Batteries not holding charge

Taosrick · 07-27-2019, 07:28 AM

I have a 2019 Cardinal Luxury purchased in September of last year. Several months ago when we tried to hook up without shore power there was not enough charge in the batteries to operate the hydraulics so we had to connect to power to finish. The dealer checked the batteries and found there was a issue and installed two new ones.
We usually do not keep our unit plugged in at home and always make sure the batteries are turned off and make sure the inverter is off. We usually do not let it set too long without going camping and having it plugged in for a several days and having the batteries turned on to charge.
We are having the same issue with the new batteries. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

**Flybob** · 07-27-2019, 07:32 AM

You need to check what is actually turned off when you turn off the batteries. In some units, the CO/propane detector is permanently wired to the battery and is not shut off via the battery disconnect. It will kill a battery over a few weeks. If you have a battery disconnect, make sure everything is controlled by it and nothing is connected to the battery directly.

ScottBrownstein · 07-27-2019, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taosrick

I have a 2019 Cardinal Luxury purchased in September of last year. Several months ago when we tried to hook up without shore power there was not enough charge in the batteries to operate the hydraulics so we had to connect to power to finish. The dealer checked the batteries and found there was a issue and installed two new ones.
We usually do not keep our unit plugged in at home and always make sure the batteries are turned off and make sure the inverter is off. We usually do not let it set too long without going camping and having it plugged in for a several days and having the batteries turned on to charge.
We are having the same issue with the new batteries. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

It would seem that you are not charging your batteries since they were recently new. When you go camping and plug in, that is the time to check to see if it is charging from the converter. If you have a battery monitor panel, even one of the lousy ones that uses the same LEDs as your tanks, make sure that all 4 are lit when you are plugged in. Any disconnects must be turned on in order to charge. You should see a voltage over 13 on your batteries when any charging is being done.

Kimber45 · 07-27-2019, 07:39 AM

remove the negatives from the batteries to prevent any and all draw

formerFR · 07-27-2019, 07:41 AM

...it's safe to assume that in the RVing world, you might not actually be 'disconnecting' your battery draws when you think you have 'disconnected' the batteries... there seems to always be 'mystery' draws on the House batteries.

The best choice, when not using the RV, is to actually physically disconnect the Positive battery cable from your House battery bank, if not both Positive and Negative.

As others alluded to, also, make sure that battery bank is actually getting it's charge when you are plugged in - the Converter should be doing that.
If you have an integrated Inverter/Charger, then it will be charging the house battery bank when you are plugged in, IF you have the charger function turned on.

njfishing · 07-27-2019, 08:08 AM

You likely still have a few things drawing your battery down that are hard wired to it. Smoke detector, radio memory, whatever... Drawing your batteries down too low will weaken them prematurely and sooner rather then later they won’t hold a charge.. You have a few choices... Keep your shore power hooked up so the batteries stay charged or use a trickle charger to maintain them or as mentioned above, remove the negative terminal so the batteries are completely disconnected while not in use.

Going on 5 years with a pair of 6 volts, they stay on the trailer through the winter and I make sure they are disconnected. I charge once or twice over the winter months to be safe but never during the summer. Only time they get charged is while camping or cooling off the fridge and packing it before we leave.

CHICKDOE · 07-27-2019, 08:12 AM

we have a cardinal and our batteries would go dead within a week when in storage even with the factory battery disconnect switch off. i think i tracked down 4 or 5 devices that were still connected (lp detector, co detector, stereo, lippert level up controller, generator). i installed my own disconnect switch right on the battery negative cable that disconnects all loads and now when i turn it off the batteries can go a couple of months with very minimal decrease.

TitanMike · 07-27-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taosrick

We usually do not keep our unit plugged in at home and always make sure the batteries are turned off and make sure the inverter is off. We usually do not let it set too long without going camping and having it plugged in for a several days and having the batteries turned on to charge.
We are having the same issue with the new batteries. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

If you have the RV at home, why not leave it plugged in all the time. Lead Acid batteries will "self discharge" even if you've disconnected all wires from terminals.

Plug in when you get home. The converter will fully charge the batteries and drop to a maintaining charge (float) to offset this internal discharge. Letting batteries sit partially charged causes them to loose capacity over time.

Reason most people have to shut off batteries is they can't store their RV's at home and have to put them in storage where they CAN'T plug them in.

I calculated the cost of keeping my two batteries fully charged to be less than $0.125 /day or about one Kwh/day once fully charged.

ScottBrownstein · 07-27-2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanMike

If you have the RV at home, why not leave it plugged in all the time. Lead Acid batteries will "self discharge" even if you've disconnected all wires from terminals.

Plug in when you get home. The converter will fully charge the batteries and drop to a maintaining charge (float) to offset this internal discharge. Letting batteries sit partially charged causes them to loose capacity over time.

Reason most people have to shut off batteries is they can't store their RV's at home and have to put them in storage where they CAN'T plug them in.

I calculated the cost of keeping my two batteries fully charged to be less than $0.125 /day or about one Kwh/day once fully charged.

Plug it in at home if you can and leave it that way. Batteries on. Even if you only have a 15 amp adapter and outlet. If you can't. Turn the batteries off. If that isn't enough, Remove the negative or positive cable from the batteries.

