Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2024, 10:49 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 11
Back bedroom too warm with AC on

Greetings all!

I have a 2012 Rockwood Signature Ultralight and it is my first RV. I took it to a local State Park for a weekend just to learn how everything worked.

Everything worked as it should but I have a question.

This camper has a 30 amp plug but only has one AC unit. The AC does its job but it is loud and runs all the time. Also the bedroom (in the very rear) is warmer than we would like. I shut off the vents in the front of the camper to increase air flow when we go to bed, it helps but not quite enough. we put a fan on the floor and that made it ok.

I would like to explore the possibility of adding a second ac unit. I don't know if 30 amps is enough to run them both and other daily items. The refrigerator is running on 12 volts, the hot water heater is on 110 but I believe it can run on propane.

Also, I know the RV is wired for 30 amp service and I dont want to overload the internal wiring.

I do have a "Kill a watt" unit that I can use to see what the max draw is to see if a second unit can be added. Maybe a smaller or a split unit?

Thanks for any ideas, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole so maybe I should just leave it alone and just deal with it *grin*
IB-Homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 01:02 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,745
30 amp service at 120 v equals 3600 watts. 80% rule says you can safely run 2880 watts on your converter. What is the draw of your present AC? How much would a second one draw? What is the start up draw of the two combined?

Or just think in term of amps. You can draw 24 amps. What is the startup amperage of your present AC unit?
ppine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 03:00 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 11
I will check to see, this is new to me. I will get on the roof and see about the numbers you mentioned as soon as I can

Thanks for the reply
IB-Homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 03:48 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by IB-Homeless View Post
Greetings all!

I have a 2012 Rockwood Signature Ultralight and it is my first RV. I took it to a local State Park for a weekend just to learn how everything worked.

Everything worked as it should but I have a question.

This camper has a 30 amp plug but only has one AC unit. The AC does its job but it is loud and runs all the time. Also the bedroom (in the very rear) is warmer than we would like. I shut off the vents in the front of the camper to increase air flow when we go to bed, it helps but not quite enough. we put a fan on the floor and that made it ok.

I would like to explore the possibility of adding a second ac unit. I don't know if 30 amps is enough to run them both and other daily items. The refrigerator is running on 12 volts, the hot water heater is on 110 but I believe it can run on propane.

Also, I know the RV is wired for 30 amp service and I dont want to overload the internal wiring.

I do have a "Kill a watt" unit that I can use to see what the max draw is to see if a second unit can be added. Maybe a smaller or a split unit?

Thanks for any ideas, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole so maybe I should just leave it alone and just deal with it *grin*

I don't advise adding a 2nd unit with a 30A service.

First, determine if the AC is working correctly. Do this by using a duct thermometer and measuring the air temperature at the return air inlet and the exhaust air. There should be about a 15 to 20-degree difference. If it is less than 15 degrees, likely the unit is low on refrigerant.

A 10+-year-old unit will likely have leaked some or most of the refrigerant. One can a have Shrader valve installed and the unit charged with refrigerant. I also suggest using one of the Stop-Leak cartridges be used when recharging the unit. The AC Stop Leak will handle that. From Amazon: "Leak Saver Direct Inject Small System Refrigerant Leak Sealer - for Systems Up to 1 Ton" $27

You will likely be told, "It is a sealed unit and must be replaced". Well of course it is sealed, meaning there are no service ports. Any competent HVAC licensed tech can add the required valve and recharge for under $250 or less. Most RV Dealers are not licensed to do refrigeration work and thus will refuse such with the reason "it must be replaced".

With one unit, a secondary fan on the floor is of great assistance. Cold air is heavier than warm air and thus a fan on the floor is the correct approach to move air around.



Bob
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 04:11 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 529
Another option is to install a quiet exhaust fan in the bedroom. My trailer has a vent directly above the bed, an exhaust fan there would push out the warmer air at the ceiling level and pull the cooler air from the main cabin area.

I have a single AC in my 30' th wheel, but have a 50amp service, so I could install a second AC unit, but with a fan in the vent, no need for a second unit.
__________________
Marc in sunny California
2013 Crusader 260 RLD
2012 RAM 2500 Laramie CTD and 4:10
mmartin_tdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 04:18 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 3,535
Stay off the roof.

The question is can both ac units run at the same time. The answer is sort of.

