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Old 11-03-2021, 11:00 AM   #1
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2590s - install lithium batteries inside

I have a 2021 Rockwood 2509s with the solar package and it came with 2 wet cell batteries in a box on the tongue. These batteries work ok, but don't last very long. I want to get some lithium batteries but I want to put them in the box on the tongue. I don't think I can fit two (or more), I'm concerned about the temperature here in Colorado, and I'm worried about theft.

I would like to put them under the couch but does anyone have experience rerouting the battery cables from the tongue to inside the camper ? Is this difficult to do?
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Old 11-03-2021, 11:14 AM   #2
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I have no experience with you model so I will just say it depends.

If your battery disconnect and in-line fusing is at the nose near the current batteries, than you can either run your wires from the new location back up to the nose (larger wire for longer run) or you can move the fuse/disconnect closer to the battery. You will still need to run something to the nose for the tongue jack and emergency brake cable but the battery to converter cable may be shorter.

As for running the cables, if you have an enclosed under belly it can be a pain but if its open than its fairly easy to follow existing runs using a generous supply of zip ties.

looking at your model on line, if you are putting them under the couch at the front of the camper it should be pretty straight fwd, hardest part would be finding/making an entry hole.
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Old 11-03-2021, 11:19 AM   #3
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I have a 2021 Rockwood 2509s with the solar package and it came with 2 wet cell batteries in a box on the tongue. These batteries work ok, but don't last very long. I want to get some lithium batteries but I want to put them in the box on the tongue. I don't think I can fit two (or more), I'm concerned about the temperature here in Colorado, and I'm worried about theft.

I would like to put them under the couch but does anyone have experience rerouting the battery cables from the tongue to inside the camper ? Is this difficult to do?
Rerouting the cables is not all that hard. It can be as simple as drilling a hole through the floor next to your new battery location, and replacing the battery wire from the shutoff switch on the tongue to batteries with a new wire. Seal hole on top and bottom with some good caulking compound.

This will provide the same current and charging capabilities as the OE installation. If you upgrade the Converter for the LiFePo4 batteries consider just installing a floor mount next to the batteries and run a piece or 12-2 w/ground romex from power distribution panel's converter circuit breaker to an outlet next to the new converter. Same approach, drill hole in floor and seal with caulk when finished installing.

There should be a hole in the floor near the power center that allows you to get wire into the space below the floor (above underbelly cover). Cutting a window or two in underbelly cover will allow you to route the wire without having to drop the cover. Merely re-fasten the window flaps by using zip ties through drilled holes in the cover, or some wood backing strips and screws, then tape up with Gorilla Tape or aluminum HVAC tape.

When routing the wire through the frame members zip tie it in place on both ends to minimize movement. If yo see sharp edges then take a piece of heater hose, split it, then use it to cover wire in the vulnerable areas.

Having the converter next to the batteries negates the need to upsize the wire from the power center to batteries if the converter remains there. Close to the batteries allows the batteries to receive the max output from the converter which allows them, especially LiFePo4 batteries, to charge in a minimum amount of time.

That's the simple way. On my TT I ran a piece of Liquid-Tite conduit (basically a piece of flexible plastic tubing) from my power center to new converter location. I then connected the converter to power panel with stranded wire pulled through the conduit.
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:15 PM   #4
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Thanks for the information.

However, this sounds more complicated than I imagined. I was hoping I could just disconnect the batteries and feed the wires back inside through the original holes.

To be honest I'm not really sure where all the electrical components are in the camper. Is there a good way to get diagrams of what I'm dealing with? None of this type of information is in the owners manual. It's also difficult because I'm not able to store my RV at my house so I have to pick it up and take it somewhere to do these types of projects. I'm just trying to prepare myself for what I'll need.

Sounds like I need to take it out and take some pictures of where the cables are currently routed and maybe pull some panels off the inside to see if I can find where the current electoral wires run. I can't wait to get this done, but seems like I'd better take it slow or I could have big problems.
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:20 PM   #5
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if the cables are long enough, it can be as simple as rerouting the existing cables. If you get under the trailer you should be able to trace the wires to the junction box pretty easy. Usually along the frame rail on the door side of the camper.
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:35 PM   #6
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I'll have to look when I pick it up from the storage lot, but the underbelly is sealed. I don't remember being able to see anything.
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Old 11-03-2021, 01:00 PM   #7
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I'll have to look when I pick it up from the storage lot, but the underbelly is sealed. I don't remember being able to see anything.
It's not exactly sealed but rather just covered with a corrugated plastic material. It can be opened by removing the nail fasteners along the edge and then just refastening with self tapping screws the same size as the "nails".

Either that or cutting in some window flaps and re-fastening as suggested in an earlier post.

Some trailers (mine included) have an area near the front that isn't covered where the tongue extends back under the trailer itself. On my TT this allows one to drill the hole in an uncovered area, up into a storage compartment, and from there it can be re-routed.

