Several Black Tank Drain Plumbing Leaks - Page 2

Larry-NC · 05-09-2021, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeytheb

Every RV dealer should have the right glue for this job. I tried pvc glue, and special transition glue, none of it works.

I posted the Amazon link for ABS Cement further up. I used it on the Cherokee. It worked very well.

PoppySteve · 05-09-2021, 07:16 PM

Thanks for all the links. I had no idea what to call what I was looking for.

Still wondering about the gasket (or whatever) that goes on the valve hub. The piece that fits into the tank drain.

Larry-NC · 05-09-2021, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppySteve

Thanks for all the links. I had no idea what to call what I was looking for.

Still wondering about the gasket (or whatever) that goes on the valve hub. The piece that fits into the tank drain.

Poppy, that's covered.

Bruce (lifetime of experience as a master plumber) has identified a replacement piece ("No-Hub") that you need. He identified Ferguson as a source.

It's a nipple-shaped hard ABS piece that fits on the end of the elbow. You loosen the band on the rubber piece that comes out of the tank. Then you pull the old elbow out.

You cement the No-Hub onto the end of the new elbow, insert the elbow into the tank, and then tighten the band. Other than the rubber tube, there's no gasket involved.

There's a picture of the No-Hub in post #16. As you can see, you insert it into the rubber sleeve all the way up to the hub. Then you tighten the band below that ring on it, so it can't pull out. Tightening the band prevents leaks.

PoppySteve · 05-10-2021, 07:26 AM

OK, I've got it now. My internet connection was very spotty yesterday and I lost track of the conversation.

Thank you all very much!

mnoland30 · 05-10-2021, 07:55 AM

Half the battle with issues like this is knowing the name of the parts to ask for. My trailer is 12 years old with no leaks, so I'm wondering if it froze or if it hit something.

Larry-NC · 05-10-2021, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnoland30

Half the battle with issues like this is knowing the name of the parts to ask for. My trailer is 12 years old with no leaks, so I'm wondering if it froze or if it hit something.

Names...and the meanings.
It's common (though now politically incorrect) to refer to mating parts as male and female. (Come to think of it, "mating" is probably also politically incorrect.)

But in plumbing the terms are spigot and hub corresponding to male and female respectively. Who knew?

And the plumbing part that expands out to a flat surface clamped down through a series of holes? That's a flange! So the side part of a Valterra valve is either a spigot flange or a hub flange depending on the circumstance.

MarcGoldstone · 05-10-2021, 09:26 AM

I recomend Mr. Sticky's 2 part epoxy for all such repairs. It bonds to plastic though HDPE like is probably used on the holding tank itself is facilitated by using a small blow torch to flash the HDPE surface for best adhesion. Then build up the adhesive which will fully cure in 24 hours. It remains slightly flexible which is ideal in this application. If on vertical surfaces try some fiberglass material impregnated with Mr. Stickys and wrap around the area that's leaking. Of course drain the holding tank, clean and dry the area before applying the adhesive.

Larry-NC · 05-10-2021, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcGoldstone

I recomend Mr. Sticky's 2 part epoxy for all such repairs. It bonds to plastic though HDPE like is probably used on the holding tank itself is facilitated by using a small blow torch to flash the HDPE surface for best adhesion. Then build up the adhesive which will fully cure in 24 hours. It remains slightly flexible which is ideal in this application. If on vertical surfaces try some fiberglass material impregnated with Mr. Stickys and wrap around the area that's leaking. Of course drain the holding tank, clean and dry the area before applying the adhesive.

It's crazy to try to mend broken ABS plumbing with brittle epoxy. The elbow (because of it's bend) is where the stress concentrates when the tank and valve bounce going down the road. You might be able to get away with it on a permanently-sited RV, but I wouldn't even consider it in my brick residence.

Consider this: the elbow cracked and split due to flexing. You are now going to place a brittle epoxy across the surface where the crack is. What do you think will happen to that thin coating of expoy when the elbow flexes again?

Why would anyone consider such patches when the parts and cement to do a proper, inexpensive replacement are readily available on Amazon?

PoppySteve · 05-10-2021, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnoland30

Half the battle with issues like this is knowing the name of the parts to ask for. My trailer is 12 years old with no leaks, so I'm wondering if it froze or if it hit something.

You sure got that right.

The pipes did not hit anything. They are in a closed compartment and the only thing else I keep in that compartment is the waste hose.

