Battery not Charging via Converter

[formerFR]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

But the OP says that everything works when plugged in. That would mean the converter is working and the fuses are OK.

"...Brand New Duracell..."

true, everything SHOULD work when the RV is plugged into Shore Power, as the Converter then simply 'converts' 120v power into 12v power, directly to the 12v fuse box, and the 12v devices....
but this has nothing to do with the Battery Charger, which sends power to the battery(s)...

if the batteries were not hooked up correctly, OR a Bus Fuse in the battery bay is Blown, then the batteries would NOT be Charged, regardless of the Charger's output to it, AND would not provide off-grid 12v power to the RV, when not plugged in.
The battery would just be a dead storage unit.


Sounds like the 'new' battery replacement has something to do with this issue, not shore power or the converter...

[Kf4mnc]

Originally Posted by formerFR

"...Brand New Duracell..."

true, everything SHOULD work when the RV is plugged into Shore Power, as the Converter then simply 'converts' 120v power into 12v power, directly to the 12v fuse box, and the 12v devices....
but this has nothing to do with the Battery Charger, which sends power to the battery(s)...

if the batteries were not hooked up correctly, OR a Bus Fuse in the battery bay is Blown, then the batteries would NOT be Charged, regardless of the Charger's output to it, AND would not provide off-grid 12v power to the RV, when not plugged in.
The battery would just be a dead storage unit.


Sounds like the 'new' battery replacement has something to do with this issue, not shore power or the converter...

See the red text above. The battery provides power with NO Shore power once I charge it up from an external battery charger.

This leads me to believe there is something wrong with the charger in the converter. However, all tests seem to indicate the system is functioning fine and there may have been an issue with the park power.

[Kf4mnc]

Ok folks, after letting the camper sit with a fully charged battery installed, and the camper hooked up to shore power for two days the battery is now completely dead.

I unplugged the camper and tried using a 12 volt appliance and nothing happens. When I check the battery meter in the camper, it won't light up.

I don't know what else to do at this point. I am ready to buy a new convertor, but hate to spend that kind of money if that isn't the issue.

Any ideas??

[Bama Rambler]

With the reading you got when you tested it hooked up and unhooked it certainly appears that the converter is doing it's job. Check for AC voltage coming out of the converter.

I would take the battery out and have it load tested. Even though it's fairly new it could still be bad.

[formerFR]

when you were plugged into power those several days, did 12v items work?

If the 12v cutoff switch is not the issue, then could you possibly have something that is drawing down the battery prematurely? It could be something that doesn’t ‘seem’ ON, but actually IS.

[formerFR]

by the way, the Converter is really only for when you ARE plugged in - all 12v items should work regardless of the converter, since they draw directly from the battery when not plugged in.
I guess you mean that you think your Charger is bad, not the Converter, though they are somewhat a combined unit.

[pgandw]

The WFCO charging specs (when camper is plugged in and converter is getting AC power):

- normal mode 13.7V
- bulk mode (you will probably never see from a WFCO converter, it's a fine line for a WFCO between battery low enough for bulk mode and battery too low to recharge): 14.4V
- trickle mode (will not take effect until 44 hours of steady current in normal mode): 13.2V

You are getting contradictory readings, so I don't know what is going on. Earlier, when plugged in, you got 13.5+ volts at the battery terminals, which would be correct for a charging battery. Before pugging in, you read 12.7V which is correct for a fully charged battery.

Now, after unplugging after 2 days of being plugged in, you get nothing.

All I can suggest is 1) have the battery load checked. If load check is good, 2) plug in for at least 3 days, without using any 12V loads beyond standard parasitic. Measure voltage every 12 hrs AT THE BATTERY. You should see 13.6-13.7V for the 1st two days. On day 3, voltage should have dropped to 13.2V. Then unplug, disconnect battery, measure voltage at the battery 12 hours later. You should see about 12.6V.

Failure to achieve the 13+ volts when plugged in is a converter or wiring issue. Voltage at converter different from voltage at the battery is a wiring issue. Failure to get 12.5-12.7V after unplugging and disconnecting for 12 hours is battery or hidden load issue.

hope this helps
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame with PD converter, 2 GC-2 Interstate batteries from Costco for 4 nights dry cmaping

[BandJCarm]

Uh, no.

The converter is ONLY for when you ARE plugged into Shore Power. It charges the batteries from the 110v input. It changes 110v to 12v.

An INVERTER is to power stuff when you are NOT plugged in to Shore Power. It changes 12v to 110v. The "stuff" is usually only the residential refrigerator. Mobile Suites has an option for 2800w Inverter that powers several outlets, but that's the only one I know of. The rest are just for the res. refrigerator.

[formerFR]

i corrected my typing error - Converters only serve to convert 120 shore power to 12v, nothing more... they are not needed when on battery-only power.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by formerFR

i corrected my typing error - Converters only serve to convert 120 shore power to 12v, nothing more... they are not needed when on battery-only power.

