Water Heater Anode Antifreeze White Flakes

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by flyrotor

leencharlotte, that's true about room to expand, as everyone can see that you fill an ice tray and the water swells when freezing but never damages the tray, the problem occurs mostly in pipes when it has a closed circumference.

Actually most ice trays do deform. But only a little and within the elastic limits of the tray so they return to their original shape. Measure one with a good vernier and you will be surprised. The ones that don't deform are the ones with smooth slopes so the ice moves up as it expands.

The trouble is that the inside base of the heater is enough like a pipe section with a closed circumference to be worrysome. Better to avoid the problem.

Cheers!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I think blasting it out with a pressure washer through the anode port is going to be the your best bet.

Pressure washer sounds like a good idea!

Originally Posted by herk7769

I will look into this further and get back to you.

Much appreciated! Please do let me know what you find!

I took a quick look at the link you provided. Not sure it applies as the overview appears to refer to an open air environment with free oxygen. But alchohols are oxygenated so maybe the process still appies. Unfortunately, I couldn't read more than the overview as I am not a member and don't have access to the full content.

Does anyone know what material the anode actually is for sure? I have seen references to zinc, aluminium, and magnesium. I would have thought it would be zinc since that is the most common anode material in most other consumer applications (marine, automotive, etc), but maybe RV Heaters are different.

Cheers!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by leencharlotte

Again I am somewhat new to this but if the rod is not installed would that allow for expansion since it is not pressurized ?

The trouble is that we are not talking expansion due to gas pressure. We are talking mechanical expansion due to ice formation. The ice chunk actually gets bigger than the space the liquid water was in before it froze. Since the ice cannot be compressed like a gas would, the container is forced to expand and could crack.

The drain plug hole does not help because the ice is frozen in place and cannot be "squeezed out of the hole" to relieve the pressure.


Cheers!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by flyrotor

Actually a small amount of water (residual after draining) will probably have enough room for expansion, by leaving the anode out this leaves an air vent, depending how early one winterizes their trailer, temps and avg humidity, there is a good chance the water will evaporate out the anode opening long before reaching freezing temps. Climate will either help or hinder the evaporation process.

As I indicated in another post, I am not all that sure that the shape of the tank can accomodate a flat sheet of expanding ice in the bottom. Maybe it can, maybe it can't. Also, I'm not positive that it will all evaporate in time if I leave the plug out. Nor am I sure more water won't form due to condensation. The bottom line is that I see no reason to gamble with it. Obviously the Antifreeze was a bad idea. I'd much rather just get all the water out, so next year I will probably just suck it out with a shop vac and then install a plastic drain plug for the winter.

Cheers!!!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by crocus

I don't think I have ever heard of anyone draining their hwt and then putting the plug back in, and filling it with anti-freeze. There simply is no point.

And thats why I seem to be the first guy to ever have this problem.... But the point was that nothing in the manual advised against doing it, and I thought I was being extra careful. Obviously I was wrong. The main reason for posting the error is to help others learn from my error.

Originally Posted by crocus

The little bit of water left in the bottom of the heater tank can freeze with no effect, or it will simply evaporate as another poster mentioned.

I wish I could be so sure. A little effort to avoid the problem is a lot less effort than replacing a broken tank. Next year I will probably just suck it out with a shop vac and plug the drain with a plastic 3/4" plug.

Originally Posted by crocus

One way or another, you should try to get the tank clean, as that white stuff may be poisonous.

Sure looks like snow white corn flakes to me! Yummy! Just kidding!!!! But seriously, I do doubt it would be harmful given that both the rod and the antifeeze are not poisonous and especially since the rod is actually doing exactly what it should do - just a bit faster than normal........ In any event, I do plan to get the stuff out. Also, we don't normally drink water from the trailer hot water tank. We just wash dishes and shower with it. Cooking is done with cold water, and we prefer bottled water for drinking. But your admonition is much appreciated. Just don't let my bride know. She will be using it for my coffee......

Cheers!

