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Old 05-27-2019, 11:42 PM   #21
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I have a two lead acid 6 volt battery system; been perfect for three years now, on my stock FR Surveyor. We even boon-docked two days this week.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theb2b View Post
From Interstate battery, they call them paste batteries.

These where the batteries the dealer had planned on using, not my choice.


Trying to learn here based on what I have been told by the dealer and manufacture.
I would forget what you are hearing from the dealer based on what you've posted so far. All battery mfr's use a proprietary paste in their batteries to help form the positive plates. They are not CALLED paste batteries but mfr's will claim their paste is better than the other guys. In lead based batteries there is
WET CELL... lead based paste plates surrounded by sulfuric acid. This is what dealers typically install and also typically install dual purpose batteries rather than true deep cycle ones. Reason: CHEAPER to do so and most people don't deep cycle...they stay plugged in.

AGM...Absorbed Glass MAT... which is lead based pasted surrounded by fiberglass mat based with absorbed acid gelled solution. About twice as expensive as wet cells with MANY advantages for certain uses BUT neither increased capacity OR cycle life are part of their advantages over wet cells.

GEL Cell... lead based paste plates suspended in a gelled acid electrolyte. Primarily used in deep cycle stationary applications like power backup and solar. Requires different charging voltages and regimen.
*************

The GC2 6v golf cart battery PAIR hooked up correctly LOOKS exactly like a 12V battery of similar amp hours to ANY charger. There is ZERO problem with your WFCO working just fine with golf cart deep cycles.
Get yer golf carts & fuggedabout it. Just don't ask about Lithium!
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:05 AM   #23
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Never heard such nonsense as FR or the dealer is spewing. Read Cam's last two paragraphs again (they're just above).

I've run a large 12v battery on my '06 Roo since 2007 on whatever WFCO charger/converter came from the factory. Never a hint of other than normal charging. The large 12v battery is two 6v Trojans wired in series but the battery charger doesn't know that. It's just one big battery.

There ARE different charge algorithms for flooded, and AGM batteries. Using anything other than flooded batteries is a waste of resources in this application so the charging differences are moot.

I'd personally not fool with the dealer on this any longer. A cheap 12v Group 24 battery will come with the camper. Fit a pair of Trojan 6v in appropriate boxes after you own it if you really need the amp hours or when the cheap battery dies.

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Old 05-28-2019, 08:11 PM   #24
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Sent email to dealer with the manufacture responses and another to Tony McDowell at Rockwood, see what I get back in response.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:11 AM   #25
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Thanks All

Quote:
I would forget what you are hearing from the dealer based on what you've posted so far. All battery mfr's use a proprietary paste in their batteries to help form the positive plates. They are not CALLED paste batteries but mfr's will claim their paste is better than the other guys. In lead based batteries there is
WET CELL... lead based paste plates surrounded by sulfuric acid. This is what dealers typically install and also typically install dual purpose batteries rather than true deep cycle ones. Reason: CHEAPER to do so and most people don't deep cycle...they stay plugged in.
I thought, incorrectly, paste and jell was the same or the term could be used interchangeably for jell. I now know this is incorrect, thanks all for setting me straight.

My goal here is to get WFCO, the dealer and FR to agree to what is correct and isn't. IE 6 volt batteries do our don't work, seems simple enough.

Personally concerned that the controller is known by FR to not work with 6 volt batteries and continue to use it or why they haven't put out a public release stating its a problem and being addressed and in the intern not to use 6 volt batteries. I'm going to continue to push for a clear answer from all involved, see what happens.
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:41 AM   #26
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Be advised, you may have to wait a while. perhaps forever.

FR is not in the battery or converter business. They did not design, build or sell them. Warranted work is thru the manufacturer.

If you call them you likely will be talking to a new hire clerk reading from a script.

The standard converter is best suited to a wet acid battery. Whether the battery has 3 or 6 cells in the box is not relevant if they are hooked up to produce 12 volts.

The larger the cells, generally the more durable they are.

A dealer will install a battery guaranteed to get you off the lot. Marine batteries are not deep cycle batteries. That is often what they install because they are cheaper.