I did not want to bring it up, but where I live in Texas we did go through that 5 below 0 event earlier this year. But I do know that my whole plumbing system was cleaned and dried after our last trip last October.

Larry-NC · 05-10-2021, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppySteve

You sure got that right.

The pipes did not hit anything. They are in a closed compartment and the only thing else I keep in that compartment is the waste hose.

I did not want to bring it up, but where I live in Texas we did go through that 5 below 0 event earlier this year. But I do know that my whole plumbing system was cleaned and dried after our last trip last October.

We winterize our trailer every fall, but we use it dry a few times during the winter, with gallon jugs of water, generally visiting the bathhouse for all of our needs.

I mistakenly thought that brushing my teeth and spitting a few ounces of water in the sink would leave a harmless puddle in the bottom of the tank. I didn't realize that the lowest point is not the tank; it's the valves and the plumbing that feeds them.

In my case it was the 1-1/2" gray tank plumbing. Two pipe segments froze and split lengthwise. I needed the hub flange for the valve, two regular elbows (not street ell), and a couple of pieces of pipe to replace the assembly.

Now I know better and connect the sewage tote all winter and leave the gray tank valve open.

PoppySteve · 05-10-2021, 12:41 PM

I have disconnected both the black and grey blade valves from the elbows and removed that center Y part.

I am trying to remove the existing black elbow and no hub adapter from the black tank drain opening. The tank drain opening is integral to the tank and is made of the same material.

I am having a heck of a time getting that no hub adapter out. There looks to be some black rubbery caulk that was applied to the no hub adapter before it was pressed into the tank drain opening. I have only been able to get about 1/4 inch of the hub adapter out. My big concern is that I may not be able to press the new hub adapter and elbow assembly back into the opening.

Even if I get that thing out, I am not sure what to use on the new hub adapter for a gasket.

Plus, the grey side flange that attaches to the grey blade valve with 4 bolts, one of the bolt holes is broken. So that piece likely needs to be replace.

Please see pics and advise.

Larry-NC · 05-10-2021, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppySteve

I have disconnected both the black and grey blade valves from the elbows and removed that center Y part.

I am trying to remove the existing black elbow and no hub adapter from the black tank drain opening. The tank drain opening is integral to the tank and is made of the same material.

I am having a heck of a time getting that no hub adapter out. There looks to be some black rubbery caulk that was applied to the no hub adapter before it was pressed into the tank drain opening. I have only been able to get about 1/4 inch of the hub adapter out. My big concern is that I may not be able to press the new hub adapter and elbow assembly back into the opening.

Even if I get that thing out, I am not sure what to use on the new hub adapter for a gasket.

Plus, the grey side flange that attaches to the grey blade valve with 4 bolts, one of the bolt holes is broken. So that piece likely needs to be replace.

Please see pics and advise.

You're getting there. Make SURE the clamp band is really loose. If you have a heat gun, you could try warming the area where the elbow enters the tank sleeve. That might soften the black gunk. Same thing on assembling the new one. Heat the sleeve to soften it a little before pressing the connector in. (I use this trick when putting new ends on garden hoses.)

No gasket is needed for this joint. Bruce might have a recommendation for a substance to put in the tank sleeve during reassembly. If it were mine, I might use Permatex #3 Non-Hardening which is black gunk used in automotive applications with water, oil, gasoline, and antifreeze. It comes in a bottle with a cotton swap and I would swab it around the inside of the sleeve before inserting the connector.

How much of the gray flange ear is broken off? if more than half is still there, and you feel confident reassembling it with a washer over the broken ear, you won't have any issues.

Which gray valve flange is broken: Y-side or tank side? Post a picture. It could be that all you need is the flange and a 1-1/2 coupling. You already have the cement.

PoppySteve · 05-10-2021, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

You're getting there. Make SURE the clamp band is really loose. If you have a heat gun, you could try warming the area where the elbow enters the tank sleeve. That might soften the black gunk. Same thing on assembling the new one. Heat the sleeve to soften it a little before pressing the connector in. (I use this trick when putting new ends on garden hoses.)

No gasket is needed for this joint. Bruce might have a recommendation for a substance to put in the tank sleeve during reassembly. If it were mine, I might use Permatex #3 Non-Hardening which is black gunk used in automotive applications with water, oil, gasoline, and antifreeze. It comes in a bottle with a cotton swap and I would swab it around the inside of the sleeve before inserting the connector.