It all depends on the specific trailer and how much effort one wants to go to to install the new wire.
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Old 11-03-2021, 04:11 PM   #8
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I plan on doing the same thing. Right now my lithium is in the box on the tongue. I installed a DC-DC converter inside the camper. To do that I had to run wires down below, and I found they used a hole saw to go through the floor of the camper for the other wiring. I believe there will be plenty of room to shove the charging wires back up through that hole. I'm hoping the existing wiring will be long enough,but who knows. The hard part is reaching the wiring where it comes through the floor. It's in the cavity where the head of the murphy bed folds up, so it may be easier to take the murphy bed out to do the project, but I'm not sure.
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Old 11-03-2021, 09:45 PM   #9
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If you get batteries with low temp protection the temperature issue should be negated, or you can get heated batteries depending on your use case. As to theft, eTrailer sells steel lock boxes to replace the OEM plastic box on your tongue. There should be plenty of room for two 100AH (e.g. BB10012).

Unless you were going for a huge battery bank I would just keep it on the tongue. If you wanted to avoid the few hundred dollar investment on the steel box you could always remove the batteries and put them in the trailer while it’s in storage. Inconvenient, but cheap.

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Old 11-03-2021, 10:50 PM   #10
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I put my 4 batteries inside under the jackknife. I replaced the factory battery box with a small waterproof junction box and ran heavier gauge wire from the storage area down outside the frame rail like TitanMike mentioned and then to the junction box where i connected to the factory wiring. I only made some minor changes from there in the factory setup. Bypassed the disconnect switch and wired the breakaway switch directly to my batteries.
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:54 AM   #11
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I plan to put mine inside so they can charge (via solar or generator) if it is freezing and I'm using the camper (thus heating the inside anyway). If you never use your camper without it being plugged in that's not important (your converter will take care of the 12V side), but then I don't know why you'd invest in lithium if that were the case. Otherwise, in freezing weather, if you aren't plugged in, everything would go dead. I built my own lithium battery and looked at battery heaters, and decided it was easier and safer just to move it inside. If you have the $$$ for commercial batteries Battleborne makes a heated one, I'm sure there are others.

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If you get batteries with low temp protection the temperature issue should be negated, or you can get heated batteries depending on your use case. As to theft, eTrailer sells steel lock boxes to replace the OEM plastic box on your tongue. There should be plenty of room for two 100AH (e.g. BB10012).

Unless you were going for a huge battery bank I would just keep it on the tongue. If you wanted to avoid the few hundred dollar investment on the steel box you could always remove the batteries and put them in the trailer while it’s in storage. Inconvenient, but cheap.

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Old 11-04-2021, 12:47 PM   #12
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Are you going to use the stock converter to keep your batteries charged? This is something I've been going back and forth with as I've been considering doing either one 204 amp hour lithium or 2 105 amp hour lithium batteries... How to keep it charged up.
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Old 11-04-2021, 02:14 PM   #13
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I still have the stock converter in mine, but I have a $40 lithium charger that I use to top it off before a trip. My solar controller is lithium compatible and as I mentioned I put in a DC-DC converter for the truck. It's only 20 amp though. I think at most I get 8A from the truck. I plan on replacing the converter so I don't have to mess with the other charger.

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Are you going to use the stock converter to keep your batteries charged? This is something I've been going back and forth with as I've been considering doing either one 204 amp hour lithium or 2 105 amp hour lithium batteries... How to keep it charged up.
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Old 11-04-2021, 03:27 PM   #14
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Are you going to use the stock converter to keep your batteries charged? This is something I've been going back and forth with as I've been considering doing either one 204 amp hour lithium or 2 105 amp hour lithium batteries... How to keep it charged up.
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I still have the stock converter in mine, but I have a $40 lithium charger that I use to top it off before a trip. My solar controller is lithium compatible and as I mentioned I put in a DC-DC converter for the truck. It's only 20 amp though. I think at most I get 8A from the truck. I plan on replacing the converter so I don't have to mess with the other charger.
With the "old/stock" converter LiFePo4 batteries will charge to around 90 PLUS percent. The usual 13.8 volt absorption rate from a standard converter/charger is actually above the "resting" voltage of most LiFePo4 batteries. When this type of battery is removed from all charging sources and allowed to sit for any period of time the actual voltage drops to ~13.3 volts and it's considered desirable to NOT store LiFePo4 batteries fully charged.

The only problem with using a conventional converter/charger with LiFePo4 batteries they may, or may not, stay above 14v (Bulk) charge voltage long enough to allow the BMS to properly balance cells. A solar charge controller set to "lithium" will. So will the relatively inexpensive Lithium Capable battery maintainer.

In short there are several ways besides replacing the OE converter to safely use LiFePo4 batteries. Solar and the inexpensive supplemental charger are two.
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:36 PM   #15
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Are you going to use the stock converter to keep your batteries charged? This is something I've been going back and forth with as I've been considering doing either one 204 amp hour lithium or 2 105 amp hour lithium batteries... How to keep it charged up.
I plan on using the stock convertor and it also came with a PWM solar charge controller and 190W solar panel as part of the solar package. It has the capacity to accept 2 more panels with the controller, although it's not the most efficient charge controller it may be good enough for me. I don't usually go for more than a week at a time and plan on getting a generator to run the AC.
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:46 PM   #16
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My plan is to start with a lithium battery then add solar. Our new camper is apparently setup with a connection on the roof for the panels running to the battery.
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:48 PM   #17
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With the "old/stock" converter LiFePo4 batteries will charge to around 90 PLUS percent. The usual 13.8 volt absorption rate from a standard converter/charger is actually above the "resting" voltage of most LiFePo4 batteries. When this type of battery is removed from all charging sources and allowed to sit for any period of time the actual voltage drops to ~13.3 volts and it's considered desirable to NOT store LiFePo4 batteries fully charged.