[Acableguy06]

I just bought a new HW tank to replace the old original in a 84 camper. The attwood manual talks about this very situation and states "with plug out there will be about 2 liters of water left in bottom of tank and to NOT be concerned as this will have no ill effect" (sorry if that isnt word for word) but I got the idea.

Also I was just thumbing thru and adventurerv.net catalog I recieved with my HW tank that has all their products they sell and they have a RV antifreeze for HW tanks that is less corrosive and made for HW Tanks. I cant find it online right now but I will post back more info on this later.

[youroo]

The rod in our Sur.W/H dissolves by 1/2-3/4 every year. We travel to many diff. parts of the USA,lots of diff.(Water)! The rod is doing its (Job). Yours was accelerated by the antifreeze. Our (White Flakes) are still in the system,just at a (Slower) rate. We remove screens in the fixtures and clean the (White Flakes) during the travel season. I remove rod & flush W/H out with water in the fall,throw used rod away,replace in the spring. Place SS wool in the 3/4 pipe hole where the rod was removed. I use the W/H bypass. We dont drink the (HOT) water,but use it for everything else. Our water freezes at the same temp. here in (OHIO) as Canada. Youroo!!

[Maxterra]

The white scale (flakes as you called it) is not an unnatural thing in water heaters, nor is the corroded anode.
I pull the anode out every time I get home to drain out the heater and get rid of the mineral buildup inside. Always, some scale comes out with the water.
Started doing this with the previous trailer (new in '04) and was getting flakes in the drain water right from the start.
Pretty much replaced the anode annually as is was gone at the end of the season.

I didn't read what year your unit was, but it could be possible this is normal buildup. I really would recommend to everyone draining the heater every trip, and you'll be amazed on what comes out with pulling the plug.
Just keep a roll of Teflon tape in the heater compartment and I believe it's a 1-1/16" socket to fit the hex head. Much easier to reinstall the anode with the socket on an extension by hand and only use the ratchet once it's threaded in and tight.

My $0.02 added for thought.

[Acableguy06]

Well in the catalog the "boiler Antifreeze Concentrate" is a camco product part # 88-0003 in my adventurerv.net catalog. Not sure if this would work to relieve your concerns over winter freezing.

Also to add to my Atwood manual it talks about draining and flushing the particles out of the tank for winterizing and or long storage between uses. My Atwood does not call for anode rod use and even with out the anode particles are in the tank and need flushed. I would say the particles are normal. My old tank I took out was full of snow white flakes made a big mess on a blacktop driveway.

[Acableguy06]

Here ya go I found a place online that has it.
Boiler Anti-Freeze Concentrate

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by Acableguy06

The attwood manual talks about this very situation and states "with plug out there will be about 2 liters of water left in bottom of tank and to NOT be concerned as this will have no ill effect".

2 Litres is a lot of water! Its hard for me to accept that this isn't a problem. I can't see the true shape of my water heater, but if it were cylindrical with semi-spherical heads, I could see that the water in it would simply slide up the sides as it froze and expanded - no place to push against. But mine looks like it is probably square. A square shape at the sides or front and back does provide a surface to push against. Therefore, in my case I think the risk is too high, so I still plan to suck it out with a section of plastic tubing and a shop vac to be safe.

Originally Posted by Acableguy06

I was just thumbing thru and adventurerv.net catalog I recieved with my HW tank that has all their products they sell and they have a RV antifreeze for HW tanks that is less corrosive and made for HW Tanks. I cant find it online right now but I will post back more info on this later.

Cool! Maybe it would have helped. But I wonder if less corrosive is really a good idea. The whole point of a sacrificial anode is to sacrifice itself to corrosive elements in order to protect the tank. The rod corrodes instead of the tank. I would guess that if the rod is still more active than the tank metal, it would still work. In other words, perhaps a less corrosive rod would ignore chemicals that wouldn't hurt the tank anyway. But that seems to be less safe than letting it eat them. After all, thats what it is there for. Herc7769 is doing some electro chemical research which is probably the best source of reliable data we are ever going to find on the matter (corrosion is an electrochemical process). Lets see what he comes up with.