OK, sorry to have been too quick. Quick is RARE for me! LOL

[ScottBrownstein]

disconnect the battery, connect the camper and plug it in. If the 12 volt stuff works it isn't the converter. I recall you said that the voltage measured 13.5 or 13.6 with the camper plugged in. That is what the converter should put out.

[Kf4mnc]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

With the reading you got when you tested it hooked up and unhooked it certainly appears that the converter is doing it's job. Check for AC voltage coming out of the converter.

I would take the battery out and have it load tested. Even though it's fairly new it could still be bad.

Thanks, Great idea!

Originally Posted by formerFR

when you were plugged into power those several days, did 12v items work?

If the 12v cutoff switch is not the issue, then could you possibly have something that is drawing down the battery prematurely? It could be something that doesn’t ‘seem’ ON, but actually IS.

Yes all 12 volt items worked while plugged in.

The only thing turned on was the carbon monoxide.

See my update at the bottom of this post!

Originally Posted by formerFR

by the way, the Converter is really only for when you ARE plugged in - all 12v items should work regardless of the converter, since they draw directly from the battery when not plugged in.
I guess you mean that you think your Charger is bad, not the Converter, though they are somewhat a combined unit.

Hi, yes! I think the charger might be bad, but see my update at the bottom of the post.

Originally Posted by pgandw

The WFCO charging specs (when camper is plugged in and converter is getting AC power):

- normal mode 13.7V
- bulk mode (you will probably never see from a WFCO converter, it's a fine line for a WFCO between battery low enough for bulk mode and battery too low to recharge): 14.4V
- trickle mode (will not take effect until 44 hours of steady current in normal mode): 13.2V

You are getting contradictory readings, so I don't know what is going on. Earlier, when plugged in, you got 13.5+ volts at the battery terminals, which would be correct for a charging battery. Before pugging in, you read 12.7V which is correct for a fully charged battery.

Now, after unplugging after 2 days of being plugged in, you get nothing.

All I can suggest is 1) have the battery load checked. If load check is good, 2) plug in for at least 3 days, without using any 12V loads beyond standard parasitic. Measure voltage every 12 hrs AT THE BATTERY. You should see 13.6-13.7V for the 1st two days. On day 3, voltage should have dropped to 13.2V. Then unplug, disconnect battery, measure voltage at the battery 12 hours later. You should see about 12.6V.

Failure to achieve the 13+ volts when plugged in is a converter or wiring issue. Voltage at converter different from voltage at the battery is a wiring issue. Failure to get 12.5-12.7V after unplugging and disconnecting for 12 hours is battery or hidden load issue.

hope this helps
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame with PD converter, 2 GC-2 Interstate batteries from Costco for 4 nights dry cmaping

This is great, thanks!


_______

Update: I removed the battery and tested the voltage. The battery is showing 12.58 volts. Everything I am reading says that should be around 75-100% charged. So, I put it back into the camper with shore power disconnected and it wouldn't work. I flipped the breakers on and off and then I heard the converter fan spin up and the lights worked.

So to summarize here is what happened:

1) Put good battery in camper UNPLUGGED = 12 volt appliances work.

2) Put good battery in camper PLUGGED IN = 12 volt appliances work.

3) Remove battery, camper PLUGGED IN = 12 volt appliances work.

4) Leave battery in camper while PLUGGED IN then disconnected Shore power = 12 volt appliance do NOT work.

4-A) Flipped the breakers on and off and then 12 volt appliances began working.

So, it would appear that when on Shore Power something is being tripped, but everything in the camper is working. So what is going on?

Thoughts??

[Bama Rambler]

I know it's far fetched, but is there an outside chance that you have an auto-reset breaker in the 12 volt system between the battery and the converter/charger?

My thinking is that with the battery removed and off shore power the breaker resets and when you disconnect from shore power the breaker trips from a surge, so you don't get any power from the battery until the breaker resets.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

I know it's far fetched, but is there an outside chance that you have an auto-reset breaker in the 12 volt system between the battery and the converter/charger?

My thinking is that with the battery removed and off shore power the breaker resets and when you disconnect from shore power the breaker trips from a surge, so you don't get any power from the battery until the breaker resets.

If you measure battery voltage with & without shore power, that should tell if the converter voltage is high enough to charge the battery.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by Kf4mnc

Thanks, Great idea!

Yes all 12 volt items worked while plugged in.

The only thing turned on was the carbon monoxide.

See my update at the bottom of this post!

Hi, yes! I think the charger might be bad, but see my update at the bottom of the post.

This is great, thanks!
_______

Update: I removed the battery and tested the voltage. The battery is showing 12.58 volts. Everything I am reading says that should be around 75-100% charged. So, I put it back into the camper with shore power disconnected and it wouldn't work. I flipped the breakers on and off and then I heard the converter fan spin up and the lights worked.

