Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2020, 12:20 PM   #1
New Rooer
 
Roocrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 12
Battery system upgrade

Looking for suggestions:
I have a 2019 Roo 19 hybrid.
Iím looking to swap out my 2-12v lead batteries set up in series to a similar lith-ion setup to include an appropriate inverter to run all ac requirements and to set up the proper solar charging system. I am currently solar ready with a 12v 8a 40 watt standalone panel and factory installed charger built in the camper. Can I apply any of that equipment to my upgrading. I look forward to everyoneís input. Thanks!
Roocrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:09 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roocrew View Post
Looking for suggestions:
I have a 2019 Roo 19 hybrid.
Iím looking to swap out my 2-12v lead batteries set up in series to a similar lith-ion setup to include an appropriate inverter to run all ac requirements and to set up the proper solar charging system. I am currently solar ready with a 12v 8a 40 watt standalone panel and factory installed charger built in the camper. Can I apply any of that equipment to my upgrading. I look forward to everyoneís input. Thanks!
Are your batteries wired in series or is it actually parallel? Series would give you 24V.
__________________
2016 Mini-Lite 1905
2016 Ram 1500 QC 5.7 Hemi
7th day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
SlowrideHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 996
Battleborn LiFePo 12v battery's are about $1,000 each. You need a minimum of three probably to power something like an a/c (with a soft start) or a microwave, coffee maker, hair dryer. Add a Victron 3000 watt inverter, or similar and Victron battery monitor. You'll likely need about 500 watts of solar to try and replace the amps used from your battery bank, that will add another $1,000.
With careful shopping you may get into a useable solar system for $5K-6K that will supply what a 30 Amp shore connection will do, for a limited time anyway.
__________________

2016 F350 CC Dually Powerstroke 4x4
2014 Cedar Creek 34RLSA w/Level Up
2007 HD Ultra Classic 103
SlowrideHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:14 PM   #4
Trailer Park Supervisor
 
NJKris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 3,283
Slowride, I think you just destroyed his LiFePO4 dream. I think he meant AC power requirements, not Air Conditioning. Nobody with a lick of sense would try running air conditioning on batteries. I was looking into it myself until I realized I would want two batteries (2,000 bucks), plus expense of upgraded LiFePO4 converter.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
NJKris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:18 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
CincyGus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 878
Are you sure you mean Series? 2 12v's in Series means your running a 24v system?

Series increases Voltage, and Amp Hours stay the same.
Parallel increases Amp Hours and voltage stays the same.

On your solar, depending on your energy usage, 40 watt panel won't likely be enough to recharge your batteries. You're going to generate about 10-20 amps a day on average from a 40 watt panel which won't be much of a a dent in a 200+ AH system. I'm taking it from your comment "Similar system" that your going to setup 2 lithium batteries that your usage is pretty significant.

Do an energy study to see how much power your using on a typical day, make an addition for fudge factor (10-50%, depending on your budget) to give yourself some additional capabilities or faster recovery and then size the panels to exceed those needs based on expected AMP's produced, not their rated capacity as most panels only approach rated numbers in ideal conditions.
__________________
2020 Chevrolet 2500 LTZ, 2019 Forest River Wolfpack 23Pack15, 2014 EZGO Golf Cart.
CincyGus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:31 PM   #6
Trailer Park Supervisor
 
NJKris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 3,283
Found this stand alone converter, new from WFCO. Looks like it plugs into existing load center pretty easily. http://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-conten...Ion-Manual.pdf
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
NJKris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:46 PM   #7
Trailer Park Supervisor
 
NJKris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 3,283
I know people generally talk about Battle Born, but this Renogy battery is some powerhouse!!! And only a few hundred more than one 100ah Battle Born. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FDHRP45...07RYBLJF9?th=1
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
NJKris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 02:11 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
SlowrideHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKris View Post
Slowride, I think you just destroyed his LiFePO4 dream. I think he meant AC power requirements, not Air Conditioning. Nobody with a lick of sense would try running air conditioning on batteries. I was looking into it myself until I realized I would want two batteries (2,000 bucks), plus expense of upgraded LiFePO4 converter.
I was just trying to introduce some reality to his expectations. It seems too many folks think a suitcase panel and a pwm will give them the comforts of home, for free. (Not saying that is the case for him)

