Converter and Reverse Polarity

[ScottBrownstein]

OK...this is getting like "who is on first?"

Don't care about the pole, we care about the ground connection in the receptacle.

Take the cover off the receptacle and visually inspect all 3 connections. S/B a white, a black and a green or bare copper wire. Black is hot, white is neutral and green or bare is the ground. Carefully take a voltmeter probe and put it one on black and the other on green. Should read 120 volts. Probe on Black and probe on white should read 120 volts. Anything else is BAD! Might need an electrician.

I suspect the ground is either missing (hard to believe) or the connection to the receptacle is broken or missing. Fix that and you are all set. Don't fix that and you can't use the surge protector. As I said, if you take the surge protector to another working 120 volt receptacle, put on an RV to 110 adaptor, and plug it in. If it's happy, the surge protector is fine.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by AndyA

Response from Southwire:



Am I understanding this right that if the fingers are spread apart on the neutral then leakage current goes to ground, but because I have an open ground it create a hot skin condition?

It was difficult for me to measure the voltage on the metal pole of the pedestal because of rust but I did momentarily get a reading of 101V.

Andy

No. If you have a bad or open neutral, current doesn't go anywhere! Nothing in your RV connects any loads between the ground and the hot. Just that nothing will work.

If you have a hot skin, you have no ground or a very bad ground...and something in the RV that is leaking hot to ground. Takes both problems to cause hot skin. Normally it would blow a breaker if the leakage was high enough. It would also blow a GFCI if you have some.

[AndyA]

Larry - what I am trying to understand here is why connecting the surge protector causes a voltage on the metal pole of the pedestal and on my trailer frame. Without the surge protector I don't have either of those.

Southwire have offered the additional information that spreading the contacts of the surge protector apart can cause this. But how does that work exactly?

I understand where the ground and neutral should be tied together.

Neutral on the pedestal appeared to be fine to me.

[AndyA]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

and something in the RV that is leaking hot to ground. Takes both problems to cause hot skin.

Right, that is my understanding, so how come the pole on the pedestal was live only when the surge protector is connected (and NO RV connected!). Means there is a leak in the surge protector?

Thanks! Andy

Note - pedestal is 400 miles away from where I am now. I will perform a continuity test on the surge protector as suggested to get confidence it is working OK for our next camping trip (to a campground) on Monday.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by AndyA

Right, that is my understanding, so how come the pole on the pedestal was live only when the surge protector is connected (and NO RV connected!). Means there is a leak in the surge protector?

Thanks! Andy

Note - pedestal is 400 miles away from where I am now. I will perform a continuity test on the surge protector as suggested to get confidence it is working OK for our next camping trip (to a campground) on Monday.

OK. let's start again. Are you saying that there is no hot skin without the surge protector, but the RV has power without the surge protector? Sounds like it.

So, measure the voltages on the receptacle Hot to neutral and Hot to ground.

Now plug in the surge protector and measure the same things on its output.

Hot to Neutral should read 110 to 120 (if it doesn't you have a bad neutral)
Hot to ground should read 110 to 120 (if it doesn't you have a bad ground)
Neutral to ground should be less than a couple of volts. (only a problem if it is too high.)

If the connection is poor to the neutral because of "spread contacts" you will read a lower Hot to Neutral (or nothing) but still should read 120 hot to ground and who knows about neutral to ground.

if you measure anything different on the surge protector...it is bad! It should only disconnect or warn you, not move things around.

OK?

Now I may hae misunderstood the "pole" on the pedestal and what hot meant. are you saying that when you plug in the surge protector the metal pole on the pedestal goes hot? Relative to what...the neutral. If so you have a bad pedestal and a bad surge protector. Metal pole can't go hot if it is grounded, no matter what. So guess it is not grounded (problem) and the surge protector is leaking between the hot and the ground. (both are required). If that is the case, You must be lucky...bet the lottery today.

[AndyA]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

OK. let's start again. Are you saying that there is no hot skin without the surge protector, but the RV has power without the surge protector? Sounds like it.

Yes.

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

So, measure the voltages on the receptacle Hot to neutral and Hot to ground.

Now plug in the surge protector and measure the same things on its output.

