Battery/Inverter Questions

[pwrboatfan]

Converter out! It was actually easy. Two screws to remove the cover, and four screws holding the panel against the wall, then two screw to remove the converter. Unplugged it and undid the power wire and both grounds. Progressive Dynamics 70 amp converter on order! I was surprised, my old WFCO is a 65 amp.

[buckeyefan]

So pwrboatfan, are you able to run everything without a battery?
Mine is showing a bad cell on the charger.
I was wondering if I needed to drop a $100 on a new one or if I can get away without one.
I like you are at a lake and on a seasonal (yearly) site.
I stay connected to 30 Amp except when it's winterized.

[TURBS]

Im glad you decided to go with pd unit !
did you also get charge wizard pendant ?

The pd will be just slightly bigger than the wfco but isn't hard to make fit as I stated before .

[pwrboatfan]

Originally Posted by buckeyefan

So pwrboatfan, are you able to run everything without a battery?
Mine is showing a bad cell on the charger.
I was wondering if I needed to drop a $100 on a new one or if I can get away without one.
I like you are at a lake and on a seasonal (yearly) site.
I stay connected to 30 Amp except when it's winterized.

I did run mine without a battery for a few minutes to test the converter, but never very long without a battery. I am sure others will jump in here but I have seen people run bad batteries on there campers for years...(my neighbor at the lake has one on his that is 8 years old and would never hold a charge)..then you have my other neighbor that has not ran a battery on his RV in two years and it has not hurt his rig yet. The RV dealer told me you had to have a good battery attached. Long answer...I am not sure. I do believe if you overload the converter, the battery can provide the extra power you might need so a good battery cannot hurt.

[D-mo]

Replace that battery ... or at least take it in and have it checked for dead cells. too many people do not understand batteries .. and go staight to the converter/recharger if there is a problem. Think about it for a second ... would not a recharger/converter completely "tank" or quit .. instead of providing a lesser charge?
Go simple and replace your battery ... and see what happens
If your seasonal ... definately replace your battery .. or else you will be replacing you converter in a couple of years.

d-mo

[pwrboatfan]

Also, looking at your signature, if your camper is a 2012, I would talk to the dealer. The converter for sure, and I would think your battery is still under warranty.

[RONXS69]

In this case the converter has an output rating of 65 amps. Generally they are designed to output a certain percentage of their list rating (continous duty cycle) before they overheat and shut down. Electric motors such as water pumps, fridge compressors, A/C units, etc. require, in many cases 1 1/2 - 2 times more amperage to get them started then to keep them running. The converter cannot provide that much amperage and this is where the battery comes into play. Good batteries are capable of providing 700 - 900 surge amps and 50 - 100 continous amps for a longer period of time before they need to be charged. The converter's job is to keep the battery(s) charged while providing some power to the appliances.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by RONXS69

In this case the converter has an output rating of 65 amps. Generally they are designed to output a certain percentage of their list rating (continuous duty cycle) before they overheat and shut down. Electric motors such as water pumps, fridge compressors, A/C units, etc. require, in many cases 1 1/2 - 2 times more amperage to get them started then to keep them running. The converter cannot provide that much amperage and this is where the battery comes into play. Good batteries are capable of providing 700 - 900 surge amps and 50 - 100 continuous amps for a longer period of time before they need to be charged. The converter's job is to keep the battery(s) charged while providing some power to the appliances.

Oh, my. Where to begin...

True: Slide and 5th Wheel landing gear motors can pull close to 25 amps when running. If you routinely (as I do sometimes) run both slides out at the same time, you could trip the converter (mine is 55 amp rated) offline. Not a problem for me since with my battery monitor I can see the batteries picking up anywhere from 25 to 30 amps of that load.

True: Motors running "hard to start" items like compressors, pumps, slide motors, etc, use more juice to get them moving than to keep them moving.

Not so true: The converter has nothing do with the air conditioner (AC only) or fridge "compressor" (does not have one).

The converter certainly can provide it's full rated amps with no problem. It can and does charge the batteries and run all the DC appliances and lighting at the same time up to its full rated output.

It will not shut down unless:

1) you demand more amps than it can safely provide (see number 2)

2) It "detects" a short circuit in your battery. This can happen if the battery is DEAD (zero volts). The massive demand for amps is "read" by the converter as a short and it shuts down.

Yes; you can run the converter without a battery (not a dead or shorted one; see above). Nowhere in the manual is this prohibited.

[RONXS69]

Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! I've been searching the forum for discussions on two problems I have on my 07 Wildwood 376.

