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Old 01-04-2017, 05:13 PM   #1
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battery wiring: 1+1= 1 or 1+1=2

'17 Cedar Creek silverback 29RE. It has OEM the residential fridge and an inverter.

It came with 2 batteries, 1 connected to the inverter, the other connected to the house.

There is a OEM wiring diagram on the inside of the battery access door that shows the 2 batteries on a parallel circuit, in other words the 2 batteries are in now 1. But the dealer said it does not go that way.

Then another dealer said no must be in parallel or one of the batteries will NOT receive a charge so they must be in parallel to both be charged.

I have called Customer Svc and that individual thought it was parallel, but was not sure, so they forwarded my call which led to an answering machine and that call has yet to be returned in spite of two messages.

I need to roll next week and if I need a parallel connection then I need to fab up some battery cables ASAP.

The answer I am looking for: If you have the same setup, that is 2 batteries, a residental fridge installed at the factory and have the inverter and have 2 sets of wiring, one for the inverter which is only 2 wires and the other bundle which is a bunch of wires. Do you have a parallel 1+1 battery setup or do you have it set up like they did mine, inverter wires to one battery, the rest of the wiring on the other battery. ????


[in my mind I wonder about how the inverter battery is getting charged as only the inverter cables are attached to it. I have run a similar system, but on a different brand, Arctic Fox and those batteries were in parallel, but there was NOT a residential fridge, but I did have an inverter]
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Old 01-04-2017, 06:48 PM   #2
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Batteries wired in parallel have the same voltage with increased amperage (capacity).


Batteries wired in series result in double voltage. If you have two 12 volt batteries, wiring them in series would fry your 12 volt powered equipment and appliances.
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Old 01-04-2017, 06:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Oaks View Post

[in my mind I wonder about how the inverter battery is getting charged as only the inverter cables are attached to it. I have run a similar system, but on a different brand, Arctic Fox and those batteries were in parallel, but there was NOT a residential fridge, but I did have an inverter]
It sounds like they wanted to isolate one battery so the fridge couldn't drain away all your power, but from your description of the setup, it doesn't sound like it would receive a charge from the converter.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Skyliner View Post
Batteries wired in parallel have the same voltage with increased amperage (capacity).


Batteries wired in series result in double voltage. If you have two 12 volt batteries, wiring them in series would fry your 12 volt powered equipment and appliances.
Sky, I appreciate that, I really do. But I really am not asking about wiring in series (I do know it doubles the voltage).

I am just trying to find out how this should be set up: As 2 separate batteries as the dealer did (supposedly because of the inverter for the fridge) or do I do a parallel setup and put the inverter and house all together on the 2 in parallel.

I am hoping someone out there who has a residential house fridge on and inverter can tell me how they or the dealer did it.

I am an engineer and I am smart enough to know to ask about something I do not know a whole lot about since I am not a EE. In my thinking they should be in parallel with both house and inverter wires attached across the 2 batteries. Even Cedar Creek could not answer the question???

I don't want to build a set of battery cables for a parallel setup if not needed, plus its expensive build them.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by banda View Post
It sounds like they wanted to isolate one battery so the fridge couldn't drain away all your power, but from your description of the setup, it doesn't sound like it would receive a charge from the converter.
That is what I am thinking, just don't want to hook it all up in parallel and see smoke...
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:56 PM   #6
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If the positive post on one battery is connected to the positive post on the other battery and the negative post on one battery is connected to the negative post on the other battery they are connected in parallel. Then both will receive a charge from the converter.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:22 PM   #7
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If the positive post on one battery is connected to the positive post on the other battery and the negative post on one battery is connected to the negative post on the other battery they are connected in parallel. Then both will receive a charge from the converter.
Thank you, but while I know very little I do know that. That is really not the question.

I make and install battery cables for single, dual, dual remote and extreme battery setups on cars with special needs. My battery cables are the best so know the basics, what I don't know is the intent of what Cedar Creek wanted on this install, I almost get a different answer every time I ask someone, so I have turned to this forum for help.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:40 PM   #8
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Mine has the same setup and it came wired parallel.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Oaks View Post
Thank you, but while I know very little I do know that. That is really not the question.

