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Old 12-08-2020, 03:58 PM   #1
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Valve handles installed upside down

Looking at pictures of bypass valves, I often wonder,
WHY CANT THE MANUFACTURE PUT THE VALVES ON WITH THE VALVE ON TOP. DON'T THEY REALIZE THAT THE VALVE CAN BE PUT ON EITHER WAY.

THE RIGHT WAY or AS THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO CHOOSE THE WRONG WAY.
Nothing major but just bugs the crap outta me. Seems they just don't care.

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Old 12-08-2020, 04:54 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by campers302 View Post
Looking at pictures of bypass valves, I often wonder,
WHY CANT THE MANUFACTURE PUT THE VALVES ON WITH THE VALVE ON TOP. DON'T THEY REALIZE THAT THE VALVE CAN BE PUT ON EITHER WAY.

THE RIGHT WAY or AS THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO CHOOSE THE WRONG WAY.
Nothing major but just bugs the crap outta me. Seems they just don't care.

The guy installing that is making minimum wage + tips. He isn't thinking about how it is used at all.
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Old 12-08-2020, 05:47 PM   #3
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The guy installing that is making minimum wage + tips. He isn't thinking about how it is used at all.

Not busting on your reason but thats BS. Where is the supervision.
Tired of the same lame excuse, dont get paid to think, thats how they make them now a days, $50,000 for crap ars work.



Just sayin, Darn I feel better.


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Old 12-08-2020, 07:20 PM   #4
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Not busting on your reason but thats BS. Where is the supervision.
Tired of the same lame excuse, dont get paid to think, thats how they make them now a days, $50,000 for crap ars work.



Just sayin, Darn I feel better.



I 100% agree!
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:32 PM   #5
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I 100% agree!
Agree as well they're paid to do a job. You could say that about fast food workers and many others so how long do you think they'd stay employed or a company would stay in business.
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:11 PM   #6
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The guy installing that is making minimum wage + tips. He isn't thinking about how it is used at all.

I seem to recall that the assembly plants usually work on a X number of units processed a day basis. If we get our 10-15 whatever slapped together by noon, we go home. It may have changed some do to the overwhelming demand but I'll bet it's still driven by total production per day.

My .02 cents for this subject.
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:31 PM   #7
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I've managed people in difficult workforce conditions for most of my life and I can say with honesty, if clear expectations are set for the people you manage, they are treated as a valuable team member and they are allowed to do their jobs and are rewarded for meeting goals (quality goals) the team will run itself. Slackers won't last. They workers will drive them out. And all you will get is a quality product. Starts at the top.
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by campers302 View Post
Looking at pictures of bypass valves, I often wonder,
WHY CANT THE MANUFACTURE PUT THE VALVES ON WITH THE VALVE ON TOP. DON'T THEY REALIZE THAT THE VALVE CAN BE PUT ON EITHER WAY.

THE RIGHT WAY or AS THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO CHOOSE THE WRONG WAY.
Nothing major but just bugs the crap outta me. Seems they just don't care.

On my Cedar Creek the bypass valves in the wet bay are installed correctly.
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:11 PM   #9
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The guy installing that is making minimum wage + tips. He isn't thinking about how it is used at all.
Apparently most of the installation/construction people are paid by the "piece".

I install 12 valves per hour I get more money. I install 6 valves per hour I get less money.

What's my incentive to do it correctly or by any known convention? My boss wants quantity not quality. And this shows up in out units.

Now it is up to luck if that component is critical to the operation of our RV. Or is just an inconvenience I have to fix with some glue!

RV There yet:-)
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by campers302 View Post
Not busting on your reason but thats BS. Where is the supervision.
Tired of the same lame excuse, dont get paid to think, thats how they make them now a days, $50,000 for crap ars work.



Just sayin, Darn I feel better.


True story ;-)
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:39 PM   #11
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I've managed people in difficult workforce conditions for most of my life and I can say with honesty, if clear expectations are set for the people you manage, they are treated as a valuable team member and they are allowed to do their jobs and are rewarded for meeting goals (quality goals) the team will run itself. Slackers won't last. They workers will drive them out. And all you will get is a quality product. Starts at the top.
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Old 12-09-2020, 05:27 PM   #12
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As a pipefitter we NEVER install any type of valve upside down.
Handle should be horizontal stem or above.
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Old 12-09-2020, 06:38 PM   #13
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As a former Army team leader in a combat role I can tell you that if the NCOs don’t give a crap then neither will the privates. This is a basic management issue. Train to standards, set expectations, coach the willing, promote the rockstars and muster out the rest.
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Old 12-09-2020, 06:39 PM   #14
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I love all the above answers. So I am not crazy after all. It says a lot about a company when they do not pay attention to the small details, can only mean, as we have seen, they also do not pay attention to the larger details.

We have been camping for over 45 years and have done it all. Tent, Popup, small camper, larger camper and a fabulous 5th wheel. Our 5th wheel was a NUWA and it was impeccable. So much attention to detail all the way through down to the mitered joints in the trim molding in the unit. I guess as a result of doing things right the company is no longer around. The penalty for doing thing right the first time.

