Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2022, 02:47 PM   #1
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
Adding another inverter

Hello My fellow campers!!

My Cedar Creek has a 1000 watt inverter that only powers my residential refrigerator when it's turned on. It is plugged into an AC outlet, and when it senses shore power, it basically turns off and transfers the incoming AC to the refrigerator.

My goal is to install another 3000 watt inverter, and wire into my transfer switch to power my outlets, etc. during overnight stopovers while on a trip

If I did this, i would of course turn off the converter, and also unplug the 1000 watt inverter, so it would still be feeding the refrigerator on it's on. and the other inverter would be powering everything else, although maybe not everything at once....

My question is: is this arrangement the best way to go, or should i remove the 1000 watt inverter, and place the 3000 watt directly into the transfer switch..... leaving the 1000 watt inverter to take care of the refrigerator, seems to make up to 3000 watts available for everything else.....is there a flaw in my thinking????? I would love to hear your experience....

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 04:36 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by pburch View Post
Hello My fellow campers!!

My Cedar Creek has a 1000 watt inverter that only powers my residential refrigerator when it's turned on. It is plugged into an AC outlet, and when it senses shore power, it basically turns off and transfers the incoming AC to the refrigerator.

My goal is to install another 3000 watt inverter, and wire into my transfer switch to power my outlets, etc. during overnight stopovers while on a trip

If I did this, i would of course turn off the converter, and also unplug the 1000 watt inverter, so it would still be feeding the refrigerator on it's on. and the other inverter would be powering everything else, although maybe not everything at once....

My question is: is this arrangement the best way to go, or should i remove the 1000 watt inverter, and place the 3000 watt directly into the transfer switch..... leaving the 1000 watt inverter to take care of the refrigerator, seems to make up to 3000 watts available for everything else.....is there a flaw in my thinking????? I would love to hear your experience....

Presley

Adding a second inverter will be very complex. I did just that and it worked but what a goat rope.


There is a simple solution that will work much better: get a Victron Multiplus II 12/3000/120-50 120x2. It is an inverter/charger and is designed specifically for 50A RVs like yours.



You can then remove the 1000W inverter (will need to rewire the fridge). You can also remove the factory converter/charger. You will need to look at more/better batteries to feed that much AC power.



Let me know if you are interested in this route and maybe I can work up a wiring diagram for you.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 04:45 PM   #3
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
Thanks Corn18!!!

Yes, that sounds like a good option - I have already 3 Lead acid batteries

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 04:50 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by pburch View Post
Thanks Corn18!!!

Yes, that sounds like a good option - I have already 3 Lead acid batteries

Presley

Ok, first thing we need to figure out is where all your stuff is installed.


This is your floorplan?


Can you mark where the following are?


1. 50A input receptacle on side of trailer
2. Genset
3. Auto transfer swith
4. Batteries
5. AC/DC control panel (the one inside with all the breakers and fuses)
6. Converter/charger (this might be part of the control panel)
7. Batteries
8. 1000W inverter


This will help determine how best to do this.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 06:07 PM   #5
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,922
It is a little more complex than you may think. Also using a 3000W inverter will require a lot of battery and some heavy duty wiring. @3000W you will be drawing 250A dc.
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 06:45 PM   #6
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 5,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob View Post
It is a little more complex than you may think. Also using a 3000W inverter will require a lot of battery and some heavy duty wiring. @3000W you will be drawing 250A dc.
Yes sir!, that's the dirty little secret about inverters.
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 06:56 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by D W View Post
Yes sir!, that's the dirty little secret about inverters.

Depends on what you are trying to run with them. Let's not jump to conclusions until we collect more info.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 09:30 AM   #8
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
Hello Flybob D W and Corn18

Thanks for all the comments!!!

1st I understand 3000 watts will draw a lot off the batteries, but i'm

not planning to run everything at once anyway. I want to plan on the future with a lithium battery bank, and cover all options. For now i would like to have the option of running a TV, make some coffee, or run a microwave, during an overnight stopover, without having to run my generator, or even our Cpap machines.

I have a portable generator (Westinghouse I 4500) I installed a 15' 50 amp extension cord directly into my transfer switch, that plugs into a 30 amp dogbone direct into my generator. This powers my rig when needed, the transfer switch is located in the front bay of my 5th wheel rig. I also installed a regular TT-30 amp female plug-in in the front bay, this will be fed by my new inverter with a short piece #10 Romex (orange) cable. When not using the generator, I can plug in the 50 amp cord (with 30 amp dogbone) into the TT-30 outlet, that will route the inverter output thru the transfer switch to power my unit.

Corn18 My batteries, 1000 watt inverter, 50 amp plugin for shore power, are all on the driver side front of my rig. AC-DC control panel, and i assume, my converter, are in a closet, in the kitchen by the island.

I also have 190 watts of solar by Go Power

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 10:56 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by pburch View Post
Hello Flybob D W and Corn18

Thanks for all the comments!!!