How much of the gray flange ear is broken off? if more than half is still there, and you feel confident reassembling it with a washer over the broken ear, you won't have any issues.

Which gray valve flange is broken: Y-side or tank side? Post a picture. It could be that all you need is the flange and a 1-1/2 coupling. You already have the cement.

Sounds like a plan. Yes clamp is really loose. I have a heat gun and will try to warm it up. Permatex sounds good. There needs to be some type of sealant in there. I would be sunk if I did any damage to that tank drain opening.

Gray flange ear is on the Y side. Here is a pic. The missing ear is circled in yellow. I may try to just ABS cement it back on. Have not had any leaks in that area yet.

Thanks for your help.

Larry-NC · 05-10-2021, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppySteve

Sounds like a plan. Yes clamp is really loose. I have a heat gun and will try to warm it up. Permatex sounds good. There needs to be some type of sealant in there. I would be sunk if I did any damage to that tank drain opening.

Gray flange ear is on the Y side. Here is a pic. The missing ear is circled in yellow. I may try to just ABS cement it back on. Have not had any leaks in that area yet.

Thanks for your help.

Poppy, I guess it's all about nomenclature, but I would say that broken ear is on the TANK (upstream of the valve) side and not on the Y (downstream of the valve) side.

It looks like the parts are

1-1/2" Spigot flange
https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T100...0692251&sr=8-1

1-1/2" Street Ell
https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1-...D112/100346387
or
https://www.lowes.com/pd/NIBCO-1-1-2...itting/3434710
(My experience is that only the "A" stores stock ABS pipe and fittings.)

1-1/2" to 3" tank adapter
https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T104...s%2C248&sr=8-1

PoppySteve · 05-10-2021, 08:07 PM

Ok, I see. Thanks for the teaching.

Gill · 05-13-2021, 06:54 PM

Flex seal fixes that,, just scratch it up a little with wire brush first, then apply Flex Seal

PoppySteve · 05-13-2021, 07:45 PM

I am going to try to just patch the leak that is between the ell and the tank adapter first just for grins. I think it's just a joint leak and not a break in the fitting or pipe. The ABS cement may have failed during the cold weather.

Using the heat gun on the tank adapter works to get it out of the tank, so it's not too tough to get that adapter out if I go that route.

PoppySteve · 05-14-2021, 10:37 AM

Well I looked at that JB weld WaterWeld stuff yesterday and was not impressed. It's just a 2 part epoxy putty and I want to do more than just patch.

I am trying to find the parts needed for a proper repair. The links Bruce provided are what I need but that is a commercial supply store plus the prices are fairly high.

Here is a hub with o-ring
https://www.dyersonline.com/icon-was...shoppingengine

Here is a somewhat different style hub
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Nibco-I0...RoCu9gQAvD_BwE

It's hard to find a place to order all three pieces, hub, ell and flange.

Thomas ho · 05-14-2021, 11:03 AM

mobile home supply , most every town has one. plumbing supply business ,not home d.etc.

Larry-NC · 05-14-2021, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoppySteve

Well I looked at that JB weld WaterWeld stuff yesterday and was not impressed. It's just a 2 part epoxy putty and I want to do more than just patch.

I am trying to find the parts needed for a proper repair. The links Bruce provided are what I need but that is a commercial supply store plus the prices are fairly high.

Here is a hub with o-ring
https://www.dyersonline.com/icon-was...shoppingengine

Here is a somewhat different style hub
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Nibco-I0...RoCu9gQAvD_BwE

It's hard to find a place to order all three pieces, hub, ell and flange.

ABS used to be more widely used, but it seems to be getting displaced by PVC everywhere but RVs. Lowe's and Home Depot have tiers of stores. Only the "A" (biggest) stores have much ABS and that's not a lot. A couple of years ago I had to get some, and got what I needed from Amazon and Lowe's. That's why I gave you Amazon references. The hub was a little obscure.

{RANT}This is compounded by the fact that a lot of these jerky distributors think it's good business to only sell to tradespeople and won't do business with you. I've had my share of bad experiences with them.{/RANT}

One good distributor who will have everything you need is Ferguson Plumbing Supply. They have locations in Palestine, Rowlett, and McKinney, Texas. When you go there, ask for the City Desk. It will be at the side or back door. Don't go in the front door; that's the showroom. All that's there is $2000 bathtubs.

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