The only problem with using a conventional converter/charger with LiFePo4 batteries they may, or may not, stay above 14v (Bulk) charge voltage long enough to allow the BMS to properly balance cells. A solar charge controller set to "lithium" will. So will the relatively inexpensive Lithium Capable battery maintainer.



In short there are several ways besides replacing the OE converter to safely use LiFePo4 batteries. Solar and the inexpensive supplemental charger are two.
I had heard they would get it to that 90% range or so. I figured I'd work my way I to it. Also considered just doing away with the convertor and wiring in a charger to the battery from the 120 side. Too many options
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Old 11-04-2021, 06:26 PM   #18
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I had heard they would get it to that 90% range or so. I figured I'd work my way I to it. Also considered just doing away with the convertor and wiring in a charger to the battery from the 120 side. Too many options
The issue that will arise by doing this is that your average battery charger will charge the LiFePo4 batteries far slower than the Converter/Charger, up to that 90% level.

Doing away with the Converter doesn't eliminate it's need. It provides power to the system when on shore power so the batteries aren't depleted.

A Charger capable of charging at the same rate as your converter will be at least as expensive as a replacement converter so no savings there.

In the end, doing away with the converter will cost more in the long run than just a small battery maintainer with Lithium capabilities.

Believe it or not, you can hard wire a Lithium capable charger/maintainer to the LiFePo4 batteries and leave it plugged into 120 volts all the time. When on shore power both it, and the Converter will charge the batteries. When the Conveter reaches the end of it's programmed charge the charger/maintainer will continue charging until the batteries reach the full 14.4-14.6 volts they need for cell balancing.

Contrary to the belief of many, BOTH charging sources can be working at the same time. Each will contribute their max output until the end of the charging cycle and then shut down when reaching their limit. There will be no 'fighting' or damage.
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Old 11-04-2021, 06:28 PM   #19
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Smile Moving Batteries to Storage Compartment

I have an Ultra-Lite 2608BS, it came with two Lithium batteries which sit in a plastic box on the tongue, and, yes, I too am constantly worrying about theft. The dealership promised they could supply a locking mechanism to protect them, but unfortunately, that was just one more of the stories they told to make a sale. I thought about getting a TorqLift box for them, but not only are they expensive, but I really needed a third battery to balance out the solar panels on my rig. The Lithium batteries are taller, so you need a special, taller box and they are only available for two batteries.

My TT has a storage compartment on the right-front, right under the kitchen cabinets and that is where the inverter is stored. (Where the right side door of your pass-thru is.) I am in the process of adding one additional lithium battery for a total of three and they are all going into that storage compartment. Rerouting wires won’t be that hard. If you’re not used to doing it, just go one wire at a time so you don’t get lost. Your taking a lot of pictures as you go is always a big help, and don’t get in a big rush (that bites you in the rear every time! Not saying how I know!)

When I’m all done, not only will the batteries be in that compartment, but there will be cut-off switches there so I can totally isolate the batteries when not in use. I will also be putting the breakers and fuses that are normally scattered throughout the TT in this same location so all the electrical that isn’t in the control panel inside the TT will be in that one place.

I too will be taking photos as I go. Not only to help myself, but so I can put them on the forum in case they can be of help to anyone else.
Good luck with your project. Looking forward to hearing how everything works out.
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:32 PM   #20
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The issue that will arise by doing this is that your average battery charger will charge the LiFePo4 batteries far slower than the Converter/Charger, up to that 90% level.



Doing away with the Converter doesn't eliminate it's need. It provides power to the system when on shore power so the batteries aren't depleted.



A Charger capable of charging at the same rate as your converter will be at least as expensive as a replacement converter so no savings there.



In the end, doing away with the converter will cost more in the long run than just a small battery maintainer with Lithium capabilities.



Believe it or not, you can hard wire a Lithium capable charger/maintainer to the LiFePo4 batteries and leave it plugged into 120 volts all the time. When on shore power both it, and the Converter will charge the batteries. When the Conveter reaches the end of it's programmed charge the charger/maintainer will continue charging until the batteries reach the full 14.4-14.6 volts they need for cell balancing.



Contrary to the belief of many, BOTH charging sources can be working at the same time. Each will contribute their max output until the end of the charging cycle and then shut down when reaching their limit. There will be no 'fighting' or damage.
That was my intention,use a lithium capable charger maintainer. This was also the reasoning behind disabling the the converter charging side so both were not trying to charge the battery. My belief was they would fight each other as they tried or thought they were at capacity.
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