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Old 09-17-2020, 05:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by oxcamper View Post
As a retired chemist, I would ask how is this possible?
Anti freeze is not designed to freeze.

Just a question.
RV antifreeze will freeze if it gets cold enough. Under normal conditions in most areas it never gets that cold. It will however get slushy but does not expand until it gets colder than most habitable locations.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:35 PM   #42
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Read the whole thread, you’ll see where he is answering a previous post.
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:36 PM   #43
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Winterizing in Canada with the pink stuff costing all of $15 is a no brainer. I would never take the risk of using air only as there are just too many nooks and crannies for water to hide in and that may be fine for the gentleman in Florida but I would never risk it for the cost of a lunch when it sits in an open storage yard in sub zero temperatures for winter months at a time.

By the way the pipes don't get warmer because of the antifreeze and that is not the purpose of the antifreeze. It is to displace water so it doesn't freeze solid in your pipes,fittings,shower head, taps and toilet and every where else water is.

I can't even imagine what burst pipes would cost to repair and replace so I gladly pay the $15 and I can sleep at night!!

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Old 09-17-2020, 07:36 PM   #44
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For all it cost I will buy 2 gal that all it takes
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:40 PM   #45
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Water is unique

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxcamper View Post
As a retired chemist, I would ask how is this possible?
Anti freeze is not designed to freeze.

Just a question.
Nearly all liquids contract as they cool, and when they freeze.

Water is unique. It actually contracts down to about 34F (4C), then expands until it reaches 32F (0C), and then contracts as it freezes. It is this expansion, just above the freezing point that does the damage.

RV antifreeze protects the plumbing by displacing the water with a potable non-water solution that doesn't have this strange expansion characteristic. Simplisticly (not an exact description), the molecules in RV antifreeze are more active the warmer it is. As they bounce around, they make more space for each other when it's warm. When it cools, they are less active and the overall volume decreases.

This differs from the automotive situation. That takes advantage of the chemical property that when you mix two liquids, the mixture has Boiling Point Elevation and Freezing Point Depression. Thus automotive antifreeze raises the point that your vehicle would boil over, and lowers the freezing point. For convenience, antifreeze concentrate is sold at a concentration such that you get the maximum depression at exactly a 50-50 mix. It's easy for non-chemists to get right--you just save an old antifreeze jug and pour the new one into it until both are at the same level, then fill each with water and shake. This optimum mix is called a "eutectic" (yoo-TEK-tik) mix and the new freezing point is called the "eutectic point."

For the other old-timers who remember tin-lead solder when we were still allowed to use it, 63% tin + 37% lead, the most common variety, was the eutectic blend. It had the lowest melting point, permitting you to solder components with minimum likelihood of damage.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:08 PM   #46
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If you don't like the pink stuff but want to displace the water you can use cheap vodka with food coloring. Two things to be careful with. 1) make sure your lines, fittings, and seals are not adversely affected by the alcohol. I have a good story about that. 2) be prepared for plenty of help when dewinterizing.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:16 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCR View Post
Definitely some good points..
However, I am not sure adding anti freeze to the pipes will make them any warmer if temperature is the deteriorating factor as mentioned.
WHAT???
It doesn't make them warmer! Water expands when it freezes and will crack the pipes. RV antifreeze stays liquid down to -50F (at least the concentration I use) and will not expand and crack the pipes. I have a compressor and blow out my plumbing first, but for a few bucks, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:18 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC View Post
Nearly all liquids contract as they cool, and when they freeze.

Water is unique. It actually contracts down to about 34F (4C), then expands until it reaches 32F (0C), and then contracts as it freezes. It is this expansion, just above the freezing point that does the damage.

RV antifreeze protects the plumbing by displacing the water with a potable non-water solution that doesn't have this strange expansion characteristic. Simplisticly (not an exact description), the molecules in RV antifreeze are more active the warmer it is. As they bounce around, they make more space for each other when it's warm. When it cools, they are less active and the overall volume decreases.

This differs from the automotive situation. That takes advantage of the chemical property that when you mix two liquids, the mixture has Boiling Point Elevation and Freezing Point Depression. Thus automotive antifreeze raises the point that your vehicle would boil over, and lowers the freezing point. For convenience, antifreeze concentrate is sold at a concentration such that you get the maximum depression at exactly a 50-50 mix. It's easy for non-chemists to get right--you just save an old antifreeze jug and pour the new one into it until both are at the same level, then fill each with water and shake. This optimum mix is called a "eutectic" (yoo-TEK-tik) mix and the new freezing point is called the "eutectic point."

For the other old-timers who remember tin-lead solder when we were still allowed to use it, 63% tin + 37% lead, the most common variety, was the eutectic blend. It had the lowest melting point, permitting you to solder components with minimum likelihood of damage.

