convert GeoPro to Lithium

[stecz]

I have a Geo Pro camper with factory solar panel (100watts?), gp power solar controller (GP-FWM-30-UL) and a WFCO WF-8735P power converter (shorepower side of the equation). I've had durability issues with lead acid deep cycles and I've pretty much decided to just convert to Lithium.

The solar controller has a lithium setting, so I'm good there, but the power converter is not lithium compatible. My understanding is that is not an issue, I just won't fully charge the lithiums, on shore power, but th solar controller will top them up.

Right now, I have 2 deep cycle batteries in the factory box (although they are both dead at this point). My plan is to spread out the cost by doing this in stages.

Stage 1 - swap the 2 lead acids for a single lithium battery. This should give me roughly the same power as the 2 lead acids at 1/4 the weight.

Stage 2 - add a second lithium battert

Stage 3 - add more solar, probably just fold up panels to plug into the existing plug on the camper

Stage 4 - maybe do something crazy like convert to a 12v AC and 2 more batteries, so I can use the A/C off grid.

Any recommended battery vendors to look at?

thanks.

[tomkatb]

My guess. You do not own a battery monitor and have damaged the batteries.

Flying while blind.

I would plan on installing the biggest lithium batteries possible. You should never mix brands or generations of batteries. Buy something with a battery monitor.

I like SOK with heaters. Good to 0 degrees. My batteries have been thru three generations in 6 years. Mine match. Same on solar.

Operating ac on batteries requires a huge battery bank. You likely need near 100 ah per hour. A ton. Plus a big inverter. During power failures we use the exhaust fans. Not air conditioning.

Plan ahead. Mistakes can be costly.

Solar is tricky. You can usually get 25 ah per 100 watt panel. On the best days, not most. Is your roof big enough?

[stecz]

I just have what the camper came with, so I guess no dedicated battery monitor. The solar controller will tell me amount of charge, etc.

I guess one thing to look at is getting a batter monitor, I will probably base that on the brand of batteries I end up going with.

The Eco pro has one solar panel mounted on the roof, I'm probably not going to add any additional solar on the roof, issue one being, it's only a 20ft camper, so not much room, the second being, I don't want to add more holes, so I'll probably just plug solar into the existing outside plug.

Running A/C on batteries is more of pipe dream, but would be cool.

So the question still is... can I just swap over to a single lithium to replace my lead acids without doing anything else? (If I can run the fridge and the furnace all night, I'll call that a success).

[tomkatb]

It depends.

One 100 ah lithium battery has roughly 80 ah.

Two gc2 batteries have about 120 ah available. Two car/marine batteries could be less.

After the sun goes down running the fridge and furnace will deplete either battery set in a night sometime. Furnaces use a ton.

A 200 ah battery would last a night, possibly, not probably two. It depends.

It is dependent on the skipper. Frugal!

I assume you know that using a wet cell battery you cannot go below 12 volts., You can, but it damages the battery.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by stecz

I just have what the camper came with, so I guess no dedicated battery monitor. The solar controller will tell me amount of charge, etc.

I guess one thing to look at is getting a batter monitor, I will probably base that on the brand of batteries I end up going with.

The Eco pro has one solar panel mounted on the roof, I'm probably not going to add any additional solar on the roof, issue one being, it's only a 20ft camper, so not much room, the second being, I don't want to add more holes, so I'll probably just plug solar into the existing outside plug.

Running A/C on batteries is more of pipe dream, but would be cool.

So the question still is... can I just swap over to a single lithium to replace my lead acids without doing anything else? (If I can run the fridge and the furnace all night, I'll call that a success).

You put GeoPro in your thread title and in the first post.
Now you're saying EcoPro. There is an Epro but not an EcoPro.
Which is it?

Since you didn't post this in the Rockwood or Flagstaff sub-forum but in the General Tech and Repair section, no one probably knows what kind of battery monitor yours has(if any).
I know that Rockwood and Flagstaff are twin brands but it would help if you clarified which one.

[jlankford]

My r-pod is only a 19ft trailer, and there's room for 800 watts of solar on the roof. 600W is mounted, and there's room for one more 200W panel. So, you may want to look again. As you expand solar your may want to replace the 100W panel with a 200W to have better use of the real estate on your roof.

Don't plan to use your solar controller to know the battery charge. It only looks at battery voltage, and with Lithium it's difficult to know what the actual state of charge is with only a voltage reading. You should plan to add a battery shunt monitor.

If you have a 12V fridge and want to run your furnace, I suggest you replace the two LA batteries with two Lithium in the same box and go ahead and start out with 200Ah. I upgraded to 300Ah of Lithium, but have since concluded that 200Ah would have been enough if we weren't using the inverter for luxuries.