If you just plug the unit into a 30 amp service the start up current of two units would likely blow the fuse. Carefully started one at a time they would run.

We run two on 30 amp service. However, we have 2 easy starts. These devices spread loads out to get around the issue.

However, running two ac units plus much else is not going to work.

My assumption is the ac unit you have are often noisy. We had the quiet cool units in our rv. These tie the ac into the duct-work. Much quieter than the ones dumping directly into the room.

A way to get a second ac unit without a lot of electrical work is to add the front AC unit. Run a line to an extension cord plugged into the shore power pole beside the 30 amp line. Or run an extension cord to an outlet in the room and get a portable ac unit..

The ac unit can have controls on the bottom of the unit to operate it. Not the rv thermostat.

For moderately warm weather the use of 2 fans to move the air around would work.

Rv's over 30' long are sort of iffy on a single ac unit. The ac unit if Freon etc is ok will cool the air 15 to 20 degrees. Take the DW's meat thermometer and measure the air coming out of the duct. The air going in should be measured. Should be 15-20 warmer.
tomkatb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 04:39 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: In the snow belt
Posts: 297
While your on the roof clean your AC units condenser coil. Also make sure you Evap coil is clean.
Odyknuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 04:43 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: Tx Hill Country
Posts: 192
I absolutely would not put two ACs on a 30 amp service. No licensed electrician would do it. People have asked recently on this dorum about adding a second 30 amp stand alone circuit just to run a second AC. The problem is that RV parks would not have two 30 amp circuits.

Don’t get me wrong, for enough money and an electrician who knows what he is doing, you can add a second unit. But doing so as a dIY based upon internet advice has the ability to burn down your trailer. Think of it as risk reward.

I would make sure your AC unit is in tip-top shape and use small fans to distribute warm or cool air around the trailer.
__________________
Jim
East-West 34 Alta 2850 KRL
2023 Expedition Platinum
jjscsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 04:58 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,745
It is clear that you need a 50 amp service for 2 ACs.
Exhaust fan is a good idea to pull cool air in.
Larger ducting.
Maybe a small evaporative cooler than just runs a small fan.
ppine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 05:24 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,146
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppine View Post
30 amp service at 120 v equals 3600 watts. 80% rule says you can safely run 2880 watts on your converter. What is the draw of your present AC? How much would a second one draw? What is the start up draw of the two combined?

Or just think in term of amps. You can draw 24 amps. What is the startup amperage of your present AC unit?
Huh? What does the converter have to do with it? If you disconnected the converter (e.g., by flipping the CONVerter breaker), you could still attempt to run two air conditioners. The 120 Vac is not passing through the converter to the 120 Vac air conditioners? Why would it?

The overload function in a circuit breaker is thermally operated. At 70(20C) it's supposed to operate for at least an hour. Of course, on a hot day it will trip sooner, but not immediately. Possibly the air conditioner will cool off the RV interior enough to prevent thermally tripping at 30 amps. Not sure why you are derating the breaker so significantly, from 30 to 24 amps.

Not sure why you are concerned about the combined startup surge either. If you have two air conditioners on separate thermostats, what is the likelihood that both will cycle at the same instant?

That said, A 13.5K BTU generator when starting requires 22 amps or 2640 watts and when running about 13 amps or 1570 watts. Combined draw could be an issue when the second one starts while the first is running. This problem is easily solved by adding a Soft-Start or Easy-Start to both air conditioners.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 06:01 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC View Post
Huh? What does the converter have to do with it? If you disconnected the converter (e.g., by flipping the CONVerter breaker), you could still attempt to run two air conditioners. The 120 Vac is not passing through the converter to the 120 Vac air conditioners? Why would it?

The overload function in a circuit breaker is thermally operated. At 70(20C) it's supposed to operate for at least an hour. Of course, on a hot day it will trip sooner, but not immediately. Possibly the air conditioner will cool off the RV interior enough to prevent thermally tripping at 30 amps. Not sure why you are derating the breaker so significantly, from 30 to 24 amps.

Not sure why you are concerned about the combined startup surge either. If you have two air conditioners on separate thermostats, what is the likelihood that both will cycle at the same instant?

