Fresh Water tank issue, need advice and help

[dmdomokos]

I did exactly what you did. I believe the hose pressure going in exceeded what the vent could handle, thus expanding the tank and breaking the supports. I also think trailering with a full tank contributed to the issue. Here is how I trailered until I got it fixed. I also had it reinforced to be able to tow with a full tank as FR doesn't recommend that practice. Warranty will not cover it.

[BandJCarm]

Thanks again to all.

I took it to the dealer yesterday. I gave them one week to fix it or I will go get it (I Have to.......have to leave for booked camping trips). They agreed that they would do everything possible to get to it, and if they caused it, they will fix it. There's no doubt they left a tank full of water, and regardless of what I did, that could not have been good!!!

They did not fight me in any way.........just agreed to work on it best they could. I apologized profusely for 'needing' it done in an expedited manner, and they said they understood and would do their best. However, there was literally nowhere to park it as they had so many trailers in for repair!!

So, I will remain hopeful.

And by next Wed or so, I will just have to go get it. If it is not fixed by then, I guess I will somehow get under the trailer and pull the cover (a zillion screws is all holding it, best I can see), throw away the wet insulation, and put the cover back up, and just use city water (assuming IT works!!!). That's a worst case scenario.

Rancho Santa Margarita!! Wow, I couldn't live there! LOL But that's actually a head-slapping good idea! I did NOT think of that (and I bet I have 40 ratchet straps!!). It might take two (then I'd only have 38.......LOL). But great idea.

I will let y'all know how it turns out. But right now, it would be best if no one happens to offer me what I owe on this thing.............

[BandJCarm]

P.S.
I have sent the pictures and description to Cedar Creek Warranty. But in all good conscience, I can't imagine this being a CC issue whatsoever. But I did want to document this with them, given the litany of issues I've had in first 11 months.

[BandJCarm]

Latest info:

Tank shows no leaks or cracks!! They have dropped it out, and are going to air pressure test it further, then water pressure test it. But the straps that hold it in are broken and need replaced (read: Order new straps, wait weeks for delivery), and the pieces welded onto the frame are broken at the spot weld. The only way I can go on our long trip(s) starting 04/10 is to leave the FW tank out entirely, replace the belly pan, and take off..........meanwhile they will order parts and I'll get a permanent fix in June when I get back. Who pays (probably me) and how all that will work out, will be discussed at that time. All my sites are FHU sites on the trips, so I'll just use city water till then. I asked them to test the city water hookup to make sure IT isn't leaking also. Plan is to pick it up next Wednesday.

[dmdomokos]

I wouldn't accept the replacement bracket, it's not very strong. I had my shop use new steel and weld in new stronger supports. Took a week. Now I can tow full with no worries.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by dmdomokos

I wouldn't accept the replacement bracket, it's not very strong. I had my shop use new steel and weld in new stronger supports. Took a week. Now I can tie full with no worries.

X2..............
Replacing with the same part solves nothing. Hopefully the dealer has a few brains cells and can figure that out.

It's amazing how they approach these tank support problems with an it's a no big deal attitude. I know when It comes to Rockwood despite all the issues reported here and other places, to this day they're still using the same tank and same Lippert support assembly that fails.

[thehossman]

Sorry I'm using this as a "reply". Can't seem to find out how to issue a "new" post. I'm a newbie.

I can't seem to find out how to drain my fresh water tank. I have a 2017 Micro Lite 23'. Found the hot water tank drain and the "system" drain. Removed the caps and got about 6 gallons of water out. But the dealer put about 20 gallons in the fresh tank and I want to drain it and refill.

HELP!!

[BandJCarm]

I picked up the trailer yesterday, but I guess I'm somewhat stumped. Now, I am not sure that simply overfilling the FW tank with water caused this problem. Check this out.

