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02-16-2020, 03:08 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,330
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Holding tank sensors work on the principle of "water" completing the circuit between electrical contacts at different heights in the tank. As more contacts are shorted by water the higher the lights climb on the "tree"
Problem is, all it takes is moisture, not a standing liquid level, to short the contacts together.
When dropping the contents of the toilet bowl into an empty tank it splashes and that's all it takes to wet the contacts which yields a false reading. After the morning round of people using the bathroom you might see the tank suddenly be half or more full. Then you check it in the afternoon and it might show empty.
Yes, it's possible that the dreaded pile of poop and paper has formed but that's easy to diagnose. Turn off water supply, open toilet valve, shine flashlight into hole, and if you see a pile of poop sitting high and dry, time to fill tank a few times, drain, then flush. Rinse/Repeat until a visual inspection shows a bare tank floor when drained.
Keeping valve closed allows liquid to accumulate and allow the tank to function more like a porta-potty where whatever you drop in gets to spread out.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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02-16-2020, 03:49 PM
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#22
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,269
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I use Unique's RV-Digest-It, but RID-X is also good.
Use warm, not hot, water to fill the black tank through the toilet. That will get the enzymes and bacteria working faster and let it stew for at LEAST overnight before you dump it.
72 hours is best, but if you are in your spot, and need to use the john (and not the wash house) you will need to do this several times.
Hopefully the valve is not clogged and all will be well.
Let us know how it goes.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-16-2020, 04:14 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,330
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Something else that just popped into mind, if one is at a full hookup site and has left the black tank valve open (for whatever the reason) why not regularly flush the tank? Whether it's hooking up the built in flush system to the city water and letting it run 15 minutes or so, or just filling buckets of water and dumping through the open toilet valve, regular flushing will certainly help keep things from piling up. Do it regularly before the "Pile" has had an opportunity to become more solid as moisture drains out.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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02-16-2020, 04:58 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maurice, LA
Posts: 4,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dan
My black tank level goes up when I stay at an RV park because I use the toilet. Do you not use the toilet? What am I missing?
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You are missing that he left all his tank valves "Open".
__________________
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL, Gladiator Qr35 ST235/85R16 Load rating G, TST 507 TPMS w/ Flow-thru Sensors & Repeater, Reese Sidewinder 16K Pin Box, PI EMS HW50C
2009 Chevy Silverado 2500HD CCSB LTZ Diesel, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Turbo Brake activated, 39 gal Aux Tank W/ Fuel Pump transfer, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 air bags.
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02-16-2020, 05:02 PM
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#25
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Grayson County, Texas
Posts: 21,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasReid
You are missing that he left all his tank valves "Open".
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Yes, I acknowledged that in post # 10 yesterday.
__________________
2015 FR Wildcat 295RSX / GMC Sierra
Nights Camped: '13 = 49/'14 = 74/'15 = 74/'16 = 85/'17 = 110/'18 = 111/'19 = 86/'20 =108/'21 = 115/'22 = 135/'23 = 78; Booked for 2024 = 69
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02-16-2020, 05:03 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maurice, LA
Posts: 4,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dan
Yes, I ackn owledged that in post # 10 yesterday.
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Then I guess we Both missed something, didn't we?
__________________
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL, Gladiator Qr35 ST235/85R16 Load rating G, TST 507 TPMS w/ Flow-thru Sensors & Repeater, Reese Sidewinder 16K Pin Box, PI EMS HW50C
2009 Chevy Silverado 2500HD CCSB LTZ Diesel, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Turbo Brake activated, 39 gal Aux Tank W/ Fuel Pump transfer, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 air bags.
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02-16-2020, 05:05 PM
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#27
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Grayson County, Texas
Posts: 21,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasReid
Then I guess we Both missed something, didn't we?
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Missing stuff is getting easier and easier for this old man!
__________________
2015 FR Wildcat 295RSX / GMC Sierra
Nights Camped: '13 = 49/'14 = 74/'15 = 74/'16 = 85/'17 = 110/'18 = 111/'19 = 86/'20 =108/'21 = 115/'22 = 135/'23 = 78; Booked for 2024 = 69
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02-16-2020, 05:11 PM
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#28
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike
Do it regularly before the "Pile" has had an opportunity to become more solid as moisture drains out.
