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Old 11-19-2020, 08:20 PM   #21
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With several projects in mind, I took down the underbelly today. I can report that the support structure under 60 gallon fresh water tank shows no sign movement or bending at all. That's despite my having taken a camping trip with a full tank on rough roads.

Considering the new improvements including more supports and bolts through the ends to keep them from pulling out, I have no qualms about driving with it full.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
With several projects in mind, I took down the underbelly today. I can report that the support structure under 60 gallon fresh water tank shows no sign movement or bending at all. That's despite my having taken a camping trip with a full tank on rough roads.

Considering the new improvements including more supports and bolts through the ends to keep them from pulling out, I have no qualms about driving with it full.
Well that's not going to help the "Don't travel with water or your tank will fall out" crowd's argument any
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:15 PM   #23
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Well that's not going to help the "Don't travel with water or your tank will fall out" crowd's argument any
I wouldn't have done that with my 2014 hybrid. Rockwood substantially improved the support system since then.
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:20 AM   #24
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Mine didn't actually fall out of my 2020 Greywolf, it just sags down to an inch above the axle. Therefore you can't use much of the water because it's well below the suction hose. It is held in with thin metal strips like on the old metal lawn chair chaise lounges. Dealer says they will fix it next year along with all the other issues. We'll see, It would be nice to be able to use the TT we paid for in full and can't enjoy.
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
I wouldn't have done that with my 2014 hybrid. Rockwood substantially improved the support system since then.
So often it seems people make comments like "I have never had a problem so people are worrying for nothing" or similar sentiments. When in truth, a LOT depends on what kind of travel trailer/RV you have. Or how lucky you have been. My little Salem is NOT well reinforced or well made, as evidenced by all the warnings in the owners manual - which I am going to heed. I am not sure why some people have to ridicule legitimate concerns "just because they never had a problem." I can't rely on how well other people's trailers were made, or their good luck, when I am on the road. What you said makes the most sense - you decide, based on your unit, and your level of willingness to take risks.
We each have to use our judgment based on our individual trailers, what the manufacturers tell us, and our willingness to take risks/break down on the road/have to pay for unexpected repairs. I am not sure why some people feel the need to ridicule others, and I thank you for your tempered response - we all decide based on our circumstances.
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:49 AM   #26
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So often it seems people make comments like "I have never had a problem so people are worrying for nothing" or similar sentiments. When in truth, a LOT depends on what kind of travel trailer/RV you have. Or how lucky you have been. My little Salem is NOT well reinforced or well made, as evidenced by all the warnings in the owners manual - which I am going to heed. I am not sure why some people have to ridicule legitimate concerns "just because they never had a problem." I can't rely on how well other people's trailers were made, or their good luck, when I am on the road. What you said makes the most sense - you decide, based on your unit, and your level of willingness to take risks.
We each have to use our judgment based on our individual trailers, what the manufacturers tell us, and our willingness to take risks/break down on the road/have to pay for unexpected repairs. I am not sure why some people feel the need to ridicule others, and I thank you for your tempered response - we all decide based on our circumstances.
You are right... we all base our decisions on our needs.

My needs say I must carry a full tank of fresh water and I would NOT purchase a R/V that could not do that. But... I know what has happened with some units through the years and I'd do my homework before buying.

On the other hand, if someone with no R/V experience buys a R/V 'thinking' they can carry a full tank of fresh water and really can't because the manufacturer skimped out on the build quality and puts BIG LETTERS in the manual about not doing so, didn't do their due diligence and then come here complaining the R/V is junk... well then... I don't believe it incorrect to point out to those folks they made the wrong choice.

Just my 2 ...
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:21 AM   #27
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You are right... we all base our decisions on our needs.

My needs say I must carry a full tank of fresh water and I would NOT purchase a R/V that could not do that. But... I know what has happened with some units through the years and I'd do my homework before buying.

On the other hand, if someone with no R/V experience buys a R/V 'thinking' they can carry a full tank of fresh water and really can't because the manufacturer skimped out on the build quality and puts BIG LETTERS in the manual about not doing so, didn't do their due diligence and then come here complaining the R/V is junk... well then... I don't believe it incorrect to point out to those folks they made the wrong choice.

Just my 2 ...

I agree with all you say but with two comments.

As for the "Owners Manual" I find that they are very lacking in real information. So generic that the factory would be better off to just put all the supplier information in it for appliances, etc and leave well enough alone. So much information that contradicts what the actual maker of parts publishes on their websites (ie: tank heater pads) and no IMPORTANT information like wiring diagrams, locations of hidden fuses, etc.

To water tank failures, the first to be blamed is lousy construction yet rarely does the actions of the user get mentioned.

