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Old 06-12-2021, 05:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
Others also make replacement converters but Progressive Dynamics does not make a lithium-compatible converter you can swap out directly for the one in your WF8740. Theirs will replace only the 8900 series from WFCO. If you call them, I'm sure they can provide useful advice.

The higher-rated power centers supply more amps and can accommodate more AC circuits. The important difference to you is physical size. I believe the dimensions of the 8900 (and similar) series are larger. That may be a limiting factor.

Thanks Chris,

. I have also not found a Lithium compatible Converter that would fit in the space my WFCO 8740 occupies. I think my best option is to add a 200W Solar Suitcase, and perhaps add the DC to DC Charger from the truck Tom48 suggests, if needed.

. While at home my rig is parked in a very shaded spot so the 190W roof mounted solar has not increased my SoC at all even with just parasitic loads.

. As you say, I just need to go camping and have fun. At home I have fun building things and tinkering. So while i wait for the battery to recharge fully (probably won't) i guess I will tend to a DIY solar suitcase as TitanMike mentions in one of his posts, taht should be some fun!
. Rod
. with THANKS to:
kcmusa, robo44, PhilFromMaine, NullPtr, mbbutler, jbflag21ds, Tom48, chriscowles, & TitanMike for all yur valuable input and advice.
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Old 06-12-2021, 05:14 PM   #22
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I replaced my WFCO LA converter with a WFCO LI converter for around 230.00 dollars. It was (for my Freedom Express) a drop in conversion. Now I can see up to 55amps flowing in.
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:29 PM   #23
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I replaced my WFCO LA converter with a WFCO LI converter for around 230.00 dollars. It was (for my Freedom Express) a drop in conversion. Now I can see up to 55amps flowing in.
Phil,
. What model WFCO did you replace? That must be a new series for WFCO, when I searched several months ago I did not see this a possibility for the WF-8740 I have. I will look into it, I am hoping not to have to replace and rewire the whole Power center/Converter, I hope WFCO has a component to swap out. I will look into it, thanks for the heads-up.
. Rod
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:50 PM   #24
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Phil,
. What model WFCO did you replace? That must be a new series for WFCO, when I searched several months ago I did not see this a possibility for the WF-8740 I have. I will look into it, I am hoping not to have to replace and rewire the whole Power center/Converter, I hope WFCO has a component to swap out. I will look into it, thanks for the heads-up.
. Rod
Phil's must be the 8900 series, for which PD makes a drop-in replacement. His reference to 55A tells me it's a WF-8955.
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:53 PM   #25
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… and perhaps add the DC to DC Charger from the truck Tom48 suggests, if needed. …
A DC-to-DC charger will also need a larger conductor from the truck battery to the charger in the trailer, to be effective. The 12V wire in the truck is too small to carry the current your LFP batteries will demand. There are a number of descriptions here and on YouTube about increasing the size of that wire.
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:56 PM   #26
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Did you consider a Li-compatible stand-alone 12V charger for use while in storage? NoCo, among others, make them. Since it will be in storage it will have time to charge the battery fully at a low rate, so it needn't be a big charger.

Additional solar panels should address your needs while camping.
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:21 AM   #27
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The model I installed as WF-9850L2, Deck mount Lithium-Ion Converter Charger. This one replaced the LA converter that sits at the bottom on the power center in the Freedom Express. It is the same size and fits the same foot print.



This one came with a plug end which I cut off and hard wired since I didn't have an AC outlet mounted inside the power center cavity. It is rated for 50 amps, but I measured 55 amps coming in.


This is an exclusively LI converter. I believe they also come out with one that is select-able for the common battery chemistries. The primary reason I went with this brand was for perceived compatibility. I don't know for sure that should have been a real concern.