We were thinking about a Class A or C. While looking at class C it came to our attention through the forums that you can expect to make changes to the chassis, suspension, and much more at your own expense. This is not acceptable so we will not be putting out $80000.00 for a Class C and then spend another $10,000.00 on modifications to make drive and handle as should from the factory. I don't mean to offend anyone but you have to be crazy to accept this.
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Old 12-09-2020, 06:57 PM   #15
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I come from an engineering background, so I appreciate quality and attention to detail. With that said, I have learned a lot about the manufacturing process of RV's at this site over the past month and have a better understanding of the industry as a whole. I could be off the mark, but here is my .02:

The universe of RV buyers are often older, many are retired, and they don't have a ton of money to drop on a new rig. RV companies appear to have filled this niche by providing relatively cost vehicles (sub $100K new) to fill it. It's a lot of money, but when you compare it to the cost of a car, they are actually providing a lot. IE, a house on wheels.

I am not defending the lack of quality of the manufacturers, just calling out what I see as their goal to provide relatively low cost vehicles, that many people can afford to buy.

What I still find interesting is that there are no true "high end, high quality" RV's out there. The "build quality" string on this website confirmed the fact that it's the same basic components (mech, electrical, etc) assembled by the same workforce regardless of the price point. IE, the difference in quality of a $125K Rig, vs. a $250K one are not very much, or at least not worth the cost difference IMO. But, people continue to buy them, so manufacturers are not changing their ways.
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:49 PM   #16
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Is there possibly a valid reason for this?

One theory:
Does the valve twist 90 degrees or 180 degrees? If only 90 degrees, then installing valve side down (in certain cases) allows the valve to point in the out direction at all times. If the valve were on top, input and output would swap so we'd have to point the valve to the input side for winter mode. If that were the case, we'd definitely be fielding more questions about how to bypass the water heater and we'd be complaining about an indeterminate configuration! I think I'm visualizing this correctly.

If thats not it, could there be another reason other than "installer just doesn't care"? If it were 50 / 50 installed upside down then "just doesn't care" fits. If its nearly 100% valve side down for some 3 way valves in a camper then there must be a reason. Maybe a good reason...Maybe not a good reason...but a reason nonetheless.
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Old 12-24-2020, 08:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by U.S.ArmyVeteran View Post
Apparently most of the installation/construction people are paid by the "piece".

I install 12 valves per hour I get more money. I install 6 valves per hour I get less money.

What's my incentive to do it correctly or by any known convention? My boss wants quantity not quality. And this shows up in out units.

Now it is up to luck if that component is critical to the operation of our RV. Or is just an inconvenience I have to fix with some glue!

RV There yet:-)
IMHO it takes no longer to install it correctly then it does incorrectly. In fact incorrectly may take longer if there are no standards or proper instructions/training on how to do it properly and the worker has to decide which way he/she thinks is best.
Itís up to the company to have standards, make those standards known, train to those standards and provide the equipment, etc to make that standard easily attainable.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:12 PM   #18
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snip...

We were thinking about a Class A or C. While looking at class C it came to our attention through the forums that you can expect to make changes to the chassis, suspension, and much more at your own expense. This is not acceptable so we will not be putting out $80000.00 for a Class C and then spend another $10,000.00 on modifications to make drive and handle as should from the factory. I don't mean to offend anyone but you have to be crazy to accept this.

Why would you have to make changes to the chassis? These are standard factory chassis cabs. If the chassis is underrated for the builder, that's a safety issue and the DOT (feds) could get involved in that.
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Old 12-25-2020, 10:22 AM   #19
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IMHO it takes no longer to install it correctly then it does incorrectly. In fact incorrectly may take longer if there are no standards or proper instructions/training on how to do it properly and the worker has to decide which way he/she thinks is best.
It’s up to the company to have standards, make those standards known, train to those standards and provide the equipment, etc to make that standard easily attainable.
The RV industry does not use quality-enhancing processes - and isn't about to start. Publishing standards and training to standards isn't something either side is interested in.

If the RV industry was interested in changing, the obvious low hanging fruit is documenting wiring and plumbing, making up plug-in wiring harnesses and installation kits and rigorously using drilling and cutting templates. Instead, the industry follows the stick-built house methods of custom building every installation - which requires trained and knowledgeable workforce.

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Old 12-25-2020, 10:39 AM   #20
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Boy I sure agree that the RV industry needs some quality processes and standardization. When I changed my slide seal it looked like they cut the hole with a chain saw. Very rough and uneven cut. It's no wonder a lot of these slides don't fit right. Another issue is standardized wiring channels to get control wiring from the front to the back would be so easy to do and make repairs and troubleshooting much easier. The wiring under the cabinets in my Class C looks like it was just dumped in there. All in all though they work pretty good for the beating they take on the road. I also wish they would clean up the construction debris so it wouldn't migrate out during every trip.
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