Winterize confusion Why use antifreeze?

[NavyLCDR]

Air only here (Western Oregon). My trailer is in my driveway and is my guest room. I like to be able to fill it up with water and be ready for guests in just a few minutes without having to flush antifreeze out of the system. Antifreeze does go into the drains, though.

Takes me about 15 minutes to blow with air.

[aceinspp]

Neither way is wrong but a lot of area's in the country get pretty cold so adding the AF is a good choice. I do both which gets the AF to the water pump also. Only takes 10 mi and 1 1/2 gals of AF cheap. Later RJD

[Flybob]

Originally Posted by darrellr

I just use the shop vac to blow the traps out as well. What little water is left in the system should have plenty of expansion room.

Unless your black and grey tanks are perfectly clean and dry, I would not blow out the traps. The biggest issue with using air only is is is often not done sufficiently. To check, blow out the line. let the RV sit for a day. Reconnect air and blow out again. Was all the water out? How did you remove the water from the water pump?

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

My problem is why are you going out of your way to blow out the lines with air ?
If you don’t have a air dryer your add moisture To The pipes and valves.
Your toilet will freeze and leak in the spring, also many back flow devices, antifreeze solves this issue .

Takes me 5 minutes to open the low point drains, pump in antifreeze to all allocations, no air compressor needed.

Everything has antifreeze, black tank flush, fresh water intake, fresh water supply, washer supply etc.

Why waste your time with a compressor without a air dryer.

Since you are probably not familiar with everyone’s toilet, I suspect you meant to say “Your toilet could freeze and leak in the spring”. To say it “will” is wrong because mine has never frozen and leaked.

[Homebrew]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

Since you are probably not familiar with everyone’s toilet, I suspect you meant to say “Your toilet could freeze and leak in the spring”. To say it “will” is wrong because mine has never frozen and leaked.

Yep your correct, Not everyone has water going to there toilets.

[Aussieguy]

going to add a 3rd option....

check if your RV uses the newer plumbing PEX
that plastic tubing which is flexible and can be bent

Just drain it without blowing or adding antifreeze.


EDIT ... got submitted before finished typing
drain the system as much as possible open faucets to
protect the flimsy plastic most faucets are made from


drain ALL tanks just so it doesn't deform.


The PEX piping is good at withstanding freezing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOeBJ8mDr8Q

[Homebrew]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

going to add a 3rd option....

check if your RV uses the newer plumbing PEX
that plastic tubing which is flexible and can be bent


Just drain it without blowing or adding antifreeze.

I know on my RV just draining does not get the water out of these areas -
Pump, strainer, washer machine hook up, black tank flush, toilet valve.

There is a lot of water trapped in the plumbing.

My washer machine water supply holds pressure after everything is drained.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

going to add a 3rd option....

check if your RV uses the newer plumbing PEX
that plastic tubing which is flexible and can be bent

Just drain it without blowing or adding antifreeze.


EDIT ... got submitted before finished typing
drain the system as much as possible open faucets to
protect the flimsy plastic most faucets are made from


drain ALL tanks just so it doesn't deform.


The PEX piping is good at withstanding freezing

Pex is pretty good about withstanding freezing. The plastic connectors are not.

[Aussieguy]

if you drain the water out... as much as possible
there will be enough air in the pipes to allow for expansion
even if the air pocket is further up the pipe ,

PLUS leaving the faucets OPEN will also be of benefit

PEX and it's fittings are much less prone to freeze damage

MOST... RV's don't have hundreds of feet of piping
only fairly short runs of piping that empty fairly well


but even if there was a pocket of water trapped it would not break the PEX

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

if you drain the water out... as much as possible
there will be enough air in the pipes to allow for expansion
even if the air pocket is further up the pipe ,

PLUS leaving the faucets OPEN will also be of benefit

PEX and it's fittings are much less prone to freeze damage

MOST... RV's don't have hundreds of feet of piping
only fairly short runs of piping that empty fairly well


but even if there was a pocket of water trapped it would not break the PEX

You mention leaving the faucets OPEN. How do you leave the toilet valve OPEN? Most toilets would probably have a spring loaded pedal or handle.