That said, A 13.5K BTU generator when starting requires 22 amps or 2640 watts and when running about 13 amps or 1570 watts. Combined draw could be an issue when the second one starts while the first is running. This problem is easily solved by adding a Soft-Start or Easy-Start to both air conditioners.
I seem to think CONVERTER is used interchangeably or generically with POWER PANEL in as much as the actual converter is located inside or at the back of the POWER PANEL. In other terms, it is that box where all the electrical wires and stuff is located.

Remember, in Power Panels, breakers are for 120-volt devices and fuses are for 12-volt devices.

Running an extension cord for the 2nd unit is not advisable. It will have to sustain the 22 amp starting current. Thus #12 wire is required. And then where does one plug it in? Typical power post with have a 20 amp breaker and a 30 amp breaker along with a double pole 50 amp breaker.
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 06:08 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,146
No problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX View Post
I seem to think CONVERTER is used interchangeably or generically with POWER PANEL in as much as the actual converter is located inside or at the back of the POWER PANEL. In other terms, it is that box where all the electrical wires and stuff is located.

Remember, in Power Panels, breakers are for 120-volt devices and fuses are for 12-volt devices.

Running an extension cord for the 2nd unit is not advisable. It will have to sustain the 22 amp starting current. Thus #12 wire is required. And then where does one plug it in? Typical power post with have a 20 amp breaker and a 30 amp breaker along with a double pole 50 amp breaker.
No problem. The 20 amp breaker will sustain the startup surge, just as the 20 amp breaker in the RV sustains the startup surge of the first air conditioner. Remember, Bob, the time for a breaker overload trip--thermal operation--is measured in minutes. (The breaker short-circuit trip--magnetic operation--is much faster: 8.333 milliseconds or one 60 Hz cycle.)
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 08:27 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC View Post
No problem. The 20 amp breaker will sustain the startup surge, just as the 20 amp breaker in the RV sustains the startup surge of the first air conditioner. Remember, Bob, the time for a breaker overload trip--thermal operation--is measured in minutes. (The breaker short-circuit trip--magnetic operation--is much faster: 8.333 milliseconds or one 60 Hz cycle.)
Oh yes, I am well aware that most circuit breakers are thermal devices. The hotter they get from any source, the quicker to the rating they trip. Of course, there are magnetic breakers as well, but those aren't generally used in residential or RV service.

Bo
Bob K4TAX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 09:44 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 4,519
Ignoring the question about multiple air conditioners, there are easy steps you can take to improve the efficiency of the one you have. There are plenty of posts in this forum, and videos on youtube, detailing how to seal up the ports at the A/C intake. The ducts are built into the styrofoam of the roof but the people who assemble it apparently make little effort to fit them together well.

There are also 3rd-party products you can insert in the intake that improve airflow further. Do a little research online to determine whether you think one would help. I followed the approach of others here and built one out of the insulated board used to make rigid ducts. It's an improvement, though not miraculous.
__________________
TV: 2021 Ford F-150 4WD XLT Crew w/ 3.5L EB & HDPP, payload: 2,416#.
RV: 2020 Rockwood Mini-Lite 2507S, Propride 3P hitch w/ 1400# spring bars

Camping nights: 2021, 52; 2022, 99; 2023, TBD (90+?)

chriscowles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 10:05 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,146
Eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX View Post
Oh yes, I am well aware that most circuit breakers are thermal devices. The hotter they get from any source, the quicker to the rating they trip. Of course, there are magnetic breakers as well, but those aren't generally used in residential or RV service.

Bo
As I understand it, residential and RV breakers have BOTH a thermal and a magnetic component.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2024, 10:59 PM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by IB-Homeless View Post
Greetings all!

I have a 2012 Rockwood Signature Ultralight and it is my first RV. I took it to a local State Park for a weekend just to learn how everything worked.

Everything worked as it should but I have a question.

This camper has a 30 amp plug but only has one AC unit. The AC does its job but it is loud and runs all the time. Also the bedroom (in the very rear) is warmer than we would like. I shut off the vents in the front of the camper to increase air flow when we go to bed, it helps but not quite enough. we put a fan on the floor and that made it ok.

I would like to explore the possibility of adding a second ac unit. I don't know if 30 amps is enough to run them both and other daily items. The refrigerator is running on 12 volts, the hot water heater is on 110 but I believe it can run on propane.

Also, I know the RV is wired for 30 amp service and I dont want to overload the internal wiring.

