|
12-05-2020, 09:46 AM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 530
|
Camper Breaker NOT Tripping
Hi all,
I need some electrical schooling here to understand what is going on to make sure I'm not harming anything. Any help would be appreciated.
I have the trailer plugged into the 50 amp pedestal using a 30 amp dog bone. The power line goes like this: pedestal -> dog bone -> Hughes Autoformer -> Hughes Power Watchdog -> Camper. Camper is 30 amp. First time using the Power Watchdog.
The Power Watchdog shuts down the power if I exceed 30 amps. I tested it today and saw a rise to about 35 amps on the PWD app before it tripped.
My question is this: why isn't the camper circuit tripping if it exceeded 30 amps? And will that cause damage in the long run to either the camper or the PWD?
Thanks.
__________________
2019 Heritage Glen LTZ 272RL
2018 Ram 2500 CTD
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 10:26 AM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,054
|
because the watchdog is before trailer breaker like a Gfi.
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 10:33 AM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 9,230
|
My question would be.... why are you not concerned that the PWD waits til 35 amps to trip? Isn't that supposed to protect your rig from amps over 30?
__________________
2015 Dynamax REV 24TB class C
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 10:41 AM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 530
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas ho
because the watchdog is before trailer breaker like a Gfi.
|
But the camper circuit breaker is between it and the stuff in the camper.
__________________
2019 Heritage Glen LTZ 272RL
2018 Ram 2500 CTD
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 10:42 AM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 530
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird
My question would be.... why are you not concerned that the PWD waits til 35 amps to trip? Isn't that supposed to protect your rig from amps over 30?
|
That was part of my question. I thought it was more implied than that.
__________________
2019 Heritage Glen LTZ 272RL
2018 Ram 2500 CTD
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 11:02 AM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
Posts: 3,484
|
Most breakers are not highly accurate instruments that immediately trip at their rated capacity. I've seen them take a bit of time above rated capacity before they trip. I've also seen the opposite where they trip early.
__________________
Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Keystone Loredo 290SRL
2019 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins crew cab
Andersen hitch
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 11:13 AM
|
#7
|
Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,301
|
Most likely the reason is that the Power watchdog is an electrical device with an instantaneous trigger point, while the breaker is a heat activated mechanical device that is not as fast acting. If you remove the watchdog and run the same load it will most likely trip the breaker.
__________________
2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 11:34 AM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 530
|
Makes sense. Thanks all.
__________________
2019 Heritage Glen LTZ 272RL
2018 Ram 2500 CTD
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 01:17 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,621
|
Flybob is right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob
Most likely the reason is that the Power watchdog is an electrical device with an instantaneous trigger point, while the breaker is a heat activated mechanical device that is not as fast acting. If you remove the watchdog and run the same load it will most likely trip the breaker.
|
Flybob is right! In the summer of 1967 I had a co-op job (called intern now) as an electrical engineer consultant to architectural firms doing large building designs. I read a bunch of breaker specifications.
A typical breaker spec would read something like - Time to trip at 1000% overcurrent: 25-200 milliseconds
- Time to trip at 120% overcurrent 20-60 minutes.
These aren't exact numbers, just something similar to how circuit breakers are specified.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 01:40 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 648
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier
Makes sense. Thanks all.
|
I am no electrician. But just because the trailer is receiving a little more to the breakers would not make them trip until you put a draw on the breaker.
Maybe the electricians in the group could verify this for me.
And you inline will not pass through more than the 30 amps so it breaks first.
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 03:44 PM
|
#11
|
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 44
|
Being an electrician for 30+ years, I can say that breakers are designed to handle an over current situation for a short period of time. Your Watchdog is most likely designed with tighter tolerances.
__________________
1999 Forest River - Sandpiper
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 04:29 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 530
|
Good info. Learned something today. Thanks.
__________________
2019 Heritage Glen LTZ 272RL
2018 Ram 2500 CTD
|
|
|
12-05-2020, 05:24 PM
|
#13
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 59
|
A breaker trips on heat caused by over amp draw or short circuit. A good breaker and cool weather will allow a 30 amp breaker to draw 35 amps for a while. No way to determine exactly how long because it depends on name brand of breaker and amp draw and ambient temperatures and a lot of other conditions.
Your trailer wiring should handle the amp draw without harming the wires. The wiring is probably rated for 35 amps in the trailer anyway. Romex is probably what is in the trailer and even though number ten romex is rated for 30 amps the inner insulation is probably thhn or twhn which used as a single conductor in conduit is rated for 35 amps when calculating the derate on the wire. All this to say no worries. you also have individual circuit breaker protection with your trailer panel. You are more likely to have a surge from the pedestal you plug into hence the protection you are using to prevent that.
|
|
|
12-06-2020, 02:45 AM
|
#14
|
Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,891
|
I know that I have read on here that the Progressive Industries amp meter reads higher than the actual amps being used (like you take 1/3 off of the total displayed). Is it possible that your Watchdog is the same?
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
|
|
|
12-06-2020, 10:14 AM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
|
I have never read that and mine is very accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ependydad
I know that I have read on here that the Progressive Industries amp meter reads higher than the actual amps being used (like you take 1/3 off of the total displayed). Is it possible that your Watchdog is the same?
|
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
|
|
|
12-06-2020, 01:21 PM
|
#16
|
Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,891
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrjet
I have never read that and mine is very accurate.
|
Here it is. Hondaman reported that his was off and that PI indicated it was just an estimate:
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...-a-164111.html
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|