BB, as good as they appear to be, promotes the brands they sell; so IMO, it is difficult to tell exactly which is the best choice in terms of quality.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:15 PM   #28
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A DC-to-DC charger will also need a larger conductor from the truck battery to the charger in the trailer, to be effective. The 12V wire in the truck is too small to carry the current your LFP batteries will demand. There are a number of descriptions here and on YouTube about increasing the size of that wire.
Chris,
. I have read the threads about the needed upgrade in wire size for DC to DC chargers and understand the Current vs Wire Gauge considerations. AS I plan to buy a new TV next year I will probably delay this addition until then.
. Your suggestion of a stand alone Li charger for storage is doable, but just adds another system to install, plug-in & maintain (I like simplicity).

. In the meantime, I think my plan will to be build a DIY 200w solar suitcase and use that in full sun to top off the battery at home for a couple of days until I reach ±100% SoC and then let the rooftop solar (mostly shaded, it seems to cover the parasitic loads in storage) maintain the SoC until my next trip.

. Rod
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:54 PM   #29
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... Your suggestion of a stand alone Li charger for storage is doable, but just adds another system to install, plug-in & maintain (I like simplicity). ...
Ron, I'm referring to a basic car battery charger. Just get one that has a lithium setting. They're not rare. No installation required. Plug it into an extension cord and clip the leads to your battery posts.

Your LFP battery can be stored at a low SOC without damage. If you're going where you have shore power, you don't need to worry about the charge as long as you have enough to stop the trailer if the breakaway switch is pulled. If you're going to a place with no shore power, charge it the night before using the clips for the battery posts and maintain it with the solar panels when you're in camp.
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:20 PM   #30
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Chris,
. I have a LFP compatible battery charge like you mention, that I could use as you suggest. My LFP battery is mounted deep in my exterior storage compartment, so not easily accessible without removing some camping gear. I am lazy, particularly when I return from camping, so I like to avoid more chores, although hooking up a portable charger would be about the same as setting up the solar suitcase. Guess I'll have to do motion/exertion comparison study to find out.
. I just found that WFCO is has a new Power Center (WF-8740LiS) similar to the model I have (WF-8740P) with a switch to change from FLA to LFP battery. I contacted them to find out if I can just swap out a component instead of the whole power center, waiting for a response, might be a few days.
. Rod
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:36 PM   #31
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... I just found that WFCO is has a new Power Center (WF-8740LiS) similar to the model I have (WF-8740P) with a switch to change from FLA to LFP battery. ...
That sounds like the way to go, whether you have to swap the whole box, or just the converter.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:05 PM   #32
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Thanks Chris,

. I have also not found a Lithium compatible Converter that would fit in the space my WFCO 8740 occupies. I think my best option is to add a 200W Solar Suitcase, and perhaps add the DC to DC Charger from the truck Tom48 suggests, if needed.

. While at home my rig is parked in a very shaded spot so the 190W roof mounted solar has not increased my SoC at all even with just parasitic loads.

. As you say, I just need to go camping and have fun. At home I have fun building things and tinkering. So while i wait for the battery to recharge fully (probably won't) i guess I will tend to a DIY solar suitcase as TitanMike mentions in one of his posts, taht should be some fun!
. Rod
. with THANKS to:
kcmusa, robo44, PhilFromMaine, NullPtr, mbbutler, jbflag21ds, Tom48, chriscowles, & TitanMike for all yur valuable input and advice.

I replaced my standard wfco convertor for a wfco lithium one, goes right to bulk mode @ 50 amps, (I only charge at 38 because I need thicker cable). Works a treat.

