50 amp RV wiring?

[T- High]

I'm trying to wire a 50 amp plug for my 5th wheel at home for temporary use, but the wire from my 50 amp breaker only has 3 #4 wires. Can I loop the ground and common wire at the plug?

[kcmusa]

http://www.janeandjohn.org/docs/50am...stallation.pdf

[wmtire]

You need to understand how a split phase 50 amp service works for your RV, or you are going to be one unhappy camper.

Please. Please. Please read these links.


Electrical Tutorial - Chapter 3 - 30 Amp versus 50 Amp

RV Electric

http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf

Is your 50 amp breaker, a double pole?

[wmtire]

The way it sounds, you have a 50 amp 240 volt breaker, with only three wires (and are missing either a neutral or ground wire at the outlet, depending on what this outlet was powering beforehand). You are going to need to run new wires (at least one) to properly install a 50 amp 120/240 split phase service outlet that you are describing.

Now if you don't want to do this, you can adapt what you have in place. You can remove the 50 amp double pole breaker, and replace it with a single pole 30 amp breaker. You will use one of the hot wires and attach it to the breaker. Take the other unused hot wire and make it either the ground or neutral in your distribution panel. Then take the third wire and make it whichever one you need now (neutral or ground).

You now will connect it as a 30 amp RV outlet below and can use an 50/30 adapter on your RV's 50 amp cord so you can plug in. You will be limited though in what you can run to a total of 30 amps, but this should allow one air conditioner and several other things.

http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/30-amp%20Service.pdf

All of this is also explained in the second link I provided above, if you click on the appliance tabs to the left hand side of screen and it explains how to do these conversions.

[T- High]

Yes. My breaker is 50amp 2 pole.

[smo99]

T-High, I believe the answer you are looking for is (unfortunately) no.

You spurred me into doing a bunch of research after reading this. And the info out there is very confusing. Your premise that Neutral and Ground are essentially the same is correct to a point, but ONLY in the service panel box (where your breaker is located) where they both connect to ground. But if you connect ground to Neutral in the outlet, you can't assume a short (unwanted voltage) that is trying/seeking ground will go take the path through your service panel. It may take the path back into your Neutral line back into the coach and fry something.

Next, I will clarify an assumption I'm making: I'm assuming you have three wires that are insulated in your receptacle (two hot and one neutral). If you only have two insulated, and one ground (un-insulated) wire, then it's time to run a new wire.

Now having said that, and if my assumption is correct that you have three insulated lines, you may be able to install a grounding rod near your outlet and run a new ground wire from the receptacle to make up for the missing ground wire. I would use an eight foot grounding rod you can buy at Depot/Lowes and some really heavy wire (insulated is probably better in this case, but it wouldn't have to be.

The big deal is the fact that RVs have DC and AC systems intermixed and you can't assume that Neutral and Ground are the same all the time (i.e. they aren't grounded the same because the RV uses the chassis or the batteries for ground when running disconnected/inverted).

That's my two cents and I'm NOT an electrician.

If you can, run a new four wire lead from you box to your receptacle.

If your wire is two insulated and one ground, you pretty much have no choice but to run a new wire IMHO. Or go 30A.

[ependydad]

Whatever you do- make sure you check and triple check that it's wired appropriately before plugging your rig in. People can and do FRY THINGS IN THEIR RIGS when they wire something up that is wrong.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by T- High

I'm trying to wire a 50 amp plug for my 5th wheel at home for temporary use, but the wire from my 50 amp breaker only has 3 #4 wires. Can I loop the ground and common wire at the plug?

Nope not really, best to pull new wire or just make it a 30 amp outlet with a 30/ 50 adapter....BE SAFE not SORRY..... PS: IF you use your uninsulated ground for a neutral and use a grounding rod, you are asking for problems, just my limited opinion... PS: the only thing I don't like is that you would be using a uninsulated neutral. If you use a grounding rod but it would work but that bare wire will be hot...

[smo99]

Just to clarify my point and AGREE with Witch Doctor, I wouldn't use a line with two hots and one UN-INSULATED line for the neutral. As I said above, i would only use the existing lines IF and ONLY IF all three are insulated and then run a new ground line (insulated or un-insulated) to the grounding rod.

[Iwannacamp]

I am not an electrician... I am thinking these are same wiring diagrams as you would use on a mobile home or a metal shop. It requires an "extra" ground. 2 @ 120V, one box to box ground and one neutral(from pole) and the normal box to earth ground. Isn't this correct?

[DouglasReid]

You are getting some bad advice from some here who do not understand wiring. You CANNOT bond the Neutral and ground in an electrical panel Except at the "Service Entrance". To do otherwise is to risk back feeding electricity where you do not want it if you have a short. This can be DEADLY!

If you don't know what you are doing, CALL AN ELECTRICIAN. They make their living dealing with this dangerous resource. You may not like the expense, but it is better than a lifetime of regret should someone be injured or killed.