Problem 1: Generator runs starts and runs fine. Powers applicances as necessary, however, if for instance I start the microwave it operates normally until it (the microwave) shuts off, then the generator shuts down! I tried this with other more more power demanding devices and the ame thing happens. As soon as the appliance shuts off, the generator shuts off. Does not do it with low amperage draw such as lights and stereos! I googled these symptoms and found one hit with similar symptoms. The suggestion was to have another device like a 1200 watt hair dryer running while turning on and off the microwave to see if the generator would stay running. Seems ot have something to do with the a surge of current (over current) when the device turns off and the generator doesn't like and shuts off. Any ideas?

Problem 2: My converter (stock unit) only appears to output power for just a few seconds before it too shuts off. I can tell that by placing a voltmeter on the battery and watch the voltage jump to 14.5 volts for just 10 - 15 seconds then back down to battery voltage (in this case about 12.3). While inside the unit I can hear the converter's fan come on for just a few seconds. No lights or any applicances are on a this time. Consequently the battery is not fully charged because of the short cycling converter.

Any suggestions would be more than appreciated!!!

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by RONXS69

Problem 1: Generator runs starts and runs fine. Powers applicances as necessary, however, if for instance I start the microwave it operates normally until it (the microwave) shuts off, then the generator shuts down! *** Seems ot have something to do with the surge of current (over current) when the device turns off and the generator doesn't like and shuts off. Any ideas?

Problem 2: My converter (stock unit) only appears to output power for just a few seconds before it too shuts off. I can tell that by placing a voltmeter on the battery and watch the voltage jump to 14.5 volts for just 10 - 15 seconds then back down to battery voltage (in this case about 12.3). While inside the unit I can hear the converter's fan come on for just a few seconds. No lights or any applicances are on a this time. Consequently the battery is not fully charged because of the short cycling converter.

Problem 1) What kind of generator are we talking about? I checked your profile and you have a larger 5th wheel so it could be internal or external.

Problem 2) This is not a "short cycle"; it is an overload/short shutdown. You have a bad battery. 12.3 volts when topped off is lacking one cell. A fully charged 12 volt battery should read 12.73 volts no load (disconnected for at least 2 hours). 12.3 volts is 65% of capacity.

[TURBS]

I have to add one thing to this post as "my" experience.
on a wfco converter the weak link of the system is the cooling fan.
Without a battery or a bad battery the converter is running at full song if several 12 volt items are running at once.
thus the fan runs continuous. And once that fan fails from high demand the converter is not long for the world once it starts overheating.
jmo

[RONXS69]

Thanks for your response.

Problem 1: It's a Onan Gold 5500. Again the generator runs fine even with a heavy load such as the microwave and A/C running at the same time. With the A/C running I can start and stop the microwave without the generator shutting down. If a just start the A/C or the microwave without another apllicance running, then shut that applicance off, the generator cuts off. As long as there is a load on it, it continous to run. As soon as the load is removed the generator cuts off.

Problem 2: The 5th wheel has a new battery, or so the previous owner told us. We just got it over the weekend. The battery looks new. I have not pulled it out to check the manufactures date but will. I'm experienced with charging systems and such, but not with the eletrical system in this toy hauler. The battery is low I presume because it is not getting a full charge from the converter. Even when the generator is running the 12volt lights are dim but do brighten for about the same time the converter cycles on then go dim again. I can hear the converter cycle on (fans turns on) when the lights get brighter. Seems to be the same when connected to shore power.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by RONXS69

Problem 1: It's a Onan Gold 5500. Again the generator runs fine even with a heavy load such as the microwave and A/C running at the same time. With the A/C running I can start and stop the microwave without the generator shutting down. If a just start the A/C or the microwave without another appliance running, then shut that appliance off, the generator cuts off. As long as there is a load on it, it continues to run. As soon as the load is removed the generator cuts off.

Problem 2: The 5th wheel has a new battery, or so the previous owner told us. We just got it over the weekend. The battery looks new. I have not pulled it out to check the manufactures date but will. I'm experienced with charging systems and such, but not with the electrical system in this toy hauler. The battery is low I presume because it is not getting a full charge from the converter. Even when the generator is running the 12volt lights are dim but do brighten for about the same time the converter cycles on then go dim again. I can hear the converter cycle on (fans turns on) when the lights get brighter. Seems to be the same when connected to shore power.

OK, here is what I think.

Problem 1) Dirty Carburetor - remove bowl and clean your idle jets.
Problem 2) Bad Battery
Cause:
a) Previous owner "fibbed" check manufacture date
b) Broken plate in a cell shorting to opposite plate - could be due to a single shock or cumulative shocks from any vertical "G" source.