Over my years of owning and renting RV's (MH's) I've noticed that a common practice when filling the water tank is to merely stick the end of the hose in the fill port (gravity fill), turn the water on, then go attend to other things. I even noticed this one day when returning a rental MH. The owner of the rental company stuck the hose in, turned on the water and then came back when water was spurting 5 feet away from the fill port.

The vent's on most tanks with gravity fill are rarely bigger than 1/4"-3/8" holes and in no way can handle the overflow caused by a hose delivering water at 50psi average. One can only imagine how much a tank swells, going from a rectangular shape to a "blimp". When the tank supports fail it's always the fault of the factory. If a tank is 2' X 4' in it's footprint that means that any pressure coming IN can be multiplied as much as 8X. 50 Pounds per square INCH means now there is now around 28 tons of pressure. (1sq foot =144 sq inches X 8 total sq ft X 50 psi=57,600 PSI.)

Owners with gravity fill tanks would do well to use a small diameter hose attachment to limit flow into the tank so both the vent and fill pipe can release any pressure buildup. I doubt that factories will ever change the vent size to one that can release pressure as fast as water enters even if the fill port is occluded by the hose end.

To those who have reinforced their tank bottoms to make sure they never fall out, caution during filling is still required. The bottom may not blow out factory support but what about lifting the floor of the trailer from where it's attached to the frame????



I won't deny that some supports were improperly designed and/or installed. That doesn't eliminate both what you stated regarding "due diligence" AND the necessary caution the owner should take when filling the tank to make sure it doesn't fill faster than it can vent.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:27 AM   #28
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I'm glad my gravity fill hose is about the diameter of a pool vacuum hose, PLUS there is a vent hose about the diameter of the water lines to the faucets. Maybe they are just getting it right now. And lateral tank supports. I read in disbelief another poster has only angle iron supports along the long edges. I can easily imagine the unsupported tank sag causing the tank to slip off one of the edges of the angle iron going over bumps in the road.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:40 AM   #29
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I'm glad my gravity fill hose is about the diameter of a pool vacuum hose, PLUS there is a vent hose about the diameter of the water lines to the faucets. Maybe they are just getting it right now. And lateral tank supports. I read in disbelief another poster has only angle iron supports along the long edges. I can easily imagine the unsupported tank sag causing the tank to slip off one of the edges of the angle iron going over bumps in the road.
My factory support is also angle iron along front and rear of tank bottom. It does however have cross supports that are locked into the angle iron with tabs on the end and notches in the main support. Weight of the tank/water keeps cross supports from jarring out of place and becoming unlocked and the tabs also keep the main support rails from spreading.

The sag between supports is annoying but I used some strut material to add support where tank was sagging. I figure the sagging in my tank made a few gallons unreachable but that's a different issue than a tank falling out.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:42 AM   #30
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yeah, thanks to lateral supports just like yours, the sag in between is negligible, and I imagine decreases as tank empties. I've never crawled under there with a full tank to see how much it actually sags, now I'm curious.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:58 AM   #31
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I'm glad my gravity fill hose is about the diameter of a pool vacuum hose, PLUS there is a vent hose about the diameter of the water lines to the faucets. Maybe they are just getting it right now. And lateral tank supports. I read in disbelief another poster has only angle iron supports along the long edges. I can easily imagine the unsupported tank sag causing the tank to slip off one of the edges of the angle iron going over bumps in the road.
X2 about the gravity fill ports. Every RV that I'm familiar with that uses gravity fill has a large hose for the fill port, plus a vent tube. So I have no problem sticking the water hose in the fill port and walking away. I can't turn the hose on full blast anyway or it will puke. So if I forget I've got the water running, I know the excess will come out the fill port without damaging the tank or floor. No worries. Now if I had a system w/o a gravity fill and used city pressure to fill, that's a completely different story.
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Old 11-20-2020, 12:28 PM   #32
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I agree with all you say but with two comments.

As for the "Owners Manual" I find that they are very lacking in real information. So generic that the factory would be better off to just put all the supplier information in it for appliances, etc and leave well enough alone. So much information that contradicts what the actual maker of parts publishes on their websites (ie: tank heater pads) and no IMPORTANT information like wiring diagrams, locations of hidden fuses, etc.

To water tank failures, the first to be blamed is lousy construction yet rarely does the actions of the user get mentioned.

Over my years of owning and renting RV's (MH's) I've noticed that a common practice when filling the water tank is to merely stick the end of the hose in the fill port (gravity fill), turn the water on, then go attend to other things. I even noticed this one day when returning a rental MH. The owner of the rental company stuck the hose in, turned on the water and then came back when water was spurting 5 feet away from the fill port.

The vent's on most tanks with gravity fill are rarely bigger than 1/4"-3/8" holes and in no way can handle the overflow caused by a hose delivering water at 50psi average. One can only imagine how much a tank swells, going from a rectangular shape to a "blimp". When the tank supports fail it's always the fault of the factory. If a tank is 2' X 4' in it's footprint that means that any pressure coming IN can be multiplied as much as 8X. 50 Pounds per square INCH means now there is now around 28 tons of pressure. (1sq foot =144 sq inches X 8 total sq ft X 50 psi=57,600 PSI.)