Literally 10 minutes to change out, plug and play.
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:17 PM   #33
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1) Shade on even a small part of your solar panels dramatically reduces output. 2) Many areas in the USA only have 5 hours of direct sun a day for solar output. This means 200w panel in direct sun would produce 1000w a day. If even part of it is shaded your output can be down to 60w. 3) If your panels are not aimed directly at the sun - As in on the roof of the camper - Your output is usually cut by more than 40 percent. 4) Get 2 12v 200ah golf cart batteries, put in parallel, you would have 400ah. 5) Most solar chargers only put out .5 to 1v more than what is in the battery. Because of this the solar charging is affected by other charge sources.
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:48 PM   #34
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1) Shade on even a small part of your solar panels dramatically reduces output. 2) Many areas in the USA only have 5 hours of direct sun a day for solar output. This means 200w panel in direct sun would produce 100w a day. If even part of it is shaded your output can be down to 60w. 3) If your panels are not aimed directly at the sun - As in on the roof of the camper - Your output is usually cut by more than 40 percent. 4) Get 2 12v 200ah golf cart batteries, put in parallel, you would have 400ah. 5) Most solar chargers only put out .5 to 1v more than what is in the battery. Because of this the solar charging is affected by other charge sources.
Actually, you really only have 200ah, as you want to keep them above 50% soc (roughly 12.3 volts for a fla).
200 watts of panels in full sun for 5 hours would be 1000 watt hours.
The output voltage of a charger would not be nearly as relevant as the amps it is putting in, assuming nominal voltage. My 200 watts of panels in full sun works out to 12 or slightly more amps at 13.2 to 14.5volts. It tapers off significantly as the battery voltage increases to 100% soc. But at 13.3 volts, full sun and angled appropriately, I can count on 12 to 13 amps.
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:39 PM   #35
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Actually, you really only have 200ah, as you want to keep them above 50% soc (roughly 12.3 volts for a fla).

200 watts of panels in full sun for 5 hours would be 1000 watt hours.

The output voltage of a charger would not be nearly as relevant as the amps it is putting in, assuming nominal voltage. My 200 watts of panels in full sun works out to 12 or slightly more amps at 13.2 to 14.5volts. It tapers off significantly as the battery voltage increases to 100% soc. But at 13.3 volts, full sun and angled appropriately, I can count on 12 to 13 amps.
Agreed although I'm seeing 15 amp output from my 200 watt portable panels. Wired in series and feeding an MPPT controller.

Also, panels have bypass diodes that hreatly reduce the effect of shading but with portables that's not as big an issue as with roof mounted.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:53 PM   #36
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Solar panel

Why is my solar panel sending 19 V to my battery it cooked my battery and had it smells like rotten eggs
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:25 PM   #37
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Why is my solar panel sending 19 V to my battery it cooked my battery and had it smells like rotten eggs
Generally speaking, what we commonly call a 12v solar panel actually makes about 18~19v. But you also, usually, feed that into a solar charge controller (SCC). The scc reduces that voltage to various proper voltages to charge a 12v battery through the various stages of charging, bulk, absorption, and float.
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:17 AM   #38
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During a cruise of a campground last Fall, I saw numerous campers with partially shaded panels and some with bird poop on them. This led me to believe many people don't understand( or care) how a PV panel works and how to maximize current.

Even with By-pass diodes, the effects of shading can be significant. The typical 60 cell solar panel has 3 strings of 20 PV cells. Shade one cell on one string and you have a 1/3 reduction of output. Shade 1 cell on three strings and you will have very little output.

My conclusion is that in treed areas portable panels are the way to go. Even if you have to extend the portables 40 or 50 feet from your shaded camper site.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:37 AM   #39
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Why is my solar panel sending 19 V to my battery it cooked my battery and had it smells like rotten eggs
Did you connect it directly to your battery? Don't.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:29 AM   #40
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During a cruise of a campground last Fall, I saw numerous campers with partially shaded panels and some with bird poop on them. This led me to believe many people don't understand( or care) how a PV panel works and how to maximize current.



Even with By-pass diodes, the effects of shading can be significant. The typical 60 cell solar panel has 3 strings of 20 PV cells. Shade one cell on one string and you have a 1/3 reduction of output. Shade 1 cell on three strings and you will have very little output.



My conclusion is that in treed areas portable panels are the way to go. Even if you have to extend the portables 40 or 50 feet from your shaded camper site.
Not just in treed areas but areas with incontinent or malicious birds. We have a lot of Sea gulls so camping near the ocean or Puget Sound can keep one busy cleaning off the Guano.

Ability to keep panels clean without climbing on roof was another reason I chose to go portable.
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