^^^ what he said!!!!
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:31 PM   #49
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I use to just blow the lines out and I never had a problem until I had a problem, one year on the first camping trip I was filling up the water and then I had water running out of the camper, yep you guessed it a broken pipe, I spent days drying everything out, now I use RV anti freeze every year, I live in Nebraska where it might be warm or freezing for weeks. Your camper your choice.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:54 PM   #50
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I use to just blow the lines out and I never had a problem until I had a problem, one year on the first camping trip I was filling up the water and then I had water running out of the camper, yep you guessed it a broken pipe, I spent days drying everything out, now I use RV anti freeze every year, I live in Nebraska where it might be warm or freezing for weeks. Your camper your choice.
Yup. It only takes one time to cost a lot.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:55 PM   #51
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The most susceptible part to freezing in your rv plumbing is the small flush valve in the water line going to your toilet bowl. Less than 1/2 teaspoon of water, when frozen will crack the valve, then you have a mess on your bathroom floor when you run water through it. Other components prone to cracking when the water freezes is the screen filter for your water pump, the water pump, faucets, and elbows in the plumbing.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:55 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by hobienick View Post
If you don't like the pink stuff but want to displace the water you can use cheap vodka with food coloring. Two things to be careful with. 1) make sure your lines, fittings, and seals are not adversely affected by the alcohol. I have a good story about that. 2) be prepared for plenty of help when dewinterizing.
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Old 09-18-2020, 05:09 AM   #53
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It don't cost more then 6.00 to winterize the camper.I drain it then us air then I put my antifreeze in it. That's cheaper then any repair bill. I been doing that for over 20 yrs
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:11 AM   #54
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I have about 30 feet of clear tubing i use to siphon water from the water tank in my truck to the trailer. I tried drying it with my air compressor. The problem is that moisture in the air condenses in the line. I could never get it completely dry by blowing air through it. It convinced me to use antifreeze. I can winterize my trailer with less than 2 gallons.

I got tired of mopping up water around my pump when I removed the fittings to pump the antifreeze, so I got a small tupperware container to mount the pump in. I installed a drain in the tupperware and ran a tube through the bottom of the trailer. Now if my pump leaks, or I disconnect it, the water doesn't make a mess in the trailer.
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:20 AM   #55
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There is a caution when using the pink goop.

DO NOT DRAIN the plumbing after filling with pink.

IF air is allowed into the system by draining , some of the whatever is in the pink goo will evaporate and deposit hard goo in low spots.

This can cause a requirement for a huge amount of pipe flushing , even a day later.

Fill the FW system and drain it in the spring .
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:36 AM   #56
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I blow my system out as best I can and bypass the WH and then pump in the pink stuff until it shows at all faucets, toilet, shower.
Then depending on time and weather- if it's a decent day and I'm not in a hurry I blow out the pink stuff and set the WH back to normal. (if it's raining or blowing cold I'll just leave it in the pipes.)

That way I can hitch up and go come January when it might be horribly cold and just hook to city water and flush it at our 1st camp ground on the way south.
We'll use filtered water in a blue tote for a couple days and after that back to normal.
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:00 AM   #57
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My rig winters in Northern Ohio. I've always blown out the water lines with air then filled the intake manifold, strainer, and pump with RV antifreeze. The only time I had a problem was the year I forgot to disconnect the shower hose. The few drops of water left in the hose went back into the valve assembly and, when they froze, cracked the faucet asembly's plastic tubing behind the shower. The best part of the replacement I did was that I finally located the water leak that had plagued the rig since it was new. The pex clamp on the cold water feed line to the shower faucet wasn't fully tightened and it leaked a little bit when the water pressure was just under 50psi. At 45psi there was no leak.


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Old 09-18-2020, 09:07 AM   #58
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All it takes is a few missed drops to cause a problem in a rigid fitting or hard plastic pump to cause a problem. I could understand it if Antifreeze was 100 bucks a gallon, (exaggeration), but I'll take my chances at less than 10 bucks. I don't always blow the system out due to distance from a compressor, but using the antifreeze, (40 years of RVing), has never let me down. Zero problems from freezing and that's in Colorado with weeks of below zero, and sometimes reaching down to 20 below, (very rare, but has happened). I've heard more horror stories from the "blow out" crowd, than I've ever heard from the "pink" crowd. By the way, there are two different formulations for the "pink". That's a whole different conversation.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:40 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by U.S.ArmyVeteran View Post
Just an FYI.

Antifreeze of any type does not make anything "warmer" It raises the freezing temperature of any liquid it mixes with or replaces.
Actually, it lowers the freezing temperature of any liquid it mixes with or replaces.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:58 AM   #60
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Roughly 30 minutes, $6 worth of pink stuff = Peace of Mind over the winter. Worth every penny. Trailer sits from Columbus Day until around Memorial Day in Western NY so not as bad as some areas but we can still get several days in a row of 0 degrees. Why risk it???
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