost when needed. I am assuming that your water heater is of course a quick revcovery model. I have tested this theory, and it does really work great/ With just electric, i had to wat a few hours if I used all the hot water while giving the kids a bath for instance and I wanted to shower after. With both on, and the quick recovery mode, I have yet to run out of hot water doing anything. Good Luck
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:31 PM   #12
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Propane is much more efficient at heating water (and ammonia but that is a separate deal) than electric. The argument for using "electric only" is that it is "free" with the site fee and you are paying extra for the propane.

Using both, if available, does result in a faster recovery since you have two separate systems trying to heat that water at the same time. Getting the water hot is a function of transferring BTUs (heat) into the water. BTUs from propane PLUS BTUs from the electric element results in faster water heating.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #13
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amps

In our unit the 15k a/c fridge converter and hot water heater pull about 32 amps....if the water is hot and not cold does not trip anything...but don t touch that microwave....that extra 9 amps blows it every time....
If you don t have a surge guard put it on the wish list and get one that give volts and amps and has auto reset......mine shuts down at 108 V
But I still monitor when visually using high loads to see what they pull and if the voltage is high enough.....as amps increase seems voltage decreases.....and that low voltage over time will do damage.....
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:43 PM   #14
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I installed the HOTT ROD heater in the water heater as soon as we purchased our Coach. The rated wattage is 400 and only pulls around 4 amps. I am on 50 amp service and have never had a problem running both AC's along with anything else.

I am not sure what heater the OP has in their water heater, but 4 amps should not be a problem with a 30 amp service and running the AC.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:31 PM   #15
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As with any resistance load (like a heating element) the load is measured in watts not "amps" or "volts". It takes both being available in sufficient quantity to come up with the required watts.

For example: The Suburban 6 gallon RV Hot water heater in my camper has a 1000 Watt element in it. If the volts being delivered to the camper are 120 VAC; then the current required by the element to "create" 1000 Watts of "work" is 1000/120= 8.33 amps.

As the voltage being provided to the camper drops due to load increases along the line, the "amp demand" by that water heater increases.

If the line voltage drops to 110 volts, the current burned by that 1000 Watt heating element increases to 1000/110 = 9.09 amps

If the line voltage drops to 100 volts, the current demand of that heating element will rise to 10 amps.

Inductive loads like air conditioner motors have capacitors to assist in the process of getting them started. Keeping them spinning takes much less current than starting them spinning.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:41 PM   #16
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Lou, here is why I made the comment I did. This is quote from Hott Rod site (The Original Hott Rod).

"Designed to operate on 110V AC (240V available outside USA) which can be provided through hook up or RV generator. Universal 6 gallon kits are rated at 450 watts and draw about 4 amps. Universal 10 gallon kits are rated 675 watts and these draw about 6 amps."

I fully understand where you are coming from on lower voltage, higher amps. My 6 gallon tank has the 450 watt element. I don't know what the OP is using. If they are running either the 450 or 675 (4-6amps at normal voltage) they should have no problem running the hot water heater and the A/C at the same time.

What do you think?
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:50 PM   #17
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The OP said he had the same unit as me; a 6 gallon Suburban with the 1000 Watt heater. My 15K air conditioner pulls 28 amps on start up and 15 amps running. I can watch it with my new 120 VAC power control panel.

If my water heater is on electric, my AC will not start, but hammers like crazy trying then blows the breakers.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:57 PM   #18
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I agree on the surge protector. I have the hard wired version from progressive industries. I read a lot and this seemed to be the one to get. It has a remote display that shows voltage and also amp draw. So you can see what you are drawing, and manage your power if need be. I have 30 amp and have not had a problem running ac and HW at the same time....when I am at my family's camp, I only have a 20 amp circuit, so I monitor my usage. I with just the ac and fridge, I draw about 14-17 amps..so you souls be good with the hot water, but that pretty much maxes you out.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:06 PM   #19
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Lou - Any resistive load follows ohm's law. E=IR. A 1000 watt resistive heating element only is 1000 watts at rated voltage. The resistance stays about constant with reducing voltage (some temperature effect) - the current and therefore the wattage decrease with decreasing voltage. 1000 watts at 120 volts resistive is about 8.33 amps and 14.4 ohms. At 100 volts, the 14.4 ohm resistor (element) will draw about 6.9 amps. It will therefore dissipate 690 watts rather than 1000 watts.
Of note, your Franks autotransformer WILL pull more current from the mains at lower mains voltage to keep the heating element at 120 volts and therefore 1000 watts - even though the mains are only supplying 100 volts. The Franks will pull 1000 watts plus it's efficiency factor from the mains - 10 plus amps at 100 volts.

By the way - love your posts - keep up the good work! This is only the second one I disagreed with ... gives you about a 99.9999% hit rate!
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:28 AM   #20
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how does one interpret that the OP has a 1000 water heater element? I re-read the original post and no where in the post does it state a 1000 watt element.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand how you know his is 1000 watts?
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