I do have a "Kill a watt" unit that I can use to see what the max draw is to see if a second unit can be added. Maybe a smaller or a split unit?

Thanks for any ideas, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole so maybe I should just leave it alone and just deal with it *grin*

Thanks for all the knowledge and suggestions. I now have dismissed the idea of adding a second AC unit.

I think the AC unit is cold enough but it appears to not have enough volume coming out of the vents as you get to the bedroom. It seams to be acceptable volume in the front of the RV and keeps it comfortable but it seems to run longer than I would think to keep it comfortable.

I checked the intake and plugged off the holes. When it is bed time, I close all the vents in the front of the RV to direct it all to the bedroom. The air volume does slightly increase in the bedroom but not as much as I think it should.

The bedroom is a slide out so the roof vents are at the foot of the bed when extended.

Is it a possibility that some of the ductwork may have come partially loose or maybe a mouse chewed a hole in the ductwork near the bedroom? Like I mentioned, this is new to me and I will have to figure out how to inspect the ductwork without screwing something up LOL

BTW, the AC model is 48254-866
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	8319SS.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	24.3 KB
ID:	296865  
IB-Homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2024, 07:56 AM   #17
Georgia Rally Coordinator
 
aceinspp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: GA
Posts: 24,151
If its a 15000btu AC that's all you can run on 30amp. As mentioned just use a fan on a dresser. I did this for several years and worked fine till I trade for a camper with two AC with 50amp service. Later RJD
__________________
2020 Shasta Phoenix SPF 27RKSS (sold)
2018 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4 3:73 gearing. Traded 2015 Chevy 2500 6.0, 4:10
Traded 2015 30WRLIKS V-Lite
Days camped 2019 62
Days camped 2020 49 days camped 2021-74 2022-40 days 2023 5 days
aceinspp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2024, 10:20 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceinspp View Post
If its a 15000btu AC that's all you can run on 30amp. As mentioned just use a fan on a dresser. I did this for several years and worked fine till I trade for a camper with two AC with 50amp service. Later RJD
Yes it is a 15K BTU, Thanks for the reply. The fan will work, I was looking to see what options I had

Thank you
IB-Homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2024, 10:34 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by IB-Homeless View Post
Thanks for all the knowledge and suggestions. I now have dismissed the idea of adding a second AC unit.

I think the AC unit is cold enough but it appears to not have enough volume coming out of the vents as you get to the bedroom. It seams to be acceptable volume in the front of the RV and keeps it comfortable but it seems to run longer than I would think to keep it comfortable.

I checked the intake and plugged off the holes. When it is bed time, I close all the vents in the front of the RV to direct it all to the bedroom. The air volume does slightly increase in the bedroom but not as much as I think it should.

The bedroom is a slide out so the roof vents are at the foot of the bed when extended.

Is it a possibility that some of the ductwork may have come partially loose or maybe a mouse chewed a hole in the ductwork near the bedroom? Like I mentioned, this is new to me and I will have to figure out how to inspect the ductwork without screwing something up LOL

BTW, the AC model is 48254-866
Look on Amazon or eBay for a borescope or endoscope. This is an inexpensive device that you connect to your laptop or phone. It consists of 6-20 feet of fiberoptic tubing with a camera at the phone or laptop and serves as an inspection camera. You insert the tubing into the duct (or other crevice) and push it in while watching. This will help you find crushed or disconnected segments.

Another common air conditioner problem is where it goes through the roof. There's a 14" x 14" aperture through the roof. One 7" x 14" segment is for cool air entering the trailer. The other 7" x 14" segment is for warm return air from the trailer.

Installers sometimes do a bad job here, just stuffing a piece of cardboard between the segments. It comes loose and the air conditioner just moves the same air around--return to intake--and doesn't move air through the trailer. You can take off the inside covers and see whether yours needs fixing. Lots of threads on this forum showing how to do that.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2024, 06:13 AM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 22
I may have missed it, is this a ducted unit? There are fans that can be inserted into the duct to pull air thru the duct. Perhaps try one of those. I also like the ideas of ducting some air out but that means some has to come in and it will not be conditioned.

OK, thinking outside the box. Could a floor vent be installed under the floor with an accessory fan in it? This would pull air from the cool area under the AC unit and force it into the back room thus pushing hotter air out.
TTBadDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bed, bedroom, roo

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 AM.