400 watt inverter install

[ruffis]

Hi everyone, I hope to safely install my little inverter to power my 35 watt draw smart tv and power my smart hub wireless internet cell signal based thing. Batteries: 2 6V 206 Ahr total Interstate PF-GC-2's. Easy install is to wire inverter along side the distribution panel, connect to the leads feeding the DC fuse panel from battery and then wire into the AC breaker feeding the TV plug. Concerns: what happens when I plug into shore power? My inverter will have a power button so I plan to turn it off but will this type wiring still cause me grief? What if I forget to turn it off when I plug in, that's what worries my most. Should I learn how to install a auto transfer switch?
Appreciate the continued advice from everyone, your input is helping me to understand and proceed with confidence toward the goal of living unplugged wherever I wish to roam. Almost forgot, can anyone recommend a 400 watt or so inverter that would suit my needs here? Enjoy your day!

[ScottBrownstein]

Yep...you need an inverter auto transfer switch, otherwise the power coming from the shore power plug will hit your inverter. They cost about $50. Easy to install .

[ruffis]

Thanks Scott, I'm googling the switch as we speak. Any brands of converters/auto switches you prefer?

[Flybob]

Check the wire gauge from the Converter to the battery. You may need to increase the gauge. #8 is best.

[ruffis]

Morning Flybob, thanks eh? In the Interest of dumbing it down for me are these wires labeled #8,#6 etc.? Mine feeding panel are maybe 1/2 diameter heavy braid type wires, one white, one red.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by ruffis

Thanks Scott, I'm googling the switch as we speak. Any brands of converters/auto switches you prefer?

Personally I prefer Xantrex Pro Watt sine wave inverters. You can get all of this stuff from Don Rowe. The best transfer switch for what you want to do is the Kisae unit since you won't have to add an additional junction box for the feed from the breaker. The remote switch is nice so that you can turn it off and on if the inverter is not that accessible. If you are close to the panel, #8 is fine and there should be a second free lug on the panel that isn't being used. 600 watts is a little more than you asked for and there are less expensive units than the Xantrex. Get pure sine wave if you can.

[Flybob]

Some are some are not sorry. The conductor on #8 is a little over 3mm.

Originally Posted by ruffis

Morning Flybob, thanks eh? In the Interest of dumbing it down for me are these wires labeled #8,#6 etc.? Mine feeding panel are maybe 1/2 diameter heavy braid type wires, one white, one red.

[ruffis]

I keep coming across the Xantrex name in my research so thanks for this. You've been more helpful than you know as I don't understand most of your post, ie there being an unused post available on the 12V panel to properly fuse my connection to inverter. I use these posts as a study guide to move forward so again I sure appreciate your feedback. I'll keep you posted!, enjoy the day

[ScottBrownstein]

Don't know what kind of RV you have, but I have never seen any DC panel fed with less than #8 wire. Here is a chart assuming that you draw 400 watts and it is 8 feet total from your inverter to the power panel to the batteries (chart is for 16 feet even though the label says 12). Loss on #8 seems OK, you will need to put an in-line fuse in the inverter feed line from the panel though. Hopefully you have a free lug if it is a combination panel and converter. Otherwise you can tap off of the output feed of your converter as those connections usually have a free lug on both the pos and negative side.

You can see that the power loss from the #8 feed is only equivalent to two LED ceiling lights...not a lot and I bet you don't get to 400 watts that often. Nice thing about the transfer switch is that you can turn on the inverter and forget everything else...it is automatic. When AC appears on the panel it drops the inverter output and uses the AC. As soon as the AC drops out, it picks up the inverter and continues to feed those outlets with 110. You can leave the inverter running anyway since is draws less than 1 amp with no load.

Would be better if we knew what your were dealing with.

[ruffis]

Not sure.how to respond to your request for my system ie "what we are dealing with" I have 206 Apr rated batteries, a WF-9855 converter located in a ridiculously inaccessible location, a WF-8930/50 distribution panel and I just learned a battery terminal block, dunno where that is. TV label says it draws 35 watts, the netgear wireless internet hub is rechargeable and probably has no discernible draw when plugged into the "cigarette" charger port. I'm thinking as long as I'm tight on my wiring connections quality I should be good to go. If the transfer switch isn't too bulky I can locate everything in this cupboard location thereby keeping g my wiring le goths to under 2' for sure.

[ruffis]

Could this battery block Bea part of the distribution panel, ie it only requires a battery connection? This makes sense to me as everything electrical starts with this panel, 12 and 110 V. service.

[HONDAMAN174]

The way I did mine was to tap into one of the D.C. Plugs in my entertainment center. Being that tv/DVD& speakers run less than 100 watts, it would be pulling a max of 7 amps which that D.C. Circuit is already fused for. I just plugged in a power strip to inverter and power all that I need whether I am dry or plugged in. It all runs off of dc

[ruffis]

So if I understand you the DVD/sound bar are already 12 V and factory wired to tap for my Inverter I stall. This is ideal location for sure and does it remove the requirement of a transfer switch?

[ScottBrownstein]

OK, that is what I needed. You can put the inverter on the neg and pos buss bars in the distribution panel, they are rated for both #8 and #4 wire, no problem.

[ruffis]

Excellent. So I connect the inverter DC side to battery bus to power it, connect ac output to transfer switch which in turn is connected to ac tv breaker and I'm golden. One more thing (isn't there always!), can I then connect from transfer switch to the WHOLE ac side? Respecting my very limited DC source power it would be like shore power hook up then.

[ScottBrownstein]

No, you can't. First off, that would immediately try to power your converter from the inverter which is a perpetual motion machine that cannot work, not to mention a whole lot of loads (A/C, HWH, microwave, etc) which the inverter cannot supply. Generally you power your "plugs" breaker which feeds all plugs outside of the GFCI plugs and also should feed your TVs, with the exception of any outside if you have one.

Let me anticipate your next question. If you try to feed both your "plugs" and GFCI" plugs with a single transfer switch you are forever putting them together for inverter and shore/generator. If you want to do that you need two transfer switches, one for each breaker.

[HONDAMAN174]

Ruffis- my DVD & sound bar are both add ons and run 120v. So I tapped into one of the power socket wiring to run power to inverter- maybe 18" of 14 ga. From there i installed inverter where I can reach it and turn on/off. Plugged in a power strip and ran that up and behind factory radio and ran all my 120v cords to it. I am pulling 4 amps running this way and the converter is supplying the 12v when we are plugged in anyways.

[ruffis]

Think I'm finally getting the picture here, forgot about that converter. So by selecting the TV AC breaker and maybe the outlet in the bedroom that supports a 2nd tv I should be fine. Nothing else. Later on I will take on the high wattage inverter install that can be supported by a battery bank/solar power/generator maintained 12 V system. Too complicated!, and expensive this year, but with everyone's help and support I will get there. Thanks so much, see you on the road.

[ScottBrownstein]

What kind of rv are we talking about? You could go ahead and get a 1500 watt unit anyway.

[ruffis]

Funny you should ask. I dove into this project green and have a 1500 watt inverter being delivered next week. Realize now I can never use it with current setup BUT if I respected the DC amp draw why not continue the install right? Later on mount it above battery bank and connect it to the distribution panel isolating the roof air and microwave of course. Pulling a 36' trailer with my trusty 05 Ram 3500 dually.