If you intend to ever get off the grid get the greatest number of GC batteries that fit in your box or whatever.

Also required if you opt for the residential refrigerator. Deciding to add later means disposing of what ever is in there. Batteries should be the same age and model.
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:51 AM   #27
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Hi,


Two years ago at the Rally, the FR electrical systems guy did a seminar. He clearly stated that the 6 volt setups we are talking about here will not charge properly with typical 12 volt converters. No amount of audience input would deter him.


I have been running sequential sets of Trojan T-105s in various trailers for years with both OEM and upgraded converters. Now I have 600 watts of solar, but the message from where my experience takes me is the same -- two six volt deep cycles act just like one twelve volt battery to a typical charger.


FWIW.

Rich Phillips
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:09 AM   #28
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Hi,


Two years ago at the Rally, the FR electrical systems guy did a seminar. He clearly stated that the 6 volt setups we are talking about here will not charge properly with typical 12 volt converters. No amount of audience input would deter him.


I have been running sequential sets of Trojan T-105s in various trailers for years with both OEM and upgraded converters. Now I have 600 watts of solar, but the message from where my experience takes me is the same -- two six volt deep cycles act just like one twelve volt battery to a typical charger.


FWIW.

Rich Phillips
Yes, there are thousands of people out there who use series connected 6 v batteries with the standard converters used in RV's with no problems.

However, if you read the detail sheets from various battery manufacturers they each seem to have a different spec for the various stages of charging. Some want a higher absorbtion rate voltage as well as float voltage than others. All determined by the individual manufacturers chemistry and testing results.

Once upon a time Flooded Lead Acid Batteries used to be quite simple with everyone using essentially the same chemistry. Over the years the construction has changed with the first major change being "Maintenance Free". Most 12 volt batteries are designed to work with conventional automotive/marine charging systems. Golf Cart and industrial deep cycle batteries are not. They are designed to work with their own grid powered chargers. That said the requirements are CLOSE ENOUGH that they will work in standard 12 v systems without major handicaps.

Wouldn't it be nice if Converter manufacturers included a set of DIP switches that would let the end user program the charger to his battery manufacturer's published charging requirements. Some Solar and Marine chargers (Victron is one) provides for this in their Smart units and you can make the necessary adjustments in charger output from your smart phone.

With this you can satisfy just about every manufactures desired charge algorithm.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:24 AM   #29
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Got a response from Mark at FR, unfortunately it went to voice mail the message he left he stated "they don't supply batteries, nor give opinions that's up to the dealership. Lots of GO's run parallel 6 volt and we do not discourage that".

What does GO mean?


Got response from convertor manufacture saying no issue with the correct battery type, FR says no problem but yet TitanMike information on FR electrical system tech statement 6 volt systems won't charge correctly with 12 volt convertors. Wish these people get their act together.
I have two 6 volt wet cell batteries so I'm going to put them in, monitor the charge rate and move on.


Thanks all for your help and advice.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:21 AM   #30
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A 12v battery charger will not charge "parallel 6 volt" batteries but will easily handle a 12v battery made up of two 6v in series.

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Old 05-30-2019, 08:32 AM   #31
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A 12 v battery has about a 10% charge at 11.5 volts.
If it is down to 10.5 volts it is dead as a door nail.
You do not want to go much below about 12.1 volts which is 50% charge.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:41 AM   #32
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FR has no saying or bearing on the WFCO warranty. If what you read supports your application then that's all you need. FR is full of crap.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:54 AM   #33
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FR has no saying or bearing on the WFCO warranty. If what you read supports your application then that's all you need. FR is full of crap.
If I have any problems I'll upgrade to a better, "smart" controller. IE Victron 50A 100/50 Controller.

Quote:
A 12 v battery has about a 10% charge at 11.5 volts.
If it is down to 10.5 volts it is dead as a door nail.
You do not want to go much below about 12.1 volts which is 50% charge.
Thanks for the heads up ppine, next step will be to purchase a battery monitor, suggestions on a mid-range model?
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