To blow out or not to blow out, that is the question

[emm-dee]

As several have said the anti freeze or air methods provide adequate protection if done correctly. I’ve used the air method for years with no problems noted. Additionally I put reflectors with 100 watt incandescent bulbs in the two outside compartments that have water lines in them. Inside, I open all cabinet doors and put two ceramic heaters set to come on at 50 degrees.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Just tossing this in. Since 2007.....drained low points, isolated Water Heater, flushed with antifreeze. Never froze or cracked a line or fitting.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by CamperDougie

I have heard you can not get ALL the water out of the toilet valve with air. a couple of drops could run back to the valve and freeze and crack valve. I do as told above but I poor antifreeze into the flush holes around top of bowl. Just a simple precaution.

If one runs compressed air through the system (including the toilet flush valve) long enough there will be no water in the line. Might take more than just a quick step on the pedal to purge water but the compressed air WILL take out all water.

[jeff64]

If 98% of the water is out, then there is room for the water to expand into when it freezes, since that is what you desire to prevent. .. Expansion in a closed space. Shouldn't be any reason you couldn't just blow out the lines. I put the AF in because for $12 it's not worth it . Just my 2 cents

[High Country Duramax]

Blow out is probably 95% effective, antifreeze is 100%

[TTnewbie]

Well guys, I got the surprise of a life time today when I went to winterize my trailer. I started by unscrewing the anode rode and wholly ****, an explosion of water burst from the side of the trailer. The rod hit my stomach and the water shot out about 20 feet away. I was drenched. My daughter who came to help me was drenched too. I had a hoody on and had to take it off. It looked like I pissed my pants too. The worst part of all of this is that I had my cell phone in the front pocket of the hoody. The rod hit me when it shot out and cracked the screen on my cell phone. A ton of water drained out of the trailer. Things got worse after that because I forgot the connection for the air compressor. I cleaned things up an called it a day. I will go back this week to finish the job. I will post some questions I have later on.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by High Country Duramax

Blow out is probably 95% effective, antifreeze is 100%

When I'm done blowing my system out good luck finding any of that 5%. I learned long ago how to use compressed air to winterize water systems by winterizing sprinkler systems.

Like I have said many times, use the method you like.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by TTnewbie

Well guys, I got the surprise of a life time today when I went to winterize my trailer. I started by unscrewing the anode rode and wholly ****, an explosion of water burst from the side of the trailer. The rod hit my stomach and the water shot out about 20 feet away. I was drenched. My daughter who came to help me was drenched too. I had a hoody on and had to take it off. It looked like I pissed my pants too. The worst part of all of this is that I had my cell phone in the front pocket of the hoody. The rod hit me when it shot out and cracked the screen on my cell phone. A ton of water drained out of the trailer. Things got worse after that because I forgot the connection for the air compressor. I cleaned things up an called it a day. I will go back this week to finish the job. I will post some questions I have later on.

Two rules to follow when removing anode rod.

1. Don't start unless you've opened a faucet inside to make sure you have no pressure and do so with at the heater isolation valves in normal position. Make draining the water heater the FIRST thing you do.

2. Never stand in front of the anode rod head as you remove it------even if you KNOW there's no pressure.

But you know this now


Glad you weren't seriously hurt

Also a good thing you aren't taller or you probably wouldn't be telling this story to us until the serious pain subsided, if you know what I mean

[NXR]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

My opinion, if you have emptied your tanks and there isn't enough residual water to completely or nearly completely fill the drain pipes, adding anti-freeze to the tank is unnecessary. A minimal amount of liquid at the dump valves won't be enough to cause a problem. A full pipe can freeze and split the pipe.

You do need to put a substantial dump of anti-freeze down the drains to fill the traps though.

After I blew the lines out I dumped both tanks. Then I pumped antifreeze through. I'm sure I got some antifreeze from flushing the toilets a few times into the black tank.

I know I got some antifreeze into gray from running the three sinks and doing a winterization on the Splendide washer/dryer by pumping it through the lines into the Splendide but now 'm wondering if I should buy one more gallon and pour a third into each sink. I did have about 1/4 gallon left of the six gallons I needed and I poured it into each sink drain but yeah, one more gallon might not be a bad idea.