I can run an a/c at my cabin, but I have 16 T-105's!
__________________

2016 F350 CC Dually Powerstroke 4x4
2014 Cedar Creek 34RLSA w/Level Up
2007 HD Ultra Classic 103
SlowrideHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 02:37 PM   #9
Trailer Park Supervisor
 
NJKris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 3,283
Yeah, you're a horse of different color when it comes to off grid! For serious RV off-grid, I would do the lithium. With the Renogy batt I cited above (1268 bucks) and about 223 more for the converter plus tax, at least 1500 dollar investment, but you will have 170 usable amp hours, or close to it. I have 200w solar already. Either that, or my existing dual golf car batts. Can buy 4 sets of the golf cart batts at 300 bucks per set average for really decent ones. Decisions, decisions.....I think I would have to do some serious off-grid camping justify this one.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
NJKris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 04:49 PM   #10
New Rooer
 
Roocrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 12
First of all thanks for all the responses. Digesting all suggestions. Batteries- Series Iím sure. House + lead coming in to first battery+ terminal, jumper from - terminal to + terminal on second and - lead attached to - terminal on 2nd going back to house. I was alluding to alternating current ( a/c would be nice but not realistic) possibility of microwave use would be nice. Just wanted to get back to all who responded. Much thanks keep em coming!
Roocrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 04:57 PM   #11
Trailer Park Supervisor
 
NJKris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 3,283
Quote:
Batteries- Series Iím sure. House + lead coming in to first battery+ terminal, jumper from - terminal to + terminal on second and - lead attached to - terminal on 2nd going back to house.
That sure is a series connection. Will double voltage of individual batteries, keeping capacity same. If you have 12v batteries, that would make a 24v circuit. You sure you don't have 6v batteries?
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
NJKris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 05:12 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
SlowrideHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKris View Post
That sure is a series connection. Will double voltage of individual batteries, keeping capacity same. If you have 12v batteries, that would make a 24v circuit. You sure you don't have 6v batteries?
No doubt. He's bound to have a couple 6v batteries in series. My cabin inverter is a 48v inverter and I know that they do 24v inverters but you wouldn't have any 12v circuits with one.
__________________

2016 F350 CC Dually Powerstroke 4x4
2014 Cedar Creek 34RLSA w/Level Up
2007 HD Ultra Classic 103
SlowrideHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 06:36 PM   #13
New Rooer
 
Roocrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 12
Pretty sure Iím running 24 volt system now. Never thought about it Duh! I have 2 ultra power RV24 550 marine cranking amps w/ a reserve capacity 125 minutes @ 25 amps. Any ideas if you think Iíve done any damage as well.
Roocrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 06:05 PM   #14
New Rooer
 
Roocrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 12
Thumbs up

Decided to uncover the front of the trailer and open both battery boxes in the daylight. It is parallel, house + to #1 battery + terminal then jumper to #2 battery + term. - house to #1 battery- terminal then jumped to #2 battery- terminal. Thanks for all responses gonna see what I can put together
Roocrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 06:22 PM   #15
Trailer Park Supervisor
 
NJKris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 3,283
Your new screen name is hereby changed to "Series".
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
NJKris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 08:19 PM   #16
New Rooer
 
Roocrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 12
Seriesly!
Roocrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 01:57 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roocrew View Post
. . . . . possibility of microwave use would be nice. . . . . .
Here's a thought. Replace your microwave with a Panasonic inverter type. Mine was $90 on sale. Then cook/heat at half power (or less). Instead of cycling on/off at full power thus requiring 1350W intermittently, the inverter microwave will draw about 600W continuously at half power. It will take twice as long to heat your coffee, but who's in a hurry when camping. The reasons for doing this include:

1) One only needs a smaller inverter, mine is 900W but even smaller would work.

2) Drawing power from the battery at a lower level substantially reduces the battery energy that goes into heat in the battery ... so the battery charge lasts longer.

3) The smaller inverter will draw less "overhead" current (the current it draws whether it's used or not).

4) The inverter "load" losses will be lower (the heat generated in the inverter).

5) The inverter is less likely to kick off on low voltage since battery voltage drops less at the lower power level (this is an increasing problem as batteries age or when discharged to 50% (or both).

