Shower Water Miser Letting Air into Water Lines

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Jpcarroll

I have a slightly different situation with the Shower Miser in my ePro 19FD. Mine is plumbed incorrectly. No matter which position the SM valve is in, I still get shower water. I thought the reason was because the SM return T'd in after the pump. I tried plumbing the return into the pump supply side thinking, when the SM valve was open, it would dump into the fresh tank when the pump was not in use, but feed thru the pump when it was on. Nope...no matter which positions the SM valve was in, it filled my fresh water tank...LoL. I plumbed it back to the T after the pump.

As Sarahcat said, it's useless as a "miser" since the hot water run is so short, it comes immediately. What I would like to use the SM for is filling the fresh water tank, but that doesn't work in the present setup.

As it is now, it's a winterizing nightmare to clear the SM return line. The first winter, before I knew of this problem, the SM elbow had water in it and froze and cracked. Had to replace it. That's when I discovered all this.

I need to get back in there and figure out where the improper loop-back is and shut it all up and remove the SM. It's hard to identify which water line is the SM return since it changes from braided white hose to blue Pex like the cold line and the two disappear behind panels under the tub (I can see thru a tiny access panel) and then run behind the bathroom sink/cabinet and behind more panels to the other side of the trailer. I've already had the tub/shower spigot off the wall and can see what's going on behind there. I'm going to have to remove some caulked panels to properly trace the lines.

BTW, during my checkout inspection at purchase, the dealer discovered the fresh water pump was not feeding any spigots in the trailer. It was looping back thru the water pump. They took a couple hours to "fix" it...I assume at the expense on the Shower Miser plumbing.

That's too bad. I believe a lot of dealers service dept don't have a clue on how to fix a lot things, especially something as relatively new as the factory installed Shower Miser.
We met the man who invented and designed the SM in Phoenix a few years ago. He had a booth at the CW tent during a NASCAR race. His trained crew installed ours and we absolutely love it. He had, at that time, just sold 50k units to FR for factory installation and was understandably excited about it.
I was the same as you, most pex runs from water heater to faucets are fairly short and I believed the SM would be a waste of time but for the price, we decided to try it as we mainly boondock and fresh water is always a limiting resource.
It is amazing how much water goes down the drain in a few seconds while getting that little bit of cold water out of the system and as you adjust to the correct temp.
We know where the shower knobs need to be for our individual temp preferences. Turn it on through the SM valve until the the indicator changes color and temp is correct. Then when taking navy showers, turn the valve to return water to tank again while you soap up, and water retains exact temp with no short spurt of colder water when you resume.
We used to use 90-100 gallons a week for two of us taking daily showers, dishes, toilet. Now with the SM we use 60-70 gallons a week.
We do have an on-demand water heater, so I think the SM benefits our setup a little more than a tank system.
My wife even uses the SM valve when at hookups so she has no temp surprises
Hope you get yours sorted out.

[Sarahcat]

I just wrote this message to Forest River support: “ There are no instructions in the online owners manual, the dealer cannot answer my questions, the instruction card that came with the travel trailer is vague and the position of the valve cannot be ascertained. The online documentation from the manufacturer does not depict this installation. This water miser has no actual value considering how the plumbing run is from the hot water heater, freshwater tank, and the pump.

I would appreciate an accurate procedure for normal water flow in the shower, from someone who knows how this shower was installed. This bathroom has a ‘tube spout’ with a shower divertor on the spout, as well as the water miser. The instructions refer to “rotating (the lever) up for normal flow” and down to use the water miser feature. That is incorrect and when the lever is rotated up, it appears to allow air into the system, rendering the shower non-functional. No matter which way the shower mister lever is set, the hot water mixes with the cold at the galley sink.

If possible, we would like to bypass and remove the shower miser since it adds no value in this trailer and not only wastes water, it causes the freshwater system to malfunction. This trailer has extremely short plumbing run to the shower and while the shower miser might have some value in your larger trailers, it only serves to frustrate your customers who own very small travel trailers.”

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Sarahcat

I just wrote this message to Forest River support: “ There are no instructions in the online owners manual, the dealer cannot answer my questions, the instruction card that came with the travel trailer is vague and the position of the valve cannot be ascertained. The online documentation from the manufacturer does not depict this installation. This water miser has no actual value considering how the plumbing run is from the hot water heater, freshwater tank, and the pump.

I would appreciate an accurate procedure for normal water flow in the shower, from someone who knows how this shower was installed. This bathroom has a ‘tube spout’ with a shower divertor on the spout, as well as the water miser. The instructions refer to “rotating (the lever) up for normal flow” and down to use the water miser feature. That is incorrect and when the lever is rotated up, it appears to allow air into the system, rendering the shower non-functional. No matter which way the shower mister lever is set, the hot water mixes with the cold at the galley sink.

If possible, we would like to bypass and remove the shower miser since it adds no value in this trailer and not only wastes water, it causes the freshwater system to malfunction. This trailer has extremely short plumbing run to the shower and while the shower miser might have some value in your larger trailers, it only serves to frustrate your customers who own very small travel trailers.”

Well, let us know how it turns out and if you get it working to your liking. I think you may have several problems, other than the Miser. Will be interesting to find out what the actual problem/fix is. Good luck!