So to summarize here is what happened:

1) Put good battery in camper UNPLUGGED = 12 volt appliances work.

2) Put good battery in camper PLUGGED IN = 12 volt appliances work.

3) Remove battery, camper PLUGGED IN = 12 volt appliances work.

4) Leave battery in camper while PLUGGED IN then disconnected Shore power = 12 volt appliance do NOT work.

4-A) Flipped the breakers on and off and then 12 volt appliances began working.

So, it would appear that when on Shore Power something is being tripped, but everything in the camper is working. So what is going on?

Thoughts??

Don't know why you are tripping a breaker - but that is apparently what is happening when you plug in or unplug. The question is which breaker, and then we can look at why.

To figure out which breaker, reset one at a time.

The first circuit breaker in your panel is the power feed from external AC. Should be a 30 amp breaker, unless you have a 50 amp system. This breaker controls ALL AC power coming in.

The second breaker normally powers the converter. Unfortunately, the WFCO 8935 panel/converter OEM on my A-frame intentionally tied a second AC circuit onto the same breaker (It's covered in the WFCO manual, so I know it's a WFCO "feature" and not a Forest River mis-wiring.) In my particular case, Forest River tied the microwave or the fridge AC onto the same breaker as the converter - I forget which. When I installed the Progressive Dynamics replacement converter/panel, I added another breaker so the converter has the 2nd breaker to itself.

The question about what is on the second breaker is important because if that is the breaker that is tripping, the problem could be somewhere else besides the converter. Hopefully, your CB panel is labelled as to what does what. If it isn't, you are going to have to go breaker by breaker, and determine what works and what doesn't.

Based on your measurements and findings, a surge in one of the circuits when you plug in/unplug is likely the cause of the main or converter circuit breaker tripping. You may have a "weak" breaker, or you may have wiring issues. Make sure all AC appliances (microwave, air conditioner, anything plugged in to an outlet) are off when you plug in. Recommended procedure is to turn the breaker off at the shore power source, connect your power cord, then turn the source breaker on. Can't say I follow this at home, but I generally do at campgrounds. The more I think about it, the more I suspect you have a bad breaker for either power in (first CB) or converter (second CB). If the breaker is going bad, eventually you will not be able to reset and restore power.

If you don't know enough about electricity to understand what I have said, get an electrician to replace the breaker. If you are game, make sure ALL power is off (cord disconnected, battery disconnected) before replacing the breaker.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame with PD 4135 converter/panel, dual GC-2 Interstate batteries from Costco

[Kf4mnc]

Ok gang, thanks for all the help and insight. I think I finally have it all figured out. My issue was two fold with one part compounding the other.

Problem 1 - my volt meter was inaccurate. It basically died/froze yesterday. I had another cheap one (Harbor Freight) that I dug out and while I don’t trust is 100%, it’s numbers were making much more sense than the other meter.

Problem 2 - the connection to the negative terminal on the battery was a bit flakey. I believe this is from being bent when the lid to the box is put on. I took this apart and cleaned it up so there is better contact.

I’ll know if this fixes it after this weekend of camping. I’ll post the results when I return.

What i would really like to find is 90 degree battery terminals so the wire is not bent by the box lid. I checked a few parts stores, but no luck. Anyone have any idea?

Also, cheap but decent multi meter recommendations ?


Thanks for everyone’s help!

[Bama Rambler]

Do you have threaded or clamp on battery posts? You can buy "L" shape or right angle terminals for either kind of post you have. You can even buy an angled disconnect terminal for clamp on posts.

[babock]

Originally Posted by Kf4mnc

Ok gang, thanks for all the help and insight. I think I finally have it all figured out. My issue was two fold with one part compounding the other.

Problem 1 - my volt meter was inaccurate. It basically died/froze yesterday. I had another cheap one (Harbor Freight) that I dug out and while I don’t trust is 100%, it’s numbers were making much more sense than the other meter.

Problem 2 - the connection to the negative terminal on the battery was a bit flakey. I believe this is from being bent when the lid to the box is put on. I took this apart and cleaned it up so there is better contact.

I’ll know if this fixes it after this weekend of camping. I’ll post the results when I return.

What i would really like to find is 90 degree battery terminals so the wire is not bent by the box lid. I checked a few parts stores, but no luck. Anyone have any idea?

Also, cheap but decent multi meter recommendations ?


Thanks for everyone’s help!

I only buy fluke meters. You can get some for a little over $100.

[camaraderie]

"Also, cheap but decent multi meter recommendations ? "


Suggest you get an AC/DC Clamp meter so you can clamp on to see actual amp flow as you turn things on or off or check converter output etc...Here's one like I use. Just fine for casual use all over the RV & home. Around $50
https://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS211...mp+clamp+meter

[dperky]

I had the same problem turn out the converter was bad.