[IPcamper]

To give you some data on usage, we have a 2022 Surveyor 19BHLE. We have a Norcold 12V DC fridge. I measured our power usage while camping at the beach for a week a couple of years ago. The fridge, lights, vent fan, water pump, charging phones on USB, etc ... used about 80Ah every 24 hours.
Our trailer came with a 80W solar panel and 2 lead acid batteries, that could last maybe a day at most. Before the beach trip, I replaced the 80W panel on the roof with a 150W panel, and paired the 80W panel with a Renogy 100W suitcase panel. This gave us 330W of Roof and Ground solar panels. For storage, I replaced the lead acid batteries with 2 - 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries. I use a Renogy shunt to monitor the batteries. On a sunny day, the batteries would be fully recharged by noon. This setup lets us dry dry camp for 2.5 days without any charging, This lets us get through a rainy day without problems.

Ground panels need to be setup and moved to get best results, and take up some space while traveling. The advantage is that they let you park in the shade to keep the trailer cooler, while the panels can be set in the sun.

[Aussieguy]

For NON power hungry 12v users .... that have no heavy Inverter usage
just running normal camping stuff such as 12v fridge and furnace etc.

if you get a good system on the roof around 600-800w and it finishes charging by noon-2pm............ you can take advantage of afternoon shade.

shaded panels, may reduce the power coming into to the RV
BUT it will more than likely still provide enough power to stop any further battery discharge until sundown

I see this effect each morning... and afternoon when some neighbors shade is making me loose precious charging time.... how dare they not cut down their 50 foot trees!

Then I realized... who cares the battery is back to 100%
---------------------------------------------------------------

Shade all day... ummmmm yeah you got a problem
1) pull out generator or mooch dock
2) move to a better spot
3) deploy the ground panels
--------------------------------------------------------------


Running AC
you need to get an efficient 400-1000w a/c ..... to be able run it off solar/battery
some of those 12v systems will pull 90amps of 12v just over 1000w not great


look for a/c such as mini split or the newer style roof models that have variable speed

[NJKris]

Into my 6th year with a pair of Deka golf cart batts I started with and only the 100w panel on roof. My propane fridge doesn't use a lot of power when off shore power. Biggest draw is probably running my CPAP all night, but that is low draw, no need to use humidification/heated stuff here in the east. My GoPower solar controller only went as low as 70% after 3 nights of boondocking, and wasn't getting much sun leading up to and through remnants of Debby.


I have a LiFePO4 battery I intend to install under sofa as a 'battery bank 2'. When FLA batts finally go bad, I'll replace them with another LiFePO4. I do not intend to replace converter charger. The solar controller will top off that last 10%.


6 years into this, the solar controller readout has been good enough to assess general state of charge. You have to remember with true deep cycle FLAs, you want to stay above 50% SOC (state of charge) to maximize battery life, but they can be taken as low as 20% as long as that is not a constant thing and are recharged soon after without much detriment. If you've ever let your batteries 'go dead', it damages them, and may be why you are not having longevity with you FLAs.

[stecz]

I made my question too complicated
This is a geopro e20bhs camper
it has a go power solar controller (GP-FWM-30-UL) and a WFCO WF-8735P box for A/C power

Really what I want to know is, can I swap out my two FLA batteries, for a single LiFePO4 battery for now and then upgrade to a second one at a later date? Is there any other equipment I need to add? (sounds like a battery monitor, although most LiFePO4 batteries seem to have that built-in).

A/C and the rest of it can come later.

[XSquid]

The answer to your question is YES. Don't let perfect get in the way of good enough.

I recently picked up a new Mini Lite 2205 and installed 2 100ah batteries with Bluetooth vice ever buying the lead acid batteries from the dealer. I did a test at a local site that has full hook ups and never connected to power while using only one of the batteries. I do have a single 200W panel, so I will assume that with a single 100W you will take longer to charge, but it is night and day having the lithium vs my old trailer with LA batteries.... and no, I did not have a battery monitor.

Jim

[stecz]

thanks, I'm going to figure out a short list of batteries to go with and contact them directly to triple check...

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by stecz

I made my question too complicated
This is a geopro e20bhs camper
it has a go power solar controller (GP-FWM-30-UL) and a WFCO WF-8735P box for A/C power

Really what I want to know is, can I swap out my two FLA batteries, for a single LiFePO4 battery for now and then upgrade to a second one at a later date? Is there any other equipment I need to add? (sounds like a battery monitor, although most LiFePO4 batteries seem to have that built-in).

A/C and the rest of it can come later.

There's a ton of info on the site already about upgrading to LiFePO4. The
A/C power box is called the inverter, btw. If the cable run from the battery is longer than where it is now, you may need heavier cable depending on the distance. You don't need additional equipment. The battery charger on shore power is part of the converter. It does not go high enough voltage output to completely charge a LiFePO4, but it will take them up to about 90%. The GoPower solar controller can be programmed for different battery chemistries, including LiFePO4, check the owner's manual. Different years iterations have different ways of doing so. That will allow your solar panel to bring you all the way up to 100%.


The Li batteries have something called BMS (Battery management system). It does things like not allow charging when it gets down to freezing. Newer ones have bluetooth sometimes, and maybe you can see your battery data.


