30Amp & 20Amp Y for 50Amp Service

dduncan · 06-09-2014, 01:25 PM

We are looking at new travel trailers and 5th wheel. They all have 50 Amp Service. Our dealer said they have a Y that goes for the 50 Amp Service to A 30 Amp and 20 Amp service. Has anyone herd of this before? Can this be safe?

Thanks for the help

**wmtire** · 06-09-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan

We are looking at new travel trailers and 5th wheel. They all have 50 Amp Service. Our dealer said they have a Y that goes for the 50 Amp Service to A 30 Amp and 20 Amp service. Has anyone herd of this before? Can this be safe?

Thanks for the help

They are sometimes called cheater pigtails. Even so, and if they worked as promised they could ONLY provide 50 amps (6000 watts) total.

My understanding, is that the 20 amp outlet can't be a gfci one either, for that side to work. Most campgrounds I stay in, the 20 amp is a gfci outlet. It even states so here:

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...heater-box.htm

and here

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...-adapter/25774

What most people don't understand just starting off is that a 50 amp RV uses what is called a 120/240 volt split phase service. This means they have 50 amps on two lines for a total of 100 amps (12000) watts. It would be less confusing to say it's a 50x2 service.

Check out this link below(with all the links on the lefthand side) which should help familiarize yourself with your RV's electrical, as well as testing outlets (a very safe practice you need to do). It will explain it in better detail about the 50 amp service and there is even a link that explains the 30/20 cheater pigtail.

Hope this helps.

RV Electric

EDIT: Other reading on problems with this setup:

http://www.rvamerica.com/TownTalk/RV...s/Default.aspx

dduncan · 06-09-2014, 08:04 PM

thanks for the info. So do you think you can run 2 Air Conditioners if you are not using the microwave, hairdryer, or other hi using apliances with 30 amp adapter or with the cheater Y? It gets hot in Oklahoma in july and august at the lake.

bubbles · 06-09-2014, 08:15 PM

Maybe it's just me but do these units your looking at have 50 amp or 30 amp service? In otherwords, is the cable a 50 amp or 30 amp cable for powering the unit?

NO3putt · 06-09-2014, 08:23 PM

Most AC are on seperate legs (breakers) and most likely you will have 30 amps on one and only 20 amps on the other. May or may not work. I'm taking it the RV park or state campgeound only has 30 amp service. Would highly recommend you have a good surge protector like a progressive industries 50 amp hard wired one so if you get into a low voltage service it would protect you electronics.

If you dealer says it can be done, let him show you how it's done on his lot before you buy. Then turn on both AC's and let them run and watch how hot the 20 amp extension cord gets.

dduncan · 06-09-2014, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbles

Maybe it's just me but do these units your looking at have 50 amp or 30 amp service? In otherwords, is the cable a 50 amp or 30 amp cable for powering the unit?

All the trailers we have looked at are 50 amp service meaning the cable is 50 amp. The service at most lakes we camp at are 30 amp hook up with 30 Amp female plug and two 20 Amp female
plugs. most are Corp of Engineer or state parks.

dduncan · 06-09-2014, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO3putt

Most AC are on seperate legs (breakers) and most likely you will have 30 amps on one and only 20 amps on the other. May or may not work. I'm taking it the RV park or state campgeound only has 30 amp service. Would highly recommend you have a good surge protector like a progressive industries 50 amp hard wired one so if you get into a low voltage service it would protect you electronics.

If you dealer says it can be done, let him show you how it's done on his lot before you buy. Then turn on both AC's and let them run and watch how hot the 20 amp extension cord gets.

Thanks for the good info. How does the surge protector work with low voltage. Would it shut everything down until voltage was restored?

bubbles · 06-09-2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan

All the trailers we have looked at are 50 amp service meaning the cable is 50 amp. The service at most lakes we camp at are 30 amp hook up with 30 Amp female plug and two 20 Amp female
plugs. most are Corp of Engineer or state parks.

I think I would check with the individuals running the facility to see if it is ok to use the Y interconnect. Some facilities do not allow the use of the cheater Y hookup. With only 30 amps if both AC's were to start at the same time the CB's may open. Not sure with the Y connection. I do not have experience with your delima so my input would be null and void. Hey, just try it and see what happens. Yeah, Texas is hot in the summer, that's why we leave Texas and go to Colorado/Wyoming for the summer. Happy camping.

MillerTime · 06-09-2014, 10:31 PM

You might be able to run both ac's with 30 amps, but would need to start them at different times most likely, and very few other electronics.

You might look around, I've seen a few sites that only had 30amp service, but every place we've been has 50 available at some sites. (If not at all sites). For Alot of the Corp parks you can find that info on the web, and reserve some sites as well.
We are in Chandler, Oklahoma just a little north of you. We have yet to stay at a spot without 50 amp. We've been to several around Eufaula, Keystone, and Chandler and Stroud.
And yes if you get a bigger trailer you will need both a/cs here in Ok.
Happy campin'!!