They took out the FW tank (see pics below) and it is not cracked. It passed pressure tests. HOWEVER, it is 'deformed'. The pic of the tank doesn't show that well, but it is, it's clearly obvious. The bigger issue and the biggest headscratcher is the supports of the tank and the straps. The supports are bent to Holy Heck!! The straps pulled out where they were connected. How did the supports get bent? And guess what else? The air vent tube (clearly visible in the picture) was pinched almost shut! The pic I took today didn't show that but it is. He said if the vent tube didn't allow air out, then the tank would swell up like a balloon.....which is probably what deformed it (??). No one knows for sure. It's a conundrum.

Thinking back, we've rarely used the FW tank this first year. Leaving water in it over winter wasn't good, but they said the issues they see are almost 100% not caused by freezing water in tank. Could it be the water run in it for so long? Possible, but they think it would have just overflowed mostly........and no way that would cause the bent supports. Their idea? After working on the black tank and now this tank, and the slides, they think I got a "Monday/Friday" Trailer!!! (Reference Alex Haley in "Wheels".........where he said Detroit cars made on Monday or Friday had a high chance of being junk!). The factory doesn't work on Friday (I think?) so maybe I got a Monday trailer. Mine was ordered.....not bought off of the lot. And the inside had "RUSH" written on the generator prep support. So, I dunno.

Bottom line........they have ordered an entirely new assembly......fresh water tank, supports, straps, etc etc........but it will not be here in a week, so I will use the City Water on FHU only...........which they tested. I'm going to test it further before we leave Monday and make ice, at least, and ensure everything works. When we get back late May, I'll take it back in (assuming parts are in by then) and they'll put it all back together.

I'm impressed they did all this for a trailer not bought there, and did it all in a week because I had to have it. They have about 12 bazillion trailers in the shop.........way more than they have for sale!

So, I am sorry the pics are not great. Hard to see the bent parts without blowing the pics up, but maybe you can see a little bit.

One other note that stumps me even more. I told them to make sure they got new insulation if they put it back in, because I KNEW that the old would be soaked. But guess what? It was dry as a bone.

I now suspect (??) that the pinched off vent tube is a huge culprit in this, and possibly that way from the factory. Just no way to know for sure.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by thehossman

Sorry I'm using this as a "reply". Can't seem to find out how to issue a "new" post. I'm a newbie.

I can't seem to find out how to drain my fresh water tank. I have a 2017 Micro Lite 23'. Found the hot water tank drain and the "system" drain. Removed the caps and got about 6 gallons of water out. But the dealer put about 20 gallons in the fresh tank and I want to drain it and refill.

HELP!!

Hossman,
Your first post. Welcome!

As a newbie, I'll suggest you read the FAQ portion of this forum. Lots of good information there.

I don't know what platform you are using on this site so I can't answer your new post question specifically (mobile is different than web browser) but below is a screen shot of where the new post button is using a web browser.

You'll need to go to the root of whatever section of the forum you want to post in and you'll see the new post button.

As for your fresh tank drain... shame on your dealer for not pointing out some of the very basic R/V 101 things that should have been covered in your PDI/Customer Orientation.

[5picker]

BandJ,

Sorry you are having such a mess!

I really believe (regardless of what the repair facility says) your issues were caused by your tank being filled, then frozen. That's why the tank is permanently deformed. Having the vent tube kinked shut didn't help either. It's possible it swelled on filling (because the vent was kinked) then froze in the deformed state and made it even worse.

Understand, if they replace the tank and replace the tank brackets/straps with the stock stuff, you WILL continue to have issues. Be sure they use something stronger to support the tank. They are going to have to manufacture something. The stock stuff simply won't support it.

[BandJCarm]

I brought that up. They said they'd figure something along those lines out when it all came in. I agree......... The question they had was how to put something like welded rods in place to hold the tank better, and then need to get it back out later for some reason.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

I picked up the trailer yesterday, but I guess I'm somewhat stumped. Now, I am not sure that simply overfilling the FW tank with water caused this problem. Check this out.

They took out the FW tank (see pics below) and it is not cracked. It passed pressure tests. HOWEVER, it is 'deformed'.

<SNIP>

The supports are bent to Holy Heck!! The straps pulled out where they were connected. How did the supports get bent?