Thanks for the thought,

Ray

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by stsimmer

.
There is nothing wrong with the anti-freeze method, but it takes 5-7 gallons and has to be flushed out in the spring.

I have a 42' fifth wheel with 2 bathrooms and an outdoor kitchen. 3 gallons is more than enough.

Flushing it out in the spring is literally as simple as hooking up the water and running each faucet until its clear.

[moose074]

For several years I just open all my faucets and the low point drain and call it good. I learned along time ago that when water turns to ice it expands in the direction of least resistance. It only expands around 10% if I remember correctly from my science project. So in theory you would have to leave 90% of water in a given space or line to worry about it freezing enough to break. When I bought my last 5th wheel I started to blowout the lines after reading this forum, I had all the equipment and all the stories scared me so I blew out the lines. Last year I wasn’t able to blow out ( lie I didn’t on my last trip because I thought I would go again before it got cold) I went to my storage pulled plug on my hot water heater night before the big freeze. I always open my low drain valves when leaving on the day or on last stop before the house. Not a single thing broke from being froze and trust me it would have been cold enough
As to anti freeze I learned in Alaska that straight anti freeze will freeze solid. I had a leak in my water pump and left a gallon of straight antifreeze in bed of truck until I could afford the pump. I went to refill on morning and it was solid as could be.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by moose074

As to anti freeze I learned in Alaska that straight anti freeze will freeze solid. I had a leak in my water pump and left a gallon of straight antifreeze in bed of truck until I could afford the pump. I went to refill on morning and it was solid as could be.

Yes, if it gets cold enough AF will freeze. But unlike water, it doesn't expand when it does.

[jogle31]

I previously full flushed with antifreeze but this year blew the lines out including low point drains. Seemed to work pretty well but while blowing out the shower lines I could hear water bubbling behind the shower wall. Any ideas on getting this last bit of water out?

2019 21FBRS Microlite

2015 26 Superlite

2013 21FBRS Microlight

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by jogle31

I previously full flushed with antifreeze but this year blew the lines out including low point drains. Seemed to work pretty well but while blowing out the shower lines I could hear water bubbling behind the shower wall. Any ideas on getting this last bit of water out?

2019 21FBRS Microlite

2015 26 Superlite

2013 21FBRS Microlight

Use antifreeze.

[Cowracer]

I blow out. I have a long term hatred of using the 'pink stuff' and ONLY put it in my p-traps. Some people think blowing out is the wrong way because you cant get all the water out of the system.

The goal is not to "get all the water out". you would be there forever. Water can safely freeze in a pipe as long as it has 5 pipe-diameters on either side of it or air-space (10 if at a single-ended point like a valve).

if you have a 1/2" pipe that has a low point, it can be full of water as long as it has 2-1/2" of air space on either side so that it has expansion room.

Look at it this way, fill a bottle halfway with water. Cap it and freeze it. It won't shatter because there is adequate air space for it to expand into. Like your water lines it ONLY becomes an issue if it is completely full with no expansion room.

Blowing out is cheap, easy, quick and effective. I have 20+ years of doing it this way without any issues at all, and no nasty chemicals in my water lines.

Tim

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

I blow out. I have a long term hatred of using the 'pink stuff' and ONLY put it in my p-traps. Some people think blowing out is the wrong way because you cant get all the water out of the system.

The goal is not to "get all the water out". you would be there forever. Water can safely freeze in a pipe as long as it has 5 pipe-diameters on either side of it or air-space (10 if at a single-ended point like a valve).

if you have a 1/2" pipe that has a low point, it can be full of water as long as it has 2-1/2" of air space on either side so that it has expansion room.

Look at it this way, fill a bottle halfway with water. Cap it and freeze it. It won't shatter because there is adequate air space for it to expand into. Like your water lines it ONLY becomes an issue if it is completely full with no expansion room.

Blowing out is cheap, easy, quick and effective. I have 20+ years of doing it this way without any issues at all, and no nasty chemicals in my water lines.