1st I understand 3000 watts will draw a lot off the batteries, but i'm

not planning to run everything at once anyway. I want to plan on the future with a lithium battery bank, and cover all options. For now i would like to have the option of running a TV, make some coffee, or run a microwave, during an overnight stopover, without having to run my generator, or even our Cpap machines.

I have a portable generator (Westinghouse I 4500) I installed a 15' 50 amp extension cord directly into my transfer switch, that plugs into a 30 amp dogbone direct into my generator. This powers my rig when needed, the transfer switch is located in the front bay of my 5th wheel rig. I also installed a regular TT-30 amp female plug-in in the front bay, this will be fed by my new inverter with a short piece #10 Romex (orange) cable. When not using the generator, I can plug in the 50 amp cord (with 30 amp dogbone) into the TT-30 outlet, that will route the inverter output thru the transfer switch to power my unit.

Corn18 My batteries, 1000 watt inverter, 50 amp plugin for shore power, are all on the driver side front of my rig. AC-DC control panel, and i assume, my converter, are in a closet, in the kitchen by the island.

I also have 190 watts of solar by Go Power

Presley

How did you connect the 15' 50A extension cord, exactly? The reason I ask is if done improperly, it might be powering the existing 50A connection on the side of the trailer. That would be very dangerous.


I'll need to mock up a wiring diagram to figure out what you are trying to do. I should work, but it all depends on how you are wiring things in the transfer switch.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 11:11 AM   #10
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 5,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
Depends on what you are trying to run with them. Let's not jump to conclusions until we collect more info.
There's no conclusions to jump to, just fact. Flybob did the math using Ohm's Law for a 3000W inverter. (P ÷ E = I)
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 11:14 AM   #11
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
The 50 amp cord goes into transfer switch that is setup for an onboard generator

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 11:14 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by D W View Post
There's no conclusions to jump to, just fact. Flybob did the math using Ohm's Law for a 3000W inverter. (P ÷ E = I)

Yeah, basic math. I'm not an idiot. I wait until I get all the details before I start spewing how much the OP has to change to make it work. Or worse, that it won't work.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 11:23 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by pburch View Post
The 50 amp cord goes into transfer switch that is setup for an onboard generator

Presley

So the 4500 genset is hooked to the ATS as if it were the on board genset? That is perfect.


Now we have to look at your TT-30 input. Plugging the genset cable into this 30A plug with a dogbone should work. There are lots of folks that just plug it into the outside RV input, but this works just as well if not better.


When hooked to shore power, does your ATS prioritize generator input? They usually do, but not sure on yours. What I want to make sure of is that nothing bad happens if you happen to have the inverter plugged into the 30A plug and the RV plugged into 50A shore power at the same time. If the inverter is on and the ATS prioritizes the generator, you will be running off the inverter and not shore power. You will need to remember to unplug the inverter to be on shore power.

Also, what exactly do you have for batteries?
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 11:36 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 2,578
Inverters on standby consume 20 ah dc per day each. 2 x 20 is 40 or more.

I think I would be trying for only one. Or being careful to have them off when not needed.
tomkatb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 11:42 AM   #15
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
Hey Corn18

I will not be turning on the 3000 watt inverter while on shore power, as there is no need.

I have 3 batteries in parallel - (1) from camping world 27 series
(1) also from camping world 24 series
(1) I just installed 24 series 135 Amp Hour
Not sure the amp hour on the 2 camping world batteries, but probably close to 350 Amp hours total between the 3 batteries

I know mixing batteries is not the best solution, but i asked CW for an extra battery, and they put in the 24 series - then I have added another 24 series from Walmart Deep cycle

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 12:00 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by pburch View Post
Hey Corn18

I will not be turning on the 3000 watt inverter while on shore power, as there is no need.

I have 3 batteries in parallel - (1) from camping world 27 series
(1) also from camping world 24 series
(1) I just installed 24 series 135 Amp Hour
Not sure the amp hour on the 2 camping world batteries, but probably close to 350 Amp hours total between the 3 batteries

I know mixing batteries is not the best solution, but i asked CW for an extra battery, and they put in the 24 series - then I have added another 24 series from Walmart Deep cycle

Presley
G24 batteries are usually 80Ah and G27 are usually 100Ah. It gets cornfusing because Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) deep cycle batteries have lots of different A ratings.

I would assume you have 260 Ah of batteries. Best practice is to only discharge FLA deep cycle by 50%, so you have 130Ah of usable power.

Now we get into the details of what you are trying to do.

A 3000W inverter will draw darn near 300A at full tilt. Mine does.

Here are some real world amp draws from the batteries running through an inverter (this is less efficient than running off a generator or shore power):

135A - single 15k BTU
75A - drip coffee maker
125A - Keurig coffee maker
110A - 900W microwave
130A - fireplace on high
70A - fireplace on low
12A - residential fridge while cooling
10A - 50" LED TV with separate soundbar
125A - basic toaster oven
125A - hair dryer

This will all be in addition to your regular DC draw items.