If you really want to keep spending money, you can upgrade your converter to LiFePO4 capable, that would charge your battery all the way to 100% without the need for solar to do it, or just buy a cheap LiFePO4 charger you can plug in and do it that way.

[rsdata]

Originally Posted by stecz

thanks, I'm going to figure out a short list of batteries to go with and contact them directly to triple check...

try Li-Time
I would bite the bullet and buy QTY tWO NOW for compatibility reasons... adding one later runs the risk of not getting a fully compatible battery in the future...

Good review on Li-Time from Will Prowse on his youtube channel

[Aussieguy]

You can ........... buy the batteries at different times and add them together
the main rule is buy similar capacity and charge each old and new....to 100%
then connect them together

optional but a good idea........... is to allow them to sit connected together for a a while before starting to use them .... let them get equalized in parallel


small differences in wiring and lugs and switches etc etc may make one get out of balance so it is worthwhile you get batteries with Bluetooth so you can see if they charge up nicely together

some BMS now come with a setting to allow LONGER balancing of the cells inside
some batteries are now offering ACTIVE balancers.. which is even better


if you don't stress the batteries a lot ... big inverter user you should be OK with budget batteries

If you can get them at same time.. avoid some worries
Mine are now only $175.00 each on amazon ... includes bluetooth
I am happy with them they supply all the 12v I need
if they only last half the stated time (5 years or so ) I would be more than pleased

you can get 2x 100ah = 350.00 https://www.amazon.com/Elfhub-Blueto...mr_ca_hp_atf_d

Or a single 200ah 200amp discharge BMS + bluetooth = $339
https://www.amazon.com/Elfhub-LiFePO...3557853&sr=8-7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you GO single battery make sure it can discharge enough for your heaviest loads
Inverter + microwave + hair dryer will be way too much load for a 100ah battery

[tomkatb]

It is generally a bad idea to mix battery brands and generations. So be careful. My lithium batteries have been thru three generations. Here it is different bms’s.

You should make them separate banks if you do. Sometimes it matters.

The answer to you question is in post #4.

Performance depends on what you are running. Everybody is different.

In our case we travel in the cool months. The DW loves to boondock. We do not use the inverter. I have a cpap. We use our furnace. Solar does not work real well in the Midwest. Too many clouds and trees.

Comparing batteries is sort of hard. Best of luck. Cheap is not always better.

I read specs for a living in a former life. I would want the best cells and a picture of the battery interior.

[jlankford]

Originally Posted by rsdata

try Li-Time
I would bite the bullet and buy QTY tWO NOW for compatibility reasons... adding one later runs the risk of not getting a fully compatible battery in the future...

Good review on Li-Time from Will Prowse on his youtube channel

If you go with LiTime (which I recommend), make sure you get a model that has the low-temperature protection feature. Not all of them do - read the model specs carefully. You don't need to waste money on the self-heating feature, IMO, but you do want the BMS to prevent charging in sub-freezing temperatures.

[jlankford]

Originally Posted by NJKris

...The A/C power box is called the inverter, btw...


...The battery charger on shore power is part of the converter. It does not go high enough voltage output to completely charge a LiFePO4, but it will take them up to about 90%...

The A/C he's talking about is air conditioning, not 120VAC. There hasn't been a mention of wanting an inverter in this thread.

Regarding a non-LFP converter, the WFCO converters will get a LFP battery to 100%, albeit very slowly. The 13.6VDC absorption charging voltage of the WFCO converter's lead-acid profile will effectively trickle-charge a LFP battery to 100%. Mine has been doing so for over a year, before I finally got the converter to operate in LFP mode. Based on shunt monitor measurements, a battery bank charged to full with a dedicated LFP charger, will be returned to the same 100% full level when using only the WFCO non-LFP converter.

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by jlankford

The A/C he's talking about is air conditioning, not 120VAC. There hasn't been a mention of wanting an inverter in this thread.

Regarding a non-LFP converter, the WFCO converters will get a LFP battery to 100%, albeit very slowly. The 13.6VDC absorption charging voltage of the WFCO converter's lead-acid profile will effectively trickle-charge a LFP battery to 100%. Mine has been doing so for over a year, before I finally got the converter to operate in LFP mode. Based on shunt monitor measurements, a battery bank charged to full with a dedicated LFP charger, will be returned to the same 100% full level when using only the WFCO non-LFP converter.

I thought he was referring to an inverter with this statement:

This is a geopro e20bhs camper
it has a go power solar controller (GP-FWM-30-UL) and a WFCO WF-8735P box for A/C power

[jlankford]

Originally Posted by NJKris

I thought he was referring to an inverter with this statement:

I missed that. I'll assume that was a typo since in his first post he knew that box is a Converter:

"I have a Geo Pro camper with factory solar panel (100watts?), gp power solar controller (GP-FWM-30-UL) and a WFCO WF-8735P power converter (shorepower side of the equation)."