Tim

It's not the little bit of water left in a pipe that is the issue.
It is the little bit of water left in a pipe that trickles down to a valve or connector or the few drops left in the toilet bowl rim that trickles back to the toilet valve that causes issues.

Antifreeze eliminates that possibility.
After blowing out, I only need to use 2 gallons of antifreeze in my 36' 5th wheel to get full strength pink tuff at EVERY faucet/valve. Yep... you read that right, the ENTIRE water supply system only holds 2 gallons! At $3.98 per gallon, I wouldn't call that expensive insurance.

R/V antifreeze does not contain 'nasty' chemicals. It is manufactured explicitly for putting into potable plumbing systems and is non- poisonous.

But as we always say here... do what you want. You aren't going to change my 50 year process of no issues either.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by 5picker

It's not the little bit of water left in a pipe that is the issue.
It is the little bit of water left in a pipe that trickles down to a valve or connector or the few drops left in the toilet bowl rim that trickles back to the toilet valve that causes issues.

Antifreeze eliminates that possibility.
After blowing out, I only need to use 2 gallons of antifreeze in my 36' 5th wheel to get full strength pink tuff at EVERY faucet/valve. Yep... you read that right, the ENTIRE water supply system only holds 2 gallons! At $3.98 per gallon, I wouldn't call that expensive insurance.

R/V antifreeze does not contain 'nasty' chemicals. It is manufactured explicitly for putting into potable plumbing systems and is non- poisonous.

But as we always say here... do what you want. You aren't going to change my 50 year process of no issues either.

Yes, I know this. But nasty does not simply mean toxic. As far as I know, braunschweiger is not toxic, but it sure is nasty.

My first ever RV's prior owner thought winterizing meant filling the fresh water tank up with 20 gallons of pink stuff and then pumping thru all the pipes, including the water heater. No matter how many times I flushed and sanitized the tanks and lines, there was always a chemical aftertaste in the water. It reacted poorly with some compound that is in coffee as it made coffee from the freshwater system undrinkable.

But like you said.... to each his own. As long as people understand there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Tim

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

My first ever RV's prior owner thought winterizing meant filling the fresh water tank up with 20 gallons of pink stuff and then pumping thru all the pipes, including the water heater. No matter how many times I flushed and sanitized the tanks and lines, there was always a chemical aftertaste in the water.

Thanks for the explanation. As I'm sure you know, antifreeze normally should not be put in the fresh tank nor should it ever be put in the water heater. When you do things wrong, things turn out wrong.

I just read of someone else pouring gallons of antifreeze into their fresh tank and pumping it through the lines because they did not have a winterization line on the pump inlet. It works (and actually is the Dometic-recommended method for their 310 toilet!) but can have unintended consequences.

As 5Picker mentioned, I don't want a busted Dometic pedal toilet flush valve and they are infamous for that when even a tiny bit of water is in the valve. Dometic even puts a "freeze indicator" in their valve, per the attached pic.

If I were just using air, I would perform the additional steps in the alternate method from Dometic:

Winterization and storage Dometic Model 310 Toilet

Drain Water from Toilet
1. Turn off water supply to toilet.
2. Remove water supply line from water valve.
3. Place a small container under water valve inlet to catch draining water.
4. Press flush pedal and allow water to completely drain from water valve and vacuum breaker.
5. Leave water line disconnected until threat of freezing temperature is past.

FWIW,

Ray

[emm-dee]

A heater or 2 placed inside the RV and set to come on at 50 degrees or so will prevent freezing in the toilet. I have remote temperature sensors in the center of the living area and in each “wet” bay. I can read the temperatures in all three areas while having coffee in the house. Lowest outside temp last winter was 18 degrees…lowest RV temp was 39.

Problem to come is where to get 100 watt incandescent bulbs for the wet bays in the future. I only have four spares now.

[MichaelW]

Originally Posted by John Hendrick

I have been blowing out the lines for years without any real problem. The only place I use the anti-freeze is in the traps, using about one gallon total in five traps. I also take the filter bowl off my water pump as I had it crack one year from residual water.

[emoji106]