.....what I don't know is the intent of what Cedar Creek wanted on this install, I almost get a different answer every time I ask someone, so I have turned to this forum for help.
OK, I am not quite sure then exactly what you are asking about.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by boondocking View Post
OK, I am not quite sure then exactly what you are asking about.
He is asking how or if both batteries are being charged by the converter if they are each wired independent. I would say probably not. I would think one set of wires go to the inverter and one set go to the converter/house. I would wire like the factory wiring diagram shows, in parallel.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traindrv View Post
Mine has the same setup and it came wired parallel.
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalford View Post
He is asking how or if both batteries are being charged by the converter if they are each wired independent. I would say probably not. I would think one set of wires go to the inverter and one set go to the converter/house. I would wire like the factory wiring diagram shows, in parallel.
Thank you

Both have confirmed what I thought, just did not want to run it in parallel and have it go up in smoke when I put it together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boondocking View Post
OK, I am not quite sure then exactly what you are asking about.
Just trying to get a confirmation on how it should be set up as the way the dealer did it did not jive with my thinking, but I have a dislike for electricity because I cannot see it except when it works the light bulb is lit and if it don't it goes up in smoke.

I do appreciate every one's contribution....
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:19 PM   #12
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Battery cables:

The 2 reds + and the big black - I made



I use 2 gauge welding wire, solid copper connectors, all connections are soldered in using a soldier bullet



some of the connects are silver plated over copper, depends upon what I am connecting to.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:51 PM   #13
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Unwanted advice follows.....

If I had your camper, I'd do the following:

Wire both batteries in parallel but make them switch selectable using a marine battery selector switch. This way you have added capacity when you need it and a backup battery when you don't. Also gives you the ability, if you don't already have it, to disconnect batteries when not using the camper. https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-9001...QQQTS2YKW3GRZ4

Get rid of the rats nest with all wiring attached to your batteries. Install a battery bus bar instead and only have one cable to each battery terminal. Will make removal and/or maintenance easier. Here is an example: Dual 4 Point Power Distribution Block / Busbar

Wire a 300 amp inline fuse to each battery as close to terminals as possible for safety reasons.


Buy a triple rate converter (charger) such as Progressive Dynamics one with a pendant charger. Wire it within 3 feet of your batteries to minimize losses and charge your batteries faster.

Wish list for your setup:
Fridge takes a lot of juice. Consider minimum of 2 battery banks consisting of two 6v golf cart batteries in each bank. The premium GC batteries at Sam's Club are rated for 232 amp-hours. Two banks would give you 464 amp-hours of capacity; plenty of capacity for a long tow to your camp site.
If you have a truck with a high capacity alternator or dual alternators with spare capacity, consider running 0 or 00 gauge wire directly from the TV's battery terminal to a quick disconnect that feeds your camper. This way your fridge will receive alternator power that feeds your fridge via your inverter. Stock wiring used for towing just doesn't cut it and can't supply the voltage and current needed to keep your from discharging your battery.

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Old 01-04-2017, 09:52 PM   #14
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Batteries

I also have a system with a house refrigerator run off an inverter and 2 batteries to give you more capacity.
Remember the batteries charge off the tow vehicle while driving/towing.
I have 2-12V batteries connected in parallel using regular automotive battery cables.
It works fine and both batteries charge while towing or plugged into shore power.
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Oaks View Post

[in my mind I wonder about how the inverter battery is getting charged as only the inverter cables are attached to it. I have run a similar system, but on a different brand, Arctic Fox and those batteries were in parallel, but there was NOT a residential fridge, but I did have an inverter]
The inverter you have must be an inverter/charger. When you are not running off shore power the inverter powers the fridge. When connected to shore power the inverter sends the shore power directly to the fridge and charges the battery at the same time.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:21 AM   #16
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Before you installed the two short cables to tie them together in parallel, did you measure the voltage at each battery when plugged into shore power to see if they were both getting a charge voltage of 13.2 or more? Hard to believe that the battery for the converter/refer wasn't getting a charge or it would have been dead very quickly.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:44 AM   #17
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The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
the above link called the 12 volt side of life Part 1 & 2 is a very good read and will explain a lot on how to hook up the batterys