Understand that it takes days to get batteries up to 100%. If you leave the campground with undercharged batteries, you will start off with that or less. It isn't about how much power it takes to charge, most converters use very little juice in adsorb and float mode.

Turn off the inverter when you don't need it.

Nomore9-5 · 07-27-2019, 02:57 PM

Looks like you've got some pretty good advice but I'll just add a couple of things . First on ghost battery draw . There's likely something you can find on the internet that explains it in more detail but essentially you want hook up an ammeter between the negative of your battery and were it is grounded . If after you've turned your battery disconnect to off and you still see current flow you can start eliminating suspects until you don't .Second - deep cycle batteries by nature discharge naturally . I installed a 200w solar panel with a pwm charge controller to keep the batteries charged . There's no electricity where we store our unit otherwise I'd be using a battery minder .

Bluepill · 07-27-2019, 04:59 PM

Rule for safe disconnect & reconnect of battery cables:

Disconnect the negative cable that leads to the vehicle chassis FIRST.

Reconnect that cable LAST.

Reason is that if your wrench contacts any part of the metal chassis to the negative side, no short circuit will occur since they are both at the same potential. If that unintentional contact is made while working on the positive cable while the negative is still connected, there can be a very serious short circuit of thousands of watts. That could give you a serious burn as the wrench heats up very quickly, or possibly cause a battery to explode from sudden internal heating, or cause a hydrogen explosion from the large spark.

Note that to actually disconnect the battery circuit from the vehicle, it is the cable from one of the batteries that actually connects to the vehicle. There is no need to also disconnect the shorter jumper cables that connect the batteries together.

ScottBrownstein · 07-27-2019, 05:03 PM

Good advice. I guess if you have certain electronics you should be careful to make sure that the absolutely first thing you disconnect is the chassis ground. Many go for the negative post, I do, but just sayin. I don't like to mess with the chassis ground connection because of the start washer and coarse sheet metal thread. It works...but...

TitanMike · 07-27-2019, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Good advice. I guess if you have certain electronics you should be careful to make sure that the absolutely first thing you disconnect is the chassis ground. Many go for the negative post, I do, but just sayin. I don't like to mess with the chassis ground connection because of the start washer and coarse sheet metal thread. It works...but...

Moot point if one has a battery disconnect they've shut off first.

Only real reason to go to the ground first is as stated earlier, prevents accidental contact with chassis ground from causing arcing. This "rule" really applies more to batteries mounted in vehicles where they're surrounded by grounded metal. Not so much for batteries mounted in RV's.

ScottBrownstein · 07-27-2019, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Moot point if one has a battery disconnect they've shut off first.

Only real reason to go to the ground first is as stated earlier, prevents accidental contact with chassis ground from causing arcing. This "rule" really applies more to batteries mounted in vehicles where they're surrounded by grounded metal. Not so much for batteries mounted in RV's.

Yea, I know. That is what I said yesterday but I guess some people hook up Magnum stuff directly and if you disconnect the Magnum ground first, some of he other stuff make seek ground separately. Personally I don't see why or how or even understand why anyone would hook it up that way, but apparently that is what their manual says. Disconnect the positive first. Personally I think it is a design defect that is covered by a manual exception.

BillyBass · 07-28-2019, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taosrick

I have a 2019 Cardinal Luxury purchased in September of last year. Several months ago when we tried to hook up without shore power there was not enough charge in the batteries to operate the hydraulics so we had to connect to power to finish. The dealer checked the batteries and found there was a issue and installed two new ones.
We usually do not keep our unit plugged in at home and always make sure the batteries are turned off and make sure the inverter is off. We usually do not let it set too long without going camping and having it plugged in for a several days and having the batteries turned on to charge.
We are having the same issue with the new batteries. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

i have the same problem .I have a 2019 flagstaff bought it in March this yr and the battery went dead twice.I have a disconnect on my camper that shut everything down.So i went and had the it check and it show a full charge. So I am making sure the disconnect is off when it sets.

BillyBass · 07-28-2019, 08:21 AM

I have a question I know the smoke,co protector,frig and lights is run by battery so what else is ́

CHICKDOE · 07-28-2019, 09:04 AM

do you want to know all the devices that are powered by 12 vdc or those that are typically still on and that cause the drains on the batteries when stored?

our smoke alarm uses the standard 9 volt battery.

also on when batteries are disconnected:
co
lp
stereo
lippert receiver
generator

these may or may not apply to you.

Oaklevel · 07-28-2019, 09:45 AM

Also when not disconnected: Landing legs / or front jack / levelers or stabilizers / inverter if you have one / water pump / controls on water heater / awning if powered / vent fans / some ceiling fans, and more.

DouglasReid · 07-28-2019, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimber45

remove the negatives from the batteries to prevent any and all draw

YES!!

TitanMike · 07-28-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHICKDOE

do you want to know all the devices that are powered by 12 vdc or those that are typically still on and that cause the drains on the batteries when stored?

our smoke alarm uses the standard 9 volt battery.

also on when batteries are disconnected:
co
lp
stereo
lippert receiver
generator

these may or may not apply to you.

One missing item from the list, the internal discharge in Lead Acid batteries which is always present, Batteries connected or not. A lead Acid battery can "lose" 5% of its charge per month at room temperature without anything connected.

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