Battery disconnect install help

[Jay2504]

I think what Zigger is taking about is the leakage of current across the battery case. That kind of leakage is very small and won’t pull down the battery for a long time. The question that I asked in an earlier post was if the battery was running down with no electrical connection to the negative post of the battery, ether by taking off the cable or having a battery cut off switch wired to the negative side and it shut off. I would still like to know please. Jay

[babock]

Originally Posted by Jay2504

I think what Zigger is taking about is the leakage of current across the battery case.

He's not.

[mnoland30]

I found this on the internet, so it must be true, and it agrees with what i already thought:

Consider two atoms sitting beside one another. Each atom is normally balanced with an equal number of protons and electrons. As you know, protons have a positive charge and electrons have a negative charge. Everything is balanced.

If an electron is persuaded to move from one atom to the other, the second atom will now have a negative charge and the first, now an ion, will have a positive charge. This is now unbalanced. Nature does not like imbalances. The electron will, if not hindered, immediately return back to the positively charged ion. (Actually its a bit more complicated than that, and electrons tend to swish around a bit, but the net charge effect is the same.)

In a battery, a chemical reaction takes place which makes the electrons leave the positive terminal, leaving ions, and gather on the negative terminal. This makes a potential difference across the terminals. When sufficient voltage difference builds up between the electrodes, electrons can no longer make the journey across the battery and the chemical reaction suspends.

You now have something that is imbalanced.

If you hook a wire between the negative and the positive terminals, the electrons from the negative terminal and the electrons in the wire move around to restore that balance. As they arrive at the positive terminal, they reunite with ions, that allows the chemical reaction to advance, which creates more free electrons, and the battery continues to operate till the reaction is exhausted.

So, to recap, current flows around that circuit to balance the difference in charges in atoms in the circuit. However, as an entire entity, that battery circuit has a neutral charge. Even though the charges are not balanced within it, the total number of positive ions and negative electrons is still equal.

When you connect the negative terminal to earth the electrons do not cross over to ground. Why? Because they have no reason to. Because the battery, as a whole, is still charge balanced, there is no motive force to cause an electron to move. There IS NO surplus of electrons on the battery. Moreover, if some wayward, rebellious, electron were to try to venture across to ground, the battery would now have a net positive charge, and the electron would be pulled back in, or immediately replaced with another one from ground. Either way, no net current can flow to ground.

https://electronics.stackexchange.co...-cause-current

If it isn't true, then just use plastic bases under your jacks, and you'll be fine.

[ysidive]

Originally Posted by mnoland30

I found this on the internet, so it must be true, and it agrees with what i already thought:

Consider two atoms sitting beside one another. Each atom is normally balanced with an equal number of protons and electrons. As you know, protons have a positive charge and electrons have a negative charge. Everything is balanced.

If an electron is persuaded to move from one atom to the other, the second atom will now have a negative charge and the first, now an ion, will have a positive charge. This is now unbalanced. Nature does not like imbalances. The electron will, if not hindered, immediately return back to the positively charged ion. (Actually its a bit more complicated than that, and electrons tend to swish around a bit, but the net charge effect is the same.)

In a battery, a chemical reaction takes place which makes the electrons leave the positive terminal, leaving ions, and gather on the negative terminal. This makes a potential difference across the terminals. When sufficient voltage difference builds up between the electrodes, electrons can no longer make the journey across the battery and the chemical reaction suspends.

You now have something that is imbalanced.

If you hook a wire between the negative and the positive terminals, the electrons from the negative terminal and the electrons in the wire move around to restore that balance. As they arrive at the positive terminal, they reunite with ions, that allows the chemical reaction to advance, which creates more free electrons, and the battery continues to operate till the reaction is exhausted.

So, to recap, current flows around that circuit to balance the difference in charges in atoms in the circuit. However, as an entire entity, that battery circuit has a neutral charge. Even though the charges are not balanced within it, the total number of positive ions and negative electrons is still equal.

When you connect the negative terminal to earth the electrons do not cross over to ground. Why? Because they have no reason to. Because the battery, as a whole, is still charge balanced, there is no motive force to cause an electron to move. There IS NO surplus of electrons on the battery. Moreover, if some wayward, rebellious, electron were to try to venture across to ground, the battery would now have a net positive charge, and the electron would be pulled back in, or immediately replaced with another one from ground. Either way, no net current can flow to ground.

https://electronics.stackexchange.co...-cause-current

If it isn't true, then just use plastic bases under your jacks, and you'll be fine.

Way more complicated explanation than I Need...…..

[GoneSouth10]

mnoland30 - you definitely win the "Above and Beyond" award!!

Regarding the question posed by Jay2504 (whether or not "the battery was running down with no electrical connection to the negative post of the battery, ether by taking off the cable or having a battery cut off switch wired to the negative side and it shut off. "), it was not.
However, Zigger's friend (the one who does wiring for a living) claims that it was, based on a theory completely at odds with the granular level science posted by mnoland30. So yes, I guess Zigger is "saying" that his battery is draining without being connected because of electrical items grounded to the frame, but that's not what's actually "happening."
Does a lead acid battery gradually lose its charge without being connected to anything? Yes, a good battery fully charged will lose some of its charge over months and months, but that is not what Zigger (or his friend) is claiming.
FWIW, my SWAG is that Zigger has a bad battery, he fully charged it, then read the "surface charge" and determined that the battery was fully charged. Then, as that surface charge dissipated over the next half hour or so and his voltage readings became lower and lower, he was interpreting that as the battery "running down."
Bottom line, a completely disconnected battery (whether disconnected by a properly wired switch or the physical removal of every cable from one of the battery terminals - the "negative/positive terminal" argument is over on another thread ), prevents a battery from "running down" . . . Period.

[Jay2504]

Based on a lot of years working with lead acid batteries, when they go bad they can do crazy things. Holding a full voltage for a day, then reading near dead the next day, not being connected to anything, has happened to me before. Jay

[GoneSouth10]

Originally Posted by Jay2504

Based on a lot of years working with lead acid batteries, when they go bad they can do crazy things. Holding a full voltage for a day, then reading near dead the next day, not being connected to anything, has happened to me before. Jay

You're exactly right - "when they go bad" . . . which is the situation I think the OP is dealing with (as opposed to a normal/good battery somehow discharging through the RV's contact with the earth because some electrical items are grounded to the frame).
#science