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What you are missing is that there needs to be water in the tank so solids make a "soft landing" in the water and tend to float; not contacting the bottom of the tank (at least without a fresh coating of water so it does not stick).
Without water, the solids just plop and stick to the bottom of the tank. They immediately start to dry out from the top down, making them almost impossible to get moving again. Over time they will create a pile at the bottom of the down pipe and either block the down pipe exit or slide "en mass" when you add water later and block the outlet dump valve. Both are very bad outcomes.
Adding water later, tries to work on the dry surface and the wet sticky bottom does not want to move easily. Cleaning the tank is almost impossible unless you use a bio-digester and a LOT of time for it to work.
After dumping the black tank, I always close the valve and leave the turboflush run for about 10 seconds to add a few gallons of water so it is there for that "first use". That has prevented any black tank issues over the years.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-16-2020, 05:47 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Full-time USA
Posts: 123
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I would just add that the way I make sure the tank is full of water is to use 2 gallon jugs of water. I place the full jugs on the floor to hold the pedal open. Don't leave the toilet unattended and wait for the water to start coming up into the bowl. Then stop the flow and go outside and dump. This saves you from running back and forth. Big thing is don't start doing anything else while you are filling the tank. When it comes to tanks the saying is, water,water is your friend. Also, always empty black tank first and then the grey. The grey water helps to flush out the hose.
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02-16-2020, 06:16 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,371
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Tank
Others hit all the suggestions to prevent. I have had great luck w/ Tanktechrx when removing a clog or mainly clean the sensors. Put in and leave it for several days, then a lot of water w/ Happy Camper. I usually leave about 5 gallons in my tank w/ Happy Camper or Tanktechrx. Keeps the sensors working for a while. We use Angel Soft as it seems to break down as fast as the camper stuff.
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02-16-2020, 06:55 PM
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#31
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 79
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I've had my trailer for 5 years. Always careful with the valves, rinsing tanks, using tank cleaning tablets. Both black and grey show full all the time. Typically we keep black tank valve closed for 4-5 days, and leave grey open until 2 days before opening the black. Both sets of lights constantly show full. We've just gone to emptying on a schedule. You can tell when either tank is full just by the sound of it.
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02-17-2020, 10:36 AM
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#32
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest Alabama
Posts: 9,850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769
What you are missing is that there needs to be water in the tank so solids make a "soft landing" in the water and tend to float; not contacting the bottom of the tank (at least without a fresh coating of water so it does not stick).
Without water, the solids just plop and stick to the bottom of the tank. They immediately start to dry out from the top down, making them almost impossible to get moving again. Over time they will create a pile at the bottom of the down pipe and either block the down pipe exit or slide "en mass" when you add water later and block the outlet dump valve. Both are very bad outcomes.
Adding water later, tries to work on the dry surface and the wet sticky bottom does not want to move easily. Cleaning the tank is almost impossible unless you use a bio-digester and a LOT of time for it to work.
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I really wish we had a like button. This is an excellent explanation of what happens.
__________________
Salem 29RKSS Pushing a GMC Sierra 2500HD!
Gotta go campin!
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02-17-2020, 12:06 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY Capital District
Posts: 429
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If you don't have a black tank flush built into your trailer buy a Cleaning Wand. I use one even though I have a black flush because it does a better job at cleaning off the sensors. Just make sure which ever you use that your black tank valve is opened. So you don't overfill your tank and have a bigger mess.
As for adding chemicals don't use chemicals that could hurt your tank like Rid-X. I will be buying Happy Camper myself this spring.
Below is a link to a wand you can also find at Walmart.
https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-A01-...1959024&sr=8-3
Good luck
__________________
2017 Forest River Surveyor 251rks
2022 Chevy 3500HD High Country
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02-17-2020, 12:30 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 6,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyRoads
If you don't have a black tank flush built into your trailer buy a Cleaning Wand. I use one even though I have a black flush because it does a better job at cleaning off the sensors. Just make sure which ever you use that your black tank valve is opened. So you don't overfill your tank and have a bigger mess.
As for adding chemicals don't use chemicals that could hurt your tank like Rid-X. I will be buying Happy Camper myself this spring.