Hot to Neutral should read 110 to 120 (if it doesn't you have a bad neutral)
Hot to ground should read 110 to 120 (if it doesn't you have a bad ground)
Neutral to ground should be less than a couple of volts. (only a problem if it is too high.)

If the connection is poor to the neutral because of "spread contacts" you will read a lower Hot to Neutral (or nothing) but still should read 120 hot to ground and who knows about neutral to ground.

if you measure anything different on the surge protector...it is bad! It should only disconnect or warn you, not move things around.

OK?

Understood - can't do it now because the pedestal is 400 miles away but I get the process. Many thanks!

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Now I may hae misunderstood the "pole" on the pedestal and what hot meant. are you saying that when you plug in the surge protector the metal pole on the pedestal goes hot? Relative to what...the neutral.

Yes. With surge protector in when I touched the pole with my fingers it was a distinctly unpleasant tingling feeling. More than just a few volts. With the surge protector removed, no tingling.

I did try to measure the pole relative to the neutral on the pedestal and it was erratic, 30V - 101V. I didn't get a good reading.

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

If so you have a bad pedestal and a bad surge protector. Metal pole can't go hot if it is grounded, no matter what. So guess it is not grounded (problem) and the surge protector is leaking between the hot and the ground. (both are required). If that is the case, You must be lucky...bet the lottery today.

It's rural Mexico so it's possible the metal pole is not grounded. Just to be clear this is a metal pole in the ground with metal junction and circuit-breaker boxes attached to it. I didn't have access to the service panel to turn power off to the pedestal and not knowing what was inside I didn't want to start messing with it without first being able to do that.

Andy

[AndyA]

I've measured the surge protector resistances:

multimeter resistance = 0.1 Ohms
ground to ground = 0.1 Ohms
neutral to neutral = 0.1 Ohms
live to live = 0.1 Ohms
live to neutral = 452 kOhms
live to ground = infinite
neutral to ground = infinite

Live and neutral blades don't look separated to me.

Andy

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by AndyA

I've measured the surge protector resistances:

multimeter resistance = 0.1 Ohms
ground to ground = 0.1 Ohms
neutral to neutral = 0.1 Ohms
live to live = 0.1 Ohms
live to neutral = 452 kOhms
live to ground = infinite
neutral to ground = infinite

Live and neutral blades don't look separated to me.

Andy

OK, cool. Now can you measure the same things with it plugged in. Doesn't have to be to a 30 amp outlet, put a 20 amp adapter on it and plug it in to a good, working duplex outlet somewhere. Nothing connected to the RV side. measure there. Resistances look fine to me. The 452 K probably is measuring the internals switching power supply. Voltages and leads on a duplex are the same as on a 30 amp anyway.

[dave1650]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

OK, cool. Now can you measure the same things with it plugged in. Doesn't have to be to a 30 amp outlet, put a 20 amp adapter on it and plug it in to a good, working duplex outlet somewhere. Nothing connected to the RV side. measure there. Resistances look fine to me. The 452 K probably is measuring the internals switching power supply. Voltages and leads on a duplex are the same as on a 30 amp anyway.

I don't think he can measure resistance when surge protector is plugged into a hot outlet.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by dave1650

I don't think he can measure resistance when surge protector is plugged into a hot outlet.

Voltages...I meant the same "betweens." But perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Personally resistances don't do much for me.

[D W]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

OK...this is getting like "who is on first?"

No foolin'!, and now we find out that the OP is 400 miles away from the fault? This is insanity!

[AndyA]

Originally Posted by D W

No foolin'!, and now we find out that the OP is 400 miles away from the fault? This is insanity!

When I made my first post I was at the site. Don't you have anything constructive to add?

[Freebird2020]

Sounds like an issue with the surge protector. I would not use it until you can get somewhere that you can trust the power on the outlet you are connected to.

You could always dig into the power pedestal you are connected to and trace it back to the breaker panel to see if anything looks unusual. Like a loose neutral or something like that.

Surge protectors do fail.

Good luck.

[AndyA]

Thanks - I was supposed to be at a campsite now but my car engine started misfiring on the freeway. I will report back once I have checked out the surge protector at a good working pedestal. Hopefully in the next few days.

[AndyA]

Stayed at three different campgrounds - surge protector was fine, voltages were fine, no hot skin.

So it seems only one fault is needed for a hot skin? Otherwise where is the second fault?