[D. J. Schuler]

Get on line and look at a wiring diagram as suggested in the thread! Your house neutral and ground are tied together. RV wiring has separate frame ground also used for 12 DC ground and 120 VAC return/neutral above ground connected to outlets neutrals and converter neutral not ground. RV grounded outlets are frame ground not tied to neutral. 50 AMP service is two (2) 120 VAC supplies only thing in common is a neutral and a ground pin on the plug to ground the trailer. That's why you can see one 120 VAC drawing 15 AMPS and the other 120 VAC line at 2 AMPS on a Progressive 50 surge protector.
Home Dryer plugs aren't wired with a neutral, just two (2) 120 VAC and ground. Internally timers and motors run on one 120 VAC line and ground, that's why it is important to ground your dryer.

[DouglasReid]

[QUOTE=D. J. Schuler;
Home Dryer plugs aren't wired with a neutral, just two (2) 120 VAC and ground. Internally timers and motors run on one 120 VAC line and ground, that's why it is important to ground your dryer.[/QUOTE]

That used to be true. Today's modern codes REQUIRE a separate Neutral and Ground as well as the two hot wires for the Dryer, Range and Oven. This code change was made for safety purposes.

I cannot stress enough, WHY take a chance? Get an Electrician if you do not know what you are doing!

[jkoenig24]

Buy and read Mike Sokol's ebook "No Shock Zone". It is a WEALTH of electrical information for RVs. I bought my copy at Amazon; less than $10.

https://www.amazon.com/No~Shock~Zone...=No+Shock+Zone

Mike has a YouTube channel too.

The life and RV you save may be your own.

[tkarper14]

Originally Posted by smo99

T-High, I believe the answer you are looking for is (unfortunately) no.

You spurred me into doing a bunch of research after reading this. And the info out there is very confusing. Your premise that Neutral and Ground are essentially the same is correct to a point, but ONLY in the service panel box (where your breaker is located) where they both connect to ground. But if you connect ground to Neutral in the outlet, you can't assume a short (unwanted voltage) that is trying/seeking ground will go take the path through your service panel. It may take the path back into your Neutral line back into the coach and fry something.

Next, I will clarify an assumption I'm making: I'm assuming you have three wires that are insulated in your receptacle (two hot and one neutral). If you only have two insulated, and one ground (un-insulated) wire, then it's time to run a new wire.

Now having said that, and if my assumption is correct that you have three insulated lines, you may be able to install a grounding rod near your outlet and run a new ground wire from the receptacle to make up for the missing ground wire. I would use an eight foot grounding rod you can buy at Depot/Lowes and some really heavy wire (insulated is probably better in this case, but it wouldn't have to be.

The big deal is the fact that RVs have DC and AC systems intermixed and you can't assume that Neutral and Ground are the same all the time (i.e. they aren't grounded the same because the RV uses the chassis or the batteries for ground when running disconnected/inverted).

That's my two cents and I'm NOT an electrician.

If you can, run a new four wire lead from you box to your receptacle.

If your wire is two insulated and one ground, you pretty much have no choice but to run a new wire IMHO. Or go 30A.

Good explanation and advice here, but one word of caution. If a second grounding rod is used, it MUST be bonded to the existing ground in the main breaker box. This is due to variance in resistance of the soil. Remember, not all grounds are created equal.

That being said, it is a viable option. The ground wire does not need to be in the same conduit as the two hots and neutral. As stated else where, if you are unsure, seek the help of a qualified electrician.

[Forbes]

Find an electrician is best advice given. After 40 plus years of work in the field I would not try and explain how to anyone unless I was looking at it and had hands on. Get some professional help to be safe.

[D. J. Schuler]

I totally agree with "Get the right INFO", old house old wiring, new house new wiring get an electrician who has/knows RV wiring (experience) too.
Also suggest Progressive Industries EMS PT50C, protects/turns off when missing/reversed ground/neutral and high/low voltage either leg and surges are detected. Three years ago watched a guy plug into neutral connected to ground on the post and no ground connection, he touched the side of his TT and knew something was wrong, thank goodness it was dry weather.

[youroo]

Originally Posted by Forbes

Find an electrician is best advice given. After 40 plus years of work in the field I would not try and explain how to anyone unless I was looking at it and had hands on. Get some professional help to be safe.

This is a Very True Statement that should be Followed!^^^ It is the same as going to a BAR and asking a Drunk Electrician "How do I wire My House"! Youroo!!

[menekaunee]

Anyone doing electrical with a RV needs to read Mike Sokol's book, "No~Shock~Zone - RV Electrical Safety".

It's a great tool to have.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by menekaunee

Anyone doing electrical with a RV needs to read Mike Sokol's book, "No~Shock~Zone - RV Electrical Safety".

It's a great tool to have.

I don't doubt it, and I am glad there are those here that would benefit from reading it.

But for ME? I want my electrician to read it.........