Hope This Helps Tim
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:39 AM   #18
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17 Oaks...nice job, the double terminals at first gave me a start, but they are just another way for side or top connections on DieHards. Should work although I wonder about all those directly connected loads and whether they are fused or not. It looks like you have a xantrex so the lines that supply the inverter also are used for charging when connected to shore power. Parallelling them should do the trick although I would put the positive to the Xantrex on one battery and the negative on the other if it is not that way as shown. Can't tell with all the extra directly connected loads. that way the xantrex will load and charge both batteries equally.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:48 AM   #19
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I would not trust what a dealer tells you in this regard. Email the factory and get their written response.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skyliner View Post
Unwanted advice follows.....

If I had your camper, I'd do the following:

Wire both batteries in parallel but make them switch selectable using a marine battery selector switch. This way you have added capacity when you need it and a backup battery when you don't. Also gives you the ability, if you don't already have it, to disconnect batteries when not using the camper. https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-9001...QQQTS2YKW3GRZ4

Get rid of the rats nest with all wiring attached to your batteries. Install a battery bus bar instead and only have one cable to each battery terminal. Will make removal and/or maintenance easier. Here is an example: Dual 4 Point Power Distribution Block / Busbar

Wire a 300 amp inline fuse to each battery as close to terminals as possible for safety reasons.


Buy a triple rate converter (charger) such as Progressive Dynamics one with a pendant charger. Wire it within 3 feet of your batteries to minimize losses and charge your batteries faster.

Wish list for your setup:
Fridge takes a lot of juice. Consider minimum of 2 battery banks consisting of two 6v golf cart batteries in each bank. The premium GC batteries at Sam's Club are rated for 232 amp-hours. Two banks would give you 464 amp-hours of capacity; plenty of capacity for a long tow to your camp site.
If you have a truck with a high capacity alternator or dual alternators with spare capacity, consider running 0 or 00 gauge wire directly from the TV's battery terminal to a quick disconnect that feeds your camper. This way your fridge will receive alternator power that feeds your fridge via your inverter. Stock wiring used for towing just doesn't cut it and can't supply the voltage and current needed to keep your from discharging your battery.

Drew
US Army Vet, not a crunchie
Good advice, I no longer have that Truck Camper, great unit, had since '09 and just sold it a few months ago. Paid $22.5 for it and just sold it for $19 with 4 backup full price offers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein View Post
17 Oaks...nice job, the double terminals at first gave me a start, but they are just another way for side or top connections on DieHards. Should work although I wonder about all those directly connected loads and whether they are fused or not. It looks like you have a xantrex so the lines that supply the inverter also are used for charging when connected to shore power. Parallelling them should do the trick although I would put the positive to the Xantrex on one battery and the negative on the other if it is not that way as shown. Can't tell with all the extra directly connected loads. that way the xantrex will load and charge both batteries equally.
One of my challenges in this setup is the fact the drawer ONLY holds 2 Grp 31's and there is no room for anything else and being a Truck Camper you can do some mods to get other batteries in, but they complex as space is such a premium.

How those 2 batteries are wired are exactly how it came from the factory my only mods were to replace some of the OEM cabling.

A word on battery cables, I do not use Auto grade cables, I use only welding grade. WHY? Welding grade is finer wire for the same size of cable as a result there are 2 benefits. Flexibility and amperage capacity. Due to the finer wire it very flexible and you can make some tight turns, it has about a 20% increase in amperage capacity for the same gauge as auto grade.

I have built a lot of custom setups and while expensive is well worth it if you have big amperage requirements, off road needs etc.
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