I don’t hear split PEX pipes being the primary freeze damage. It’s more often toilet valves, pumps, pump strainers, water filter housings, things other than pipes.

I notice your profile and signature location is Florida. How low and for how long does the temperature go where you keep your RV? Does your winterizing advice apply to people in northern USA or Canada?

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

You mention leaving the faucets OPEN. How do you leave the toilet valve OPEN? Most would probably have a spring loaded pedal or handle.

I don’t hear split pipes being the primary freeze damage. It’s more often toilet valves, pumps, pump strainers, water filter housings, things other than pipes.

Exactly.

Like I said before, I'm not here to change anyone's mind. Do whatever works for you.

This debate comes up every single year.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Exactly.

Like I said before, I'm not here to change anyone's mind. Do whatever works for you.

This debate comes up every single year.

It does.

And every spring we hear of someone charging their plumbing system who only blew out in the fall and now have a leak somewhere. Go figure.

I wonder why the manufacturers charge the plumbing systems with antifreeze before leaving the factory?

As cheap as they are, they could save thousands of dollars by "just blowing out."

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by 5picker

It does.

2021 - https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...on-242228.html

2020 - https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ze-218664.html

AND

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...er-216758.html

2019 - https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ze-195197.html

I'm sure I could keep going.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Briorick

Personal preference. And for some of us who live in colder climates, it can / may be just a bit of extra protection. No right or wrong..... strictly personal preference. As they say.....to each their own.

For myself, it takes all of 5 minutes tops to winterize using antifreeze. I'm good!

But how long does it take to flush the pink stuff out?

I quit using the stuff a long time ago and just blow system out just like the yard sprinklers.

I still pour some antifreeze in drain traps but one could just use the exhaust from a shop vac or small electric leaf blower to blow water out and into gray tank where it can be drained. The manufacturer of my old Hot Tub advised to do this to remove all water from it's drain pipes.

As you said, "strictly personal preference" but since I like to use my TT all through the winter months with a "blown dry" system it's merely a matter of adding water and going (along with the other essentials of course).

[Aussieguy]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

I notice your profile location is Florida. How low and for how long does the temperature go where you keep your RV? Does your winterizing advice apply to people in northern USA or Canada?

we still have a 100yr old house up North it is now a rental...

had to deal with burst pipes in it's crappy plumbing


I have taken note on the comments about .... pump toilet etc

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

But how long does it take to flush the pink stuff out?

The exact same amount of time it takes to get the air out of the lines.

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

The exact same amount of time it takes to get the air out of the lines.

Maybe not exactly. Most of the purged AF would go to the waste tanks. If my first outing involved camping without sewer hookup, I would want to drain my waste tanks of the AF that was flushed from the plumbing, in order to have maximum waste tank capacity for my outing. If, on the other hand, I was simply purging air from the water lines, I would not need to drain my waste tanks.

Secondly, since we drink from the RV fresh water tank and plumbing, once air is purged, the water is good to drink. If antifreeze was in the lines, I would need to flush the lines longer in order to remove all traces of the antifreeze.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

The exact same amount of time it takes to get the air out of the lines.

But air doesn't flood my trailer pad.

[NMWildcat]

Everyone winterizes their own way. And it doesn't matter if you use air or antifreeze or both, if you miss an area, you will probably get to fix it later. BUT, you will probably never forget that spot again!!
Like everything in RVing, it is a learning process.
I used antifreeze a couple of times and hated it. For the last 40 years I used compressed air only (Yes! Without a dryer!). It has worked just fine, even when living in the higher elevations of CO.
I will say that every new RV I have had, has different problem areas that I might have to adjust my blow out routine for.
I will say that I haven't winterized my RV for several years as we are lucky enough to be using it throughout the winter in southern NM. And yes, we still get many hard freezes Average morning temp when we are living in it for 2 months during pecan harvest is 18°. I'm getting too old for this!!
Happy RVing!

[Flybob]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

if you drain the water out... as much as possible
there will be enough air in the pipes to allow for expansion
even if the air pocket is further up the pipe ,

X

When water freezes, it expands in all directions. Air in a line will allow it to expand in the direction of the line but has no impact on the expansion perpendicular to the line.