[Sarahcat]

The PDF document attached is from Mark Akins at Forest River. It is far more clear that the previous instructions that I've seen on line and that were provided as a hanging tag in our shower. It appears that the Shower Miser lever can be mounted two different ways, but the Shower Miser feature is "Off" when the lever is fully vertical, either up or down and the feature is "On" when the lever is at a slight angle from horizontal, either toward the shower wall or away from the shower wall. I assumed that the lever can be installed either up or down, which explains some of the contradictory operating information.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Sarahcat

The PDF document attached is from Mark Akins at Forest River. It is far more clear that the previous instructions that I've seen on line and that were provided as a hanging tag in our shower. It appears that the Shower Miser lever can be mounted two different ways, but the Shower Miser feature is "Off" when the lever is fully vertical, either up or down and the feature is "On" when the lever is at a slight angle from horizontal, either toward the shower wall or away from the shower wall. I assumed that the lever can be installed either up or down, which explains some of the contradictory operating information.

You should be able to easily tell if it is on or off by just trying it. Only two settings. Direction just depends on who installed it and where. I would think they will all be different depending on RV model and type of shower/bath.

[NJKris]

Wildcat, when you have the shower miser activated, do you still get a decent trickle of water from the faucet? I've been using you technique of using the shower miser to put water in the fresh tank, and have noticed two things: The trickle, and it fills fresh tank painfully slow. The trickle does not seem like a lot, but once I didn't want water in the grey tank, so I caught it in a bowl. I estimate from emptying that bowl that the trickle amounted to at least 2 gallons, while filling the fresh tank only half full.

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

That's too bad. I believe a lot of dealers service dept don't have a clue on how to fix a lot things, especially something as relatively new as the factory installed Shower Miser.
We met the man who invented and designed the SM in Phoenix a few years ago. He had a booth at the CW tent during a NASCAR race. His trained crew installed ours and we absolutely love it. He had, at that time, just sold 50k units to FR for factory installation and was understandably excited about it.
I was the same as you, most pex runs from water heater to faucets are fairly short and I believed the SM would be a waste of time but for the price, we decided to try it as we mainly boondock and fresh water is always a limiting resource.
It is amazing how much water goes down the drain in a few seconds while getting that little bit of cold water out of the system and as you adjust to the correct temp.
We know where the shower knobs need to be for our individual temp preferences. Turn it on through the SM valve until the the indicator changes color and temp is correct. Then when taking navy showers, turn the valve to return water to tank again while you soap up, and water retains exact temp with no short spurt of colder water when you resume.
We used to use 90-100 gallons a week for two of us taking daily showers, dishes, toilet. Now with the SM we use 60-70 gallons a week.
We do have an on-demand water heater, so I think the SM benefits our setup a little more than a tank system.
My wife even uses the SM valve when at hookups so she has no temp surprises
Hope you get yours sorted out.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by NJKris

Wildcat, when you have the shower miser activated, do you still get a decent trickle of water from the faucet? I've been using you technique of using the shower miser to put water in the fresh tank, and have noticed two things: The trickle, and it fills fresh tank painfully slow. The trickle does not seem like a lot, but once I didn't want water in the grey tank, so I caught it in a bowl. I estimate from emptying that bowl that the trickle amounted to at least 2 gallons, while filling the fresh tank only half full.

No trickle from mine. Your shower diverter must not be seating correctly. I always replace all my faucets when I first get my RV to avoid the problems with OEM faucets.
And yes, it does fill slowly as the flow is restricted by the faucet and shower diverter. So I just find something else to do while it fills. But mine fills slowly even from the gravity feed.

[Sarahcat]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

You should be able to easily tell if it is on or off by just trying it. Only two settings. Direction just depends on who installed it and where. I would think they will all be different depending on RV model and type of shower/bath.

Thanks! You are correct, however, having it in the wrong position, based upon the instructions, seems to have introduced so much air into the system, it did not work in either direction. Unfortunately, until I requested the specifics from FR, I had no way of knowing what went wrong. The page they sent was specific to my TT mode, but was not part of the online User Manual or the manufacturer documentation. I think my Shower Miser is not defective and as long as it's turned off, I should not have this problem in the future.

We're practicing for our solar safari to the total solar eclipse of 2024 a few hours south of us and we will most likely be dry camping for a couple of days and can't afford to waste fresh water or capacity of the gray tank.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Sarahcat

Thanks! You are correct, however, having it in the wrong position, based upon the instructions, seems to have introduced so much air into the system, it did not work in either direction. Unfortunately, until I requested the specifics from FR, I had no way of knowing what went wrong. The page they sent was specific to my TT mode, but was not part of the online User Manual or the manufacturer documentation. I think my Shower Miser is not defective and as long as it's turned off, I should not have this problem in the future.

We're practicing for our solar safari to the total solar eclipse of 2024 a few hours south of us and we will most likely be dry camping for a couple of days and can't afford to waste fresh water or capacity of the gray tank.

Glad you got some instructions that helped. I'm sure once you get the hang of it, you will appreciate it's advantages.
I have found that many products that are new or different come with a learning curve. Sidewinder hitches, on-demand water heaters, and Shower Misers come to mind. Once you have the patience and correct instructions to get past it, the products are usually well worth it.
Good luck on your upcoming trip preparations and Happy RVing!

[youroo]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Glad you got some instructions that helped. I'm sure once you get the hang of it, you will appreciate it's advantages.
I have found that many products that are new or different come with a learning curve. Sidewinder hitches, on-demand water heaters, and Shower Misers come to mind. Once you have the patience and correct instructions to get past it, the products are usually well worth it.
Good luck on your upcoming trip preparations and Happy RVing!

Agree and add "Hennsly Hitches and Lippert One Touch leveling systems" to the Learning Curve! Youroo!