Below is a link to a wand you can also find at Walmart.
https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-A01-...1959024&sr=8-3
Good luck
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RIX-X is not a chemical. It's 100% powdered bacteria/enzymes. Additionally, it's 1/3 the price of Happy Camper! They slap that word "camper" on it in order to charge you more. You can even find a house brand of RID-X in Walmart for $5:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Val...ll&athena=true
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
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02-17-2020, 12:36 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Pincher Creek, AB
Posts: 848
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Not quite the same but a similar situation happened to a friend of mine who was using his 5'er in colder temps (-15C) and ran out of RV paper, so he used household paper. When he went to drain it, he found something had frozen (valve or tank) and he had a mess to deal with. When he got home, he wound up draining his hot tub into the black tank a couple of times, and draining it to thaw and flush that mess out. He was shocked that the trailer wasn't keeping his drain tanks insulated to those temps. I laughed and said his $1,000 propane bill shoulda been a clue. Then told him there is a reason they make RV paper.
__________________
Camped: 2023 (Days/Nights) - 34/27
2022 (D/N) - 41/33, 2021 (D/N) - 37/29, 2020 (D/N): 58/49, 2019 (D/N):27/20
TT: 2020 26' Hemisphere 26BHHL
TV: 2020 GMC 2500HD 4x4
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02-17-2020, 12:48 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 1,140
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When I get ready to break my campsite, and all my tanks are flushed and empty, I follow this routine:
I add a couple gallons of water to each Grey tank along with a few tablespoons of Dawn dishwashing liquid.
I add three to five gallons of water to my black tank with a cup of Pinesol and 1/4 cup of Dawn.
This mix sloshes around on my travel to my home, or my next campsite. It seems to keep my sensors clean, definitely keeps the tanks clean. It also seems to help lubricate the dump gate valves on each tank and makes them easier to operate.
If you have a recurring problem with excess paper clogging your dump (I use a clear 45 elbow to see) you might try what many boat owners do and deposit all your toilet paper into a plastic bag or container.
__________________
2016 F350 CC Dually Powerstroke 4x4
2014 Cedar Creek 34RLSA w/Level Up
2007 HD Ultra Classic 103
USS Pyro AE-24 WestPac MM2 '71-'75
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02-17-2020, 02:30 PM
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#37
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyRoads
As for adding chemicals don't use chemicals that could hurt your tank like Rid-X. I will be buying Happy Camper myself this spring.
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Neither RV-Digest-It nor RID-X contain "harmful chemicals" regarding tank damage. They have enzymes and live bacteria cultures which just eat poop.
The tanks are plastic and can easily handle REALLY harsh chemicals that will dissolve metal tanks!
Now you don't want to use Formaldehyde based "de-smellers", for example, (which is what you are probably thinking of) because many campgrounds and older homes use sanitary fields to treat black water. Formaldehyde will kill the bacteria you need for those septic systems to work.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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02-17-2020, 03:37 PM
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#38
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
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I know this is an old post and the OP has probably resolved the issue with the clean out, but thought to share my experience with this issue in case someone else comes along with the same problem. After finding the same thing happening with mine, I researched and figured out that with the tank open for sewer direct flushing, not all... material... leaves the tank with the flush this way. It makes sense when it’s thought about. You would need far more water to truly clean it out than is used in a flush. So, the solid waste remains, then dries... and sticks to the sensors inside resulting in a 2/3 full reading.
As others have stated, closing the valve and filling the tank, adding a cleaner and then flushing the tank will get the sensor right again. After a good night or two of a filled tank soak of course... to loosen things from where it’s stuck. Now I leave the valve closed and flush like I should instead of allowing myself to be lazy and trying to pretend it works like a house septic system should.
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02-17-2020, 03:43 PM
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#39
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cah341
I know this is an old post and the OP has probably resolved the issue with the clean out.
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Actually this thread is only one day old.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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02-17-2020, 04:13 PM
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#40
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,269
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On the matter of incorrectly reading tank quantity indicators, please watch this video. TP and Solids DO NOT make them inaccurate. Slime on the walls makes a current path that does it.
While this is an ad for Horst Miracle Probes (long out of business and the patent sold to Valterra who sells them on Amazon if you are interested), It explains WHY they become inaccurate.
BTW, I HIGHLY recommend these probes if you continually have indicator issues.
https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T213...11863469&psc=1
Herk
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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