......... And most things cook more evenly at the lower power level. And oatmeal will not boil over on level 4.

We've had the 950W (cooking power) Panasonic Inverter microwave in our RV for five years ... and love it. Got the same unit for our home four years ago.
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 12V electric fridge
Hclarkx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 01:25 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 8,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
Here's a thought. Replace your microwave with a Panasonic inverter type. Mine was $90 on sale. Then cook/heat at half power (or less). Instead of cycling on/off at full power thus requiring 1350W intermittently, the inverter microwave will draw about 600W continuously at half power. It will take twice as long to heat your coffee, but who's in a hurry when camping. The reasons for doing this include:

1) One only needs a smaller inverter, mine is 900W but even smaller would work.

2) Drawing power from the battery at a lower level substantially reduces the battery energy that goes into heat in the battery ... so the battery charge lasts longer.

3) The smaller inverter will draw less "overhead" current (the current it draws whether it's used or not).

4) The inverter "load" losses will be lower (the heat generated in the inverter).

5) The inverter is less likely to kick off on low voltage since battery voltage drops less at the lower power level (this is an increasing problem as batteries age or when discharged to 50% (or both).

......... And most things cook more evenly at the lower power level. And oatmeal will not boil over on level 4.

We've had the 950W (cooking power) Panasonic Inverter microwave in our RV for five years ... and love it. Got the same unit for our home four years ago.

Puzzled.

How do you get MORE cooking power than is available from your inverter and how would a smaller yet inverter be OK?

Not questioning the technology, just where the cooking power is coming from if the supply is less.


FWIW, I think the "Inverter Microwave" is a good idea but the idea of installing a "just the right size power supply inverter is short sided.

I have two different sized inverters in my TT, one for TV and entertainment and one to run a freezer in my outside kitchen when I want to carry frozen foods for an extended trip. One is 650 watts and the other is a 1kw. When "idle" both have exactly the same overhead. Doesn't take much to operate the "electronics" on either when not under load. The big difference comes when the load hits and the current draw goes from <2 amp to around 75 amp or more.

If I were to do it again (and I may still do it) I'd install a single inverter that can not only run the largest single load (except Air Conditioning) but also run simultaneously other loads like Television, etc. Most inverters today come with remote controls and that "overhead" can be dealt with by simply pushing the button to turn the inverter OFF when not using it. Beats having to run around shutting devices off when ready to run the microwave

One more thought, which is less of a draw on a battery?

A few minutes at 1300 watts? (~65 watt hours)

OR

Twice as long at only 950 wattts? (~95 watt hours)

Lastly, with Lithium batteries, assuming proper wire size supplying inverter from batteries, the chance of a low voltage inverter shut down is unlikely. Unless of course the batteries are near dead.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"Sometimes you're the dog, sometimes you're the tree"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:12 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
Puzzled.

How do you get MORE cooking power than is available from your inverter and how would a smaller yet inverter be OK?

Not questioning the technology, just where the cooking power is coming from if the supply is less.
The Panasonic microwave is set at 1/2 power which equals 600 watts. The inverter is 950 watts. I don't see a problem there.
__________________

2007 Surveyor SV230
- 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 230 AH Battery Bank - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre - Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
boondocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:59 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 8,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by boondocking View Post
The Panasonic microwave is set at 1/2 power which equals 600 watts. The inverter is 950 watts. I don't see a problem there.
From your post:

Quote:
We've had the 950W (cooking power) Panasonic Inverter
Were you referring to the power of the microwave or inverter powering it?

When you said "950W (cooking power)" one certainly would conclude that that was at least the power the microwave would draw.

FWIW, my home's microwave only provides 1,000 watt cooking power but draws over 1300 watts of "running power".

Would be interesting to see what the label inside says for "Input Power" versus "Output Power". Only reference I see online for what I think is your Microwave is "Cooking Power" of 950 watts.

Again, not challenging the increased efficiency, just truing to wrap my brain around the numbers?

To Add:

Just found this for the Panasonic 950 W Inverter Microwave:

Quote:
Power

Requirements:
120V 60Hz;
10.2A, 1200 Watts;
AC only
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"Sometimes you're the dog, sometimes you're the tree"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, upgrade

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 AM.