Millertime- Sabre Handler

**ependydad** · 06-10-2014, 09:29 AM

I've only attempted to run our 2 A/Cs (15k and 13.5k) once or twice on 30amp and each time it blew the pedestal breaker. I'm not sure what else we had running, though.

Evereddie · 06-10-2014, 10:15 AM

It appears to boil down to 2 things. Can the breakers handle the load but more important is there any more than 30 amps available at a campsite marked as 30 amps service. From what I have seen and heard if a campsite has only a 30 amp service it doesn't matter if you try to use the 20 amp outlet also, the total limit coming to the power pole is still only 30 amps. The 20 amp outlet comes from the same wires feeding the 30 amp outlet so using it doesn't increase the total amps available. This setup just might get around tripping a breaker but are you really getting 50 amps now. I bet the voltage drop is serious and could damage your equipment. It would be mandatory to watch your voltage while using a 30 amp, 20 amp Y splitter, or more properly called combiner.

BTW, I have the Progressive Industries monitor / protector and in my trailer it looks like the refrigerator take up to 5 amps at times. Running it on propane would give a few more amps in those situations where you are walking the line as far as power goes.

jk510 · 06-10-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan

Thanks for the good info. How does the surge protector work with low voltage. Would it shut everything down until voltage was restored?

Yes, that is exactly what happens. Running equipment on low voltage is just as bad, if not worse, than running on over voltage. Many devices have the ability to reduce the voltage if it's too high but they can't increase it.

Evereddie · 06-10-2014, 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dduncan
Thanks for the good info. How does the surge protector work with low voltage. Would it shut everything down until voltage was restored?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jk510

Yes, that is exactly what happens. Running equipment on low voltage is just as bad, if not worse, than running on over voltage. Many devices have the ability to reduce the voltage if it's too high but they can't increase it.

As long as you use a voltage protection system designed for this. A simple surge protector will not monitor and cutoff the power if it is outside of range.

**Herk7769** · 06-10-2014, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evereddie

Quote:
Originally Posted by dduncan
Thanks for the good info. How does the surge protector work with low voltage. Would it shut everything down until voltage was restored?

As long as you use a voltage protection system designed for this. A simple surge protector will not monitor and cutoff the power if it is outside of range.

A decent Power Monitor with Surge Protection will monitor for bad wiring, excessively low (below 104 volts typically), and excessively high (above 125 volts typically) and disconnect the power completely from your camper till that condition is fixed.

This is good and bad.

As discussed previously, your air conditioner powering up on an overloaded feed to your parking spot can cause the power to momentarily dip below the cutoff voltage and shut your camper down completely. It will then wait until the voltage stabilizes and (some) will reconnect you; others need to be manually reset.

This can be a real pain in the neck if you are at the end spot of a run and you are right at the limit for the service.

This is one reason I really like the Franks Autotransformer as it will hang onto that line and boost the voltage to get the AC going. Once started the amperage required will drop thereby increasing the incoming voltage where the boost may not be necessary.

dduncan · 06-10-2014, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herk7769

A decent Power Monitor with Surge Protection will monitor for bad wiring, excessively low (below 104 volts typically), and excessively high (above 125 volts typically) and disconnect the power completely from your camper till that condition is fixed.

This is good and bad.

As discussed previously, your air conditioner powering up on an overloaded feed to your parking spot can cause the power to momentarily dip below the cutoff voltage and shut your camper down completely. It will then wait until the voltage stabilizes and (some) will reconnect you; others need to be manually reset.

This can be a real pain in the neck if you are at the end spot of a run and you are right at the limit for the service.

This is one reason I really like the Franks Autotransformer as it will hand onto that line and boost the voltage to get the AC going. Once started the amperage required will drop thereby increasing the incoming voltage where the boost may not be necessary.

Does the Franks autotransformer also act as a surge protector or would you need both?

dduncan · 06-10-2014, 04:40 PM

Thanks everyone for the help. Very good discussion. After I think about it, everyone is right about just try it and see if it works. If it doesn't then only run one AC or drop other things off line to get 2nd AC on line. I would have dealer install the surge protector or the autotransformer when we buy the trailer.

**Herk7769** · 06-10-2014, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan

Does the Franks autotransformer also act as a surge protector or would you need both?

Frank's Autotransformers have built in surge suppression that meets or exceeds most of those on the market in addition to voltage correction if necessary.

See my review here:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ers-26202.html

AquaMan · 06-10-2014, 08:16 PM

I can usually run my 15 & 13.5k ac's on a 30 amp circuit by themselves. Pulls 27-29 amps with whatever ever little else may be running. Have used the cheater cord several times and has worked fine. You cannot use it on a GFI outlet. A pedestal that has 2 breakers should technically be wired to handle the total amperage of the breakers, but this isn't always true.

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