Owners with gravity fill tanks would do well to use a small diameter hose attachment to limit flow into the tank so both the vent and fill pipe can release any pressure buildup. I doubt that factories will ever change the vent size to one that can release pressure as fast as water enters even if the fill port is occluded by the hose end.

To those who have reinforced their tank bottoms to make sure they never fall out, caution during filling is still required. The bottom may not blow out factory support but what about lifting the floor of the trailer from where it's attached to the frame????



I won't deny that some supports were improperly designed and/or installed. That doesn't eliminate both what you stated regarding "due diligence" AND the necessary caution the owner should take when filling the tank to make sure it doesn't fill faster than it can vent.
More good advice. Thank you from a newbie.
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:37 PM   #33
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I had problems filling my 60 gallon tank before. It stopped filling at 26 (metered) gallons. On a later attempt I filled with more slowly and got all 60 gallons in.

While inspecting it yesterday I noted that the gravity fill hose drops below the point where it enters the tank. It's essentially a P trap. I suspect that will impede flow and, unless someone here informs me otherwise, I plan to suspend it to eliminate the dip.
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:42 PM   #34
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I had problems filling my 60 gallon tank before. It stopped filling at 26 (metered) gallons. On a later attempt I filled with more slowly and got all 60 gallons in.

While inspecting it yesterday I noted that the gravity fill hose drops below the point where it enters the tank. It's essentially a P trap. I suspect that will impede flow and, unless someone here informs me otherwise, I plan to suspend it to eliminate the dip.
Mine does the same thing. I just fill it slow, never been a problem in 9 years. I'm too lazy to do repairs that aren't absolutely necessary
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:45 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
I had problems filling my 60 gallon tank before. It stopped filling at 26 (metered) gallons. On a later attempt I filled with more slowly and got all 60 gallons in.

While inspecting it yesterday I noted that the gravity fill hose drops below the point where it enters the tank. It's essentially a P trap. I suspect that will impede flow and, unless someone here informs me otherwise, I plan to suspend it to eliminate the dip.
If the vent hose is connected at the top of the tank that shouldn't be a problem unless vent hose is kinked. If air can get out water will still flow through that "p-trap".

A problem I had on my old trailer was that the vent connection to the tank was at one end near the top and in a corner. If trailer wasn't level or on a position where vent wasn't highest point, tank wouldn't fill completely.

Mostly happened when filling "on the road" rather than at home on pad or in a campground when set up.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:51 PM   #36
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Mine does the same thing. I just fill it slow, never been a problem in 9 years. I'm too lazy to do repairs that aren't absolutely necessary
If I didn't already have the bottom cover off for multiple other projects, I wouldn't think of doing it, either. As it is, tying it up to a cross member with a piece of wire adds 2 minutes to my planned work.
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Old 11-20-2020, 03:22 PM   #37
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If I didn't already have the bottom cover off for multiple other projects, I wouldn't think of doing it, either. As it is, tying it up to a cross member with a piece of wire adds 2 minutes to my planned work.
Nice!.....
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:18 PM   #38
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I agree with all you say but with two comments.


If a tank is 2' X 4' in it's footprint that means that any pressure coming IN can be multiplied as much as 8X. 50 Pounds per square INCH means now there is now around 28 tons of pressure. (1sq foot =144 sq inches X 8 total sq ft X 50 psi=57,600 PSI.)
Im sorry, I think your math is heavily flawed. Pressure will not be multiplied by the area of the footprint of the tank, this is not a hydraulic cylinder were talking about. I fail to see the logic in that, I agree that there can be SOME pressure when the tank is overfilled and the overflow is too small to carry all the overflow, but some of it will come out of the IN as well,
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:48 PM   #39
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Math was never my strong suit

But if there is 57K PSI of any substance any in my trailer...................I am Running!!!!!!!!

Just saying...........Now I will let the math heads battle it out


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Old 11-21-2020, 02:38 AM   #40
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Im sorry, I think your math is heavily flawed. Pressure will not be multiplied by the area of the footprint of the tank, this is not a hydraulic cylinder were talking about. I fail to see the logic in that, I agree that there can be SOME pressure when the tank is overfilled and the overflow is too small to carry all the overflow, but some of it will come out of the IN as well,
Have you ever seen air bags used to lift an overturned semi? They use air at less than 10 psi. The unit pressure doesn't increase but the amount of total force does.

Yes, i erred on the math but not totally on the force multiplication. More area, more force.
As for pressure being relieved through the fill pipe my example assumed that the fill was occluded by hose end and only the small vent was able to relieve pressure.
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