Cheers!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by youroo

The rod in our Sur.W/H dissolves by 1/2-3/4 every year. We travel to many diff. parts of the USA,lots of diff.(Water)!

Wow. Your experience adds strength to the old saying - travel is great but don't drink the water!

Your plan sounds similar to where I am at today. Bypass tank, drain tank, vacuum residual water, and plug hole with plastic 3/4" plug.

My issue is getting rid of that thick white stuff coating the inside of my tank and making sure other users know that the tank should not be filled with anti-freeze with the anode in over winter.

Cheer!

[Acableguy06]

Originally Posted by Susquatch

2 Litres is a lot of water! Its hard for me to accept that this isn't a problem. I can't see the true shape of my water heater, but if it were cylindrical with semi-spherical heads, I could see that the water in it would simply slide up the sides as it froze and expanded - no place to push against. But mine looks like it is probably square. A square shape at the sides or front and back does provide a surface to push against. Therefore, in my case I think the risk is too high, so I still plan to suck it out with a section of plastic tubing and a shop vac to be safe.

I error-ed on the amount it states 2 quarts of water(that is alot), and the manual says after draining and flushing "replace drain plug the remaining 2 quarts of water in tank after draining will not cause damage to the tank should freezing occur". also the shape of the Atwood tank is cylindrical with semi-spherical ends, it looks square from the outside but its insulation around the tank.

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by Maxterra

I pull the anode out every time I get home to drain out the heater and get rid of the mineral buildup inside. ....... Pretty much replaced the anode annually......I didn't read what year your unit was, but it could be possible this is normal buildup. I really would recommend to everyone draining the heater every trip, and you'll be amazed on what comes out with pulling the plug. ......Just keep a roll of Teflon tape in the heater compartment and I believe it's a 1-1/16" socket to fit the hex head. Much easier to reinstall the anode with the socket on an extension by hand and only use the ratchet once it's threaded in and tight.

Good advice. The Suburban water heater uses a 3/4" NPT Plug which does indeed take a 1-1/16" socket. I have already put a wrench, socket, 6" extension, and teflon tape in my trailer tool kit..... (insert big grin here). So I agree with your recommendation.

My trailer is a new 2011 model with just two short months of use last year. Hardly any erosion of the rod when I winterized it. Completely gone when I opened this spring. I will NEVER put antifreeze in my tank again.

Cheers!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by Acableguy06

I errored on the amount it states 2 quarts of water(that is alot), .....also the shape of the atwood tank is cylidrical with semi-spherical ends, it looks square from the outside but its insulation around the tank.

Yup, 2 quarts is even more than 2 litres. But your cylindrical tank and hemispherical heads would prevent an expansion problem. So I can see why they give that advice. However, mine is a Suburban. There is nothing in the manual similar to what yours states. Since I don't know the shape, and since it might have flat sides or ends, and especially since mine also has an electric heating element in the bottom that could get bent, I just plan to play it safe and suck it out. Better safe than sorry as they say!

Thanks!!!!!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by Acableguy06

Well in the catalog the "boiler Antifreeze Concentrate" is a camco product part # 88-0003 in my adventurerv.net catalog. Not sure if this would work to relieve your concerns over winter freezing. Also to add to my Atwood manual it talks about draining and flushing the particles out of the tank for winterizing and or long storage between uses. My Atwood does not call for anode rod use and even with out the anode particles are in the tank and need flushed. I would say the particles are normal. My old tank I took out was full of snow white flakes made a big mess on a blacktop driveway.

I guess I'm not worried about what antifreeze to use in future as I won't be putting any in the tank again anyway. But it is still good to be able to buy a concentrate and mix. Better than dragging 500 containers of pre-mix home (just exaggerating). Funny that the Attwood has no Anode yet still has flakes..... Don't you have a water filter?

Thanks!!!!

[Susquatch]

Originally Posted by Acableguy06

Here ya go I found a place online that has it.
Boiler Anti-Freeze Concentrate

Thanks Andrew

Cheers!