So, how much time do you plan to spend on battery power only using the inverter? 130Ah will not last long.

Regardless, the way your system is setup should allow you to easily install an inverter. You will need to upgrade the wires connecting the batteries in parallel to handle 400A, so that is 4/0 guage wire. Then you will need to hook up the 3000W inverter as close to the batteries as possible using 4/0 cable and a 400A fuse. The inverter will feed the 10/2 Romex to the 30A female outlet. I would add a cutoff switch between the battery + and inverter + as well.

This configuration should work well and allow for easy upgrades to LiFePO4 batteries and additional solar charging.

One key to all of this is to make sure you turn off the breaker to your converter/charger while you are using the inverter. You do not want your batteries charging themselves.

BTW, have you bought an inverter yet?
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 12:42 PM   #17
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
Hey Corn18

The jumpers between the batteries are 2.0 gage already, as well as the factory
feed wires - i will not be using the fireplace while on inverter, and only occasional use of the microwave, and coffee maker (keurig). This would be mainly be for use during a overnight stopover at Cracker Barrel so i don't have to drag out the generator

This also brings up my original question? Should i leave in place the 1000 watt
inverter, so the refrigerator is running off it???? That would take the refrigerator load off the 3000 watt inverter?

Yes, to turning off the converter....

My next step in the future will be 4 lithium batteries, to increase my amp hours

I really appreciate your insight into this project!!!

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 01:00 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by pburch View Post
Hey Corn18

The jumpers between the batteries are 2.0 gage already, as well as the factory
feed wires - i will not be using the fireplace while on inverter, and only occasional use of the microwave, and coffee maker (keurig). This would be mainly be for use during a overnight stopover at Cracker Barrel so i don't have to drag out the generator

This also brings up my original question? Should i leave in place the 1000 watt
inverter, so the refrigerator is running off it???? That would take the refrigerator load off the 3000 watt inverter?

Yes, to turning off the converter....

My next step in the future will be 4 lithium batteries, to increase my amp hours

I really appreciate your insight into this project!!!

Presley

2 ga can handle 200A at short runs < 5 ft. So the best match for that would be a 2000W inverter. That should power the microwave or coffee maker as long as you don't run them at the same time.

The inverter fridge is an interesting issue. Basically, it will rarely operate. The fridge inverter has a built in ATS. The input side is powered from your circuit breaker panel. There should be a 15A breaker in there labeled refrigerator. This breaker feeds the input side of the frdige inverter ATS. If this has power, the frdige inverter will feed that power to the fridge which is hooked to the AC output of the fridge inverter. If any AC source is hooked to the power panel, the fridge inverter will just feed it through. So, if you are hooked to shore power, generator or the second inverter is on and hooked up through the 30A plug, the AC inverter will just pass that through to the fridge. There is only one case where the fridge inverter will actually be providing power to the fridge: No shore power, no generator power and the second inverter is not hooked up to the 30A plug. Now the fridge inverter will provide power to the fridge.

You may run into an issue when you have the second inverter hooked up. It will now be running the fridge in addition to anything else you turn on. The fridge will pull 800W when it first turns the compressor on for cooling. If that happens while the microwave is running, the 2000W inverter will probably shut off.

You can avoid this with a 3000W inverter, but you must upgrade the battery cables. I am not a fan of having a 3000W load on 2000W wires and trusting that the user will never use enough to overload the wire. Sounds good until a fault happens and now you have 400A going through 200A wires. This will end badly. I guess you could use a 200A fuse going to a 3000W inverter to protect the 2ga wires, but again, I don't like doing it this way.

So the short answer is the fridge inverter can stay without modification. You can use a 2000W max inverter with 2ga wire.

At this point, we need to make sure you don't buy something now that you won't need in the future. I made that mistake as I did my LiFePO4 and solar upgrades and ended up with a large pile of stuff to sell.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 01:12 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkatb View Post
Inverters on standby consume 20 ah dc per day each. 2 x 20 is 40 or more.

I think I would be trying for only one. Or being careful to have them off when not needed.

Excellent point. Inverter idle power are power hogs. For the OPs use case of wanting to run things for a short time without dragging the genset out, this should be ok. Boondocking would change everything.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 01:39 PM   #20
pburch
 
pburch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 82
Hey Corn18

My 2 ga battery cable wire is larger than 4 ga right? Would that not handle 3000 watts?

Also, if i left the 1000 watt inverter in, and unplugged it from the AC plugin(that senses shore power, and transfers) then it would only run the fridge by itself...

Presley
__________________
William Presley Burch Jr
Julie Ann Dyke Melbourne FL
2021 Cedar Creek 385TH
2021 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L 4 x 4 3.73 Gear 6' 4" Bed
Along with "Abby" and "Charlie" our Fur Babies
pburch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inverter

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 AM.