And guess what else? The air vent tube (clearly visible in the picture) was pinched almost shut! The pic I took today didn't show that but it is. He said if the vent tube didn't allow air out, then the tank would swell up like a balloon.....which is probably what deformed it (??). No one knows for sure. It's a conundrum.


<SNIP>
One other note that stumps me even more. I told them to make sure they got new insulation if they put it back in, because I KNEW that the old would be soaked. But guess what? It was dry as a bone.

I now suspect (??) that the pinched off vent tube is a huge culprit in this, and possibly that way from the factory. Just no way to know for sure.

WOW buddy - so sorry that you are having these issues (but outstanding that the dealership is doing all that great warranty work for you!)

My .02¢? I agree with 5picker. When water freezes, it will expand by 9% or so. The expansion is most likely the culprit of the torqued support rails (the tanks are usually put on the rails with a real close tolerance; after all you don't want a 100 GAL FWT (@ 830 LBS!) banging around on those rails as you go bouncing down the road )

[BandJCarm]

What should I suggest to them to get instead of straps (or in addition to?) to hold tank in better?

[5picker]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

What should I suggest to them to get instead of straps (or in addition to?) to hold tank in better?

BandJ,

I mean this in the nicest way... if they don't have a clue how to make tank brackets and straps that are heavier yet can still be removed... you've got the wrong folks working on it.

It really doesn't have to be re-engineered... it just has to be heavier duty.

My 2¢.

[ScottBrownstein]

X3 on the frozen water and tank expansion. I can't see from your photos but it looks like the angle iron is installed with the vertical web pointing down. If the tank freezes it will expand more in the middle since it is weaker there and the deflection will force the angle to bend since it is tight to the floor above.

You don't need a new design, although it would be nice if the angle were heavier gauge if available. Others have had problems with only the tank weight when full, even without the expansion from freezing.

[BandJCarm]

Thanks guys.

I didn't mean to say they didn't know how. I just said they said "We'll deal with that (heavier support) when we get all the parts and you get back and get it back in here, and we decide what to do", or words to that effect........

[dmdomokos]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

X3 on the frozen water and tank expansion. I can't see from your photos but it looks like the angle iron is installed with the vertical web pointing down. If the tank freezes it will expand more in the middle since it is weaker there and the deflection will force the angle to bend since it is tight to the floor above.

You don't need a new design, although it would be nice if the angle were heavier gauge if available. Others have had problems with only the tank weight when full, even without the expansion from freezing.

I had my fresh water tank break out as well. I think what we are saying is that if you're under there anyway, why not beef it up so there is no issue when you need to pull with a full fresh water tank. FR doesn't recommend nor will they warranty a tank support if towing with a full tank is the cause of the failure. That's what happened to me.

[BamaBob]

BandJ - the "Stock" Bands should work - just do not fill your FWT in the fall and then let it freeze over winter

[BandJCarm]

Emailed dealer rep. He emailed back saying "We'll beef it up better than the straps".

I didn't fill it. They did. But next year, I will check it (assuming it's installed!!!)

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by dmdomokos

I had my fresh water tank break out as well. I think what we are saying is that if you're under there anyway, why not beef it up so there is no issue when you need to pull with a full fresh water tank. FR doesn't recommend nor will they warranty a tank support if towing with a full tank is the cause of the failure. That's what happened to me.

Which is a load of BS on FR's part.

Show me one piece of documentation, either in a manual, a sticker, or anywhere else that tells you not to tow with a full water tank. Even the yellow sticker they put on that tells you the weight of a full tank of water, says nothing about not towing with a full tank. Are these travel trailers or dry travel trailers? The purpose of the water tank is so your self contained.

Keystone and Aerolite do not use the Lippert tank support assemblies, which is why their water tanks do not fall out or sag. My Aerolite hybrid had a 52 gallon fresh tank and it stayed in place being full every time the trailer was used. Forest River and Lippert evidently want to refuse to acknowlege the problem to save the $4 more it would cost for a